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-   -   A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video (http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/community/showthread.php?t=449119)

katiekind 05-14-2012 05:26 PM

A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
 
On this video, a clip of which is on youtube, Gary Ezzo contrasts for his audience how they hold the value of obedience in a more urgent, effective way than the way their neighbors do, and that this is observable because the Ezzo child comes when called, but the neighbors' child does not. (This is one reason Ezzo is divisive--his teaching style involves constantly making these "our best case vs your worst case" comparisons.)

But what really caught my ear was the punchline in the comparison. He summed up that his audience holds the value of obedience with more urgency than their neighbors because "this value [obedience] represents God, so we better get this right in our home."

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why Ezzo's theology gets called into question.

gardenfreshmama 05-14-2012 05:42 PM

Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
 
:scratch I'm not even really sure what that MEANS. How, exactly, does the value of obedience represent God more so, than say... the value of kindness? Or the value of patience? Of joy, of LOVE? Why is there such an emphasis on obedience, when it's not even a fruit of the spirit?? :scratch

forty-two 05-14-2012 05:57 PM

Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gardenfreshmama (Post 4629961)
:scratch I'm not even really sure what that MEANS. How, exactly, does the value of obedience represent God more so, than say... the value of kindness? Or the value of patience? Of joy, of LOVE? Why is there such an emphasis on obedience, when it's not even a fruit of the spirit?? :scratch

Probably because, in Ezzo's theology, exhibiting the fruits of the Spirit is conditional on obedience - on our obeying God through the power the Spirit gives us :doh. So obedience is foundational to everything else.

As opposed to the idea that God is *love*, and the fruits of the Spirit flow from His love for us, that naturally spills over into our love for others. That what God does through us is indeed part of God's work in us :amen, not our work for God.

katiekind 05-14-2012 05:58 PM

Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
 
Quote:

I'm not even really sure what that MEANS.
I hear you. Ezzo is really big on the idea that children's obedience to their parents is a beacon that attracts the unsaved.

The problem -- one of the problems -- is that Christianity is not set apart from other religions by having a code of conduct, it is set apart from other religions by GRACE. While we were yet SINNERS Christ died for us, the righteous for the unrighteous. In that act, it was God who showed obedience, and his children who, although sinners, reaped the benefit. Ezzo's moralism is turned on its head in Christianity. :Bible2

Quote:

not our work for God.
Precisely.

SubarbanHippie 05-14-2012 06:01 PM

Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gardenfreshmama (Post 4629961)
:scratch I'm not even really sure what that MEANS. How, exactly, does the value of obedience represent God more so, than say... the value of kindness? Or the value of patience? Of joy, of LOVE? Why is there such an emphasis on obedience, when it's not even a fruit of the spirit?? :scratch

Because it's a convenient enough excuse for parents to use the Highest Power in the universe to shame, threaten or coerce their children and fashion them in the image of themselves rather than their Heavenly Father. Children can argue and fight their parents tooth and nail when they give, "because I said so!" as a reason, but what can a child say when they're told, "because God said so!" Some parents are so convinced that if a child cannot simply obey their parents, how will they ever be able to obey an unseen God? The Bible admonishes children to honor their parents. Titus 2 admonishes the older women to teach the younger women to love their husbands and children, not force their obedience.

Not to mention, oftentimes what these people consider obedience is really parents who like to arbitrarily bark commands of "jump!" at their children just to see if their kids will respond with, "how high?" It's not obedience that keeps the children out of danger or keeps them healthy. It's just control and dominance to prove something to society.

GraemesMomma 05-14-2012 06:01 PM

Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
 
Forgive me as I repeat, verbatim, a song sung at times daily in my chapel, growing up:

Obedience is
the very best way
To show that you believe!
Doing exactly
what the Lord commands;
Doing it happily.

Walking in the light
Keeping our attitudes right;
Joy you will receive.

O. B. E. D. I. E. N. C. E.

Obedience iiiisss
the Very Best Way
To show that you believe!

