finding the balance between 'friend &'authority'
 

particularly with older kids ..say 10-ish :shifty

scenario:

he's mad because he hates school work. he comes downstairs looking to lash out.
the phone rings..its my best friend.

he says (sarcastically) : Oh! see ya in a couple of hours.. (eyeroll)

me: excuse me..im a grown woman,and im allowed to talk on the phone anytime i like. its my own time im wasting. thats my decision to make. do not speak to me that way because you're angry about having to do school work.

of course..this just makes him more angry.so he stiffens his body all up,clenches his fists--gnashes teeth.and such..goes off to workwhilst teary eyed.

---ok---

this is very typical.
iask him towash his oatmealfixin'supplies after he makes breakfast..
he says: well,you dont always wash your stuff after you make oatmeal

me::hunh :hunh :scratch HELLOOOO..imthe only one that washes dishes. ever. so?

do you see whats going on here? he likens himself t be another adult in the house. he's always pointing out that he's a TWEEN!!! because the other kids are much younger.so-i kinda get that.

but somewhere along the way i wonder if i've set up our relationship to be off balance somehow...but. i dont know how.
im am really friendly with him. itell him my feelings about stuff. i feel like im really real with him.
i am really turned off by authoritarian parenting (obviously)- so i DON'T want a WE vs THEM atmosphere around here :no:no:no

but..is this normal? in homes like ours (GCMers) i wonder sometimes if the only reason why a kid would automatically *know* what to say and what not to say is strictly out of fear.kwim? i want -in the end- to have a wonderful atmosphere of communication where my children are not afraid to come to me and tell me that they're struggling in an area..or that they just.. have FEELINGS! i was never able to do that with my dad..so ikept it all in and kept alot of secrets (drugs and boys and such..)

but i also dont want my kids to think they can just speak however to me..does that make sense?
doesit just take time?or is it because i started out punitive with himand now he knows im trying to do things differently?

anyway. where is the balance? is there one?do youjust go all friend and hope that your obvious roll as 'the adult" speakes for itself?or what?


sorry. that was long :)

Re: finding the balance between 'friend &'authority'
 

FWIW, that isn't even how you would speak to a friend. :no
My 10 year old requires lots of reminders that she is to treat everyone with respect and that while I am a kind mother I am still mother and I have God given authority to guide and teach her. She doesn't like it but I figure it's just part of the growing process. The testing of boundaries and the eventual pulling away from under our authority to stand on their own as adults.

I also don't engage when my 10 year old decides to speak snark. :no
"you need to rinse your dish"
"you didn't rinse your dish!"
"You are responsible for you. Your responsibility is to rinse your dish."

It doesn't avoid the grumbling but it does stop the deflecting back to me and the snark.

Re: finding the balance between 'friend &'authority'
 

Commiseration :hug My 10yo dd does the same thing. I try very hard not to engage. I also remind her, often, that I am the mom and I can change decisions, make decisions, etc if I feel it is necessary. She doesn't have to like it. She does have to abide by it. (fwiw, I try not to change decisions often. She has a mind like a steel trap & if something is done one way once for one reason, it must always be done that way. :rolleyes)

Re: finding the balance between 'friend &'authority'
 

AHh, isn't it fun?? :banghead I've been dealing with this with C and he's not even ten for 3 more days. I try to be as calm as I can, but he knows I do *everything* around here, so he really doesn't have much of an argument. I just look at him and say "you're kidding me, right?" Probably not the best response, but it makes him think.

Re: finding the balance between 'friend &'authority'
 

I would address that the behavior is rude/inconsiderate and talk to him more about being honest about how he is feeling and why.

He's angry about homework, he doesn't want to do it and maybe wants to complain about it.

Maybe he came down to complain to you, you choose to talk on the phone instead of talking to him, he's offended/hurt/put off whatever and responds in an immature way. (Adults do this too in case you haven't had a chance to experience it.)

Looking back it's easy to respond.

You are a grown woman and you have many choices that he doesn't have. You will make many sacrifices that he will not have to make right now and maybe not ever.

Would it have been any different if you told your friend you would call her back and went and spoke to him then?

Sometimes snark is cover for something else.

Re: finding the balance between 'friend &'authority'
 

LOL. I know it's not funny but that is EXACTLY how my almost 10 yr old is, too, and is always on about the TWEEN thing, and sets herself up as better than me all.the.time. Sometimes I take the bait, on my better days I do not, and ignore her for the msot part.

Re: finding the balance between 'friend &'authority'
 

I don't think I can really be my kids' "friend" while they are still living under my roof. Friendly, kind, someone they can come to, yes. But "friend" implies mutual sharing and opening up, and my kids are not friends in that way. ETA: I share my feelings about certain things, especially as it relates to them and the interactions I have with them, but there are many things I would never share with them because they are children and don't need to be burdened with my worries and concerns.

Tweens can just be snarky. :yes

OTOH, I do try to keep certain hours where I can always give them my full attention. I do tell people that call during that time that I cannot talk then (or I turn down my phone and don't answer). It is not okay for him to talk to you like that, but after addressing that I would consider (in my own head) whether he had a point and whether I was sending a message I didn't want him to have if I would escape for an hour on the phone or computer during their learning time. If I want them to learn "work before play" then I should make sure I practice that, too. Kwim?

With the comments, I just continue to point out that I am the mom and they need to respect that. This is about right:

Re: finding the balance between 'friend &'authority'
 

Oh I remember those days with my oldest and dread them oncoming with DD. Sometimes kids just behave that way. DS hated schoolwork. Hated it. It was a battle and he came out whining about it all the time as well. Honestly I just shrugged and told him flat out I already paid my dues it's your turn now. One day you will be an adult and have the same freedom, (LOL as I write this he is 19 and lives on his own. ) There was not much left to say really. I had told him countless times that life is not full of fun and games and we all had to do things we hated.. Daddy hates going to work on beautiful days, I hate washing dishes, but it needs to be done. It never helped, what he really wanted was for me to sit down and do the work for him but that never happened. Yes he got snarky and rude. Most times I sent him to his room to act like that.:hugheart and remember this too shall pass and you will miss this one day.

Re: finding the balance between 'friend &'authority'
 

I think you could have let this go, and talked to him about it later (in a couple of hours)

Conversation A: "Did you ever notice that when you feel crummy about one thing, you tend to get sarcastic about lots of things? That happens to lots of people. It makes it hard for them to be polite and respectful... do you know that it happens to you sometimes?"

Conversation B: "You know, sometimes when kids your age are having upset feelings, they come looking for a parent, so they can tell someone about those feelings. That's one of the important things parents do for kids your age. So, because I know that, I bet it's extra frustrating when you are already frustrated, and you need me, and you come looking for me, and it turns out that I'm doing something and I'm not going to listen to you. Is that right? Do you have those feelings sometimes? -- OK then, you need something to say, something that's not rude (even though you are upset) that lets me know that you need me, and that it's important. Let's think of some ideas of what you could say."

I'd go with a simple, "That's true. Why did you want to tell me that?"

Then he'd be free to say, "Well, I don't know why I have to do things immediately when you get to do them whenever you want to."

Then you would be able to help him figure out why the world actually does work that way -- (a) because you do dishes as a major chore, so it's OK to save things up and do them all together when you are the person totally responsible for that chore, and (b) because oatmeal is a special arcane substance that turns to concrete if it's not dealt with immediately -- so, even when you aren't doing all the dishes right away, you do take care of any oatmeal right away.

This is GREAT! He's asking you all the time, "I notice that adult life seems great. I admire adults. I want to be one. Can you tell me how adult life works, how it differs from a child's life, and why?" -- This is the very basic road to maturity, stability and independence. There is absolutely no reason for you to resent answering these questions.

Not at all. It's just that he's recently crossed over into noticing that standards differ, and he'd like to know how and why (because he suspects that the 'why' might just be because adults are allowed to be bossy because they are large -- if you don't want him to believe that, answer his questions!) And, he immaturely thinks that he might prefer to live under the 'adult' scheme (because it looks good to him as an observer).

If you think he can handle a more adult scheme of freedom (use of his personal discretion) with responsibility, give him boatloads of responsibility and let him! If he can't, tell him why that's so.

Seriously, it would be an insult to his intelligence if you expected him to never notice that you don't actually follow all the rules you have invented for the benefit of small children.

That's what he is doing. He's telling you that he notices he doesn't have adult freedoms, that he's confused and struggling with that idea, and that he has feelings about that. It's OK!

The strategy at this age is to let the moment pass (never try to 'teach' an upset child) and later have a 'remember when this happened' conversation, tell him what he said, what it implied, and why it was offensive / unwise. Then brainstorm better ways of saying the same thing without whatever the problem was. Establish this as a strategy he *wants to use* -- then remind him in other similar moments by saying, "I think you mean to say <polite substitute phrase>, right?"

Re: finding the balance between 'friend &'authority'
 

How many opportunities does he have to get out his big-testosterone-fueled-energy? Things like yard work, stacking firewood (chopping it if capable), helping out with larger household tasks and building things?

Re: finding the balance between 'friend &'authority'
 

bolt. That was awesome! I printed it out for my own repeated perusal. Would it be ok if I shared with a friend who is struggling with similar stuff with her 10 yo ds?

Re: finding the balance between 'friend &'authority'
 

Yep, feel free to share.

Re: finding the balance between 'friend &'authority'
 

i actually didnt answer it.i talked with him insted. ( see..im a good gcm mamma :giggle)

i did tell him that i knew his 'tude was about being angry about school.

Re: finding the balance between 'friend &'authority'
 

:popcorn bolt, your explanation was super helpful! Thanks!

Re: finding the balance between 'friend &'authority'
 

For me, too! I was thinking my 10 year old is the only one whining and complaining and being snarky. It seemed so much easier when he was two! God please give us all the wisdom to know how to handle this!