:yuck :banghead
And I wonder why I have issues with relating to God :doh

katiekind 05-14-2012 06:04 PM

Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
 
:banghead

forty-two 05-14-2012 06:06 PM

Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GraemesMomma (Post 4630007)
Forgive me as I repeat, verbatim, a song sung at times daily in my chapel, growing up:

Obedience is
the very best way
To show that you believe!
Doing exactly
what the Lord commands;
Doing it happily.

Walking in the light
Keeping our attitudes right;
Joy you will receive.

O. B. E. D. I. E. N. C. E.

Obedience iiiisss
the Very Best Way
To show that you believe!

:yuck :banghead
And I wonder why I have issues with relating to God :doh

:banghead

Dh thinks that song should be burned. I think we should kill it with fire :shifty.

Or perhaps we should nuke it from orbit - it's the only way to be sure ;).

:hugheart

Tengokujin 05-14-2012 06:33 PM

Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by katiekind (Post 4629997)
Christianity is not set apart from other religions by having a code of conduct, it is set apart from other religions by GRACE. While we were yet SINNERS Christ died for us, the righteous for the unrighteous. In that act, it was God who showed obedience, and his children who, although sinners, reaped the benefit.


And THAT, above, is beautiful. Should be a random quote thingy.:clap:heart

hey mommy 05-14-2012 06:38 PM

Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GraemesMomma (Post 4630007)
Forgive me as I repeat, verbatim, a song sung at times daily in my chapel, growing up:

Obedience is
the very best way
To show that you believe!
Doing exactly
what the Lord commands;
Doing it happily.

Walking in the light
Keeping our attitudes right;
Joy you will receive.

O. B. E. D. I. E. N. C. E.

Obedience iiiisss
the Very Best Way
To show that you believe!

:yuck :banghead
And I wonder why I have issues with relating to God :doh

My MIL would LOVE LOVE LOVE that song! I hope she's never heard it.

ArmsOfLove 05-14-2012 06:40 PM

Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GraemesMomma (Post 4630007)
Forgive me as I repeat, verbatim, a song sung at times daily in my chapel, growing up:

Obedience is
the very best way
To show that you believe!
Doing exactly
what the Lord commands;
Doing it happily.

Walking in the light
Keeping our attitudes right;
Joy you will receive.

O. B. E. D. I. E. N. C. E.

Obedience iiiisss
the Very Best Way
To show that you believe!

:yuck :banghead
And I wonder why I have issues with relating to God :doh

dh and ds1 asked what I was moaning about so I read them this song. Ds1 wants to know if they were into mind control ;)

personally I'm left :sick

GraemesMomma 05-14-2012 06:45 PM

Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove (Post 4630086)
dh and ds1 asked what I was moaning about so I read them this song. Ds1 wants to know if they were into mind control ;)

personally I'm left :sick

Sadly? Absolutely, yes :yes4

Tengokujin 05-14-2012 06:52 PM

Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
 
The song is another shining example of teaching "the Bible" in a way that manipulates our children into being convenient for us. Same as manipulating Bible stories to ultimately teach something not in the text.:(

The idea of the song is not that bad--IF it was applied to adults in relating to God. If we take a mature understanding of what it is to obey God,yeah, it's a pretty good way to show that you believe. But it's pure manipulation for children who hear from all sides how obeying parents and all adults is imperative to be pleasing to God and look like good little Christians.:(

SubarbanHippie 05-14-2012 06:57 PM

Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
 
One thing I just thought of, as I was sitting here pondering why some Christian parents assume if their children won't obey them, they will never obey God. As an adult, who has experienced God's grace numerous times in my life, I know that when God asks something of me, it's absolutely for my own good and to the benefit of the Gospel. It doesn't mean it won't be uncomfortable or that it would never put my life in danger, but I know God's motives are always pure and with my eternal soul in mind. I cannot say the same for any other human being. Even if a parent isn't being deliberately malicious toward their children, the parenting methods they employ or the standards they expect their children to live up might not exactly be for the benefit of the children. They might believe it is, but is what they expect of their children really beneficial, or does it more so serve their need for convenience?

katiekind 05-14-2012 07:18 PM

Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
 
You packed a lot of good things to think about in that paragraph, MrsJacks.


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