A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

I don't know if I have stated this outright before, but after learning that the Biblical Hebrew concept of an infant is up till age 5 I have made a conscious effort to expect less of my children and avoid "you ought to know better". While I would never tell my children they are babies and I encourage their growing up, it is amazing how much more smoothly life runs when I realize just how young even a 4 year old is.

I find it fascinating that National Association for the Education of Young Children (NAEYC) calls children "Young children" till they reach 8 and essentially asserts that we should treat 5-6-7 year olds as we do preschoolers. The funny thing is that at 8, I declared myself a big kid without knowing that someone else already defined that age as a cut off.

So going a step further I see that acknowledging them at 4 as really still being babyish helps me show much more grace and reminds me to not have them grow up as fast. And for some reason at 5 they almost instantly gain the maturity of a "young child."

(That is why I had the chorus of "Let Them Be Little" in my siggy for a long time.)

Anyway I wanted to share some reasons I found viewing them as babies (but not treating them like babies) to be helpful:

* I do not get angry at potty accidents
* I expect that there will be messes and food dropped
* I realize that they need help with anything that requires responsibility (like cleaning up)
* I don't get as frustrated with tears and tantrums
* I allow them to be clingy when they need to be
* I don't feel the need to push them to their own bed if they are not ready
* I remember that they cannot do a lot of things and I cant get frustrated for them needing assistance
* I don't criticise them for being selfish - they will grow out of it
* I don't worry about their lack of independence
* I don't care if they don't want to engage in activities without a parent there


I could go on.

And while maturity is gradual I think there is also some validity of not expecting real maturity to emerge till 13. This is another milestone age I have seen (in others' kids ) as being significant.

(Edit: My oldest will be thirteen soon and I am seeing that difference emerge.)

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

wow, thank you so much for that post!

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

:clap

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

Thank you for this post, Heather!!

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

:clap :heart love it!

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

Thank you so much...I plan to come back to this. :think

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

You are welcome and thanks for the nice words.
(I actually expected criticism :shifty)

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

Extremely insightful. Fits right in with what I believe about delayed academics and unschooling as well.

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

:tu My good friend and I were just talking about this recently (the Jewish idea of "infants" being birth to five). :)

Puts a new frame on your parenting, I think. :)

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

Absolutely :yes

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

I love it. And it's hard for me to remember, so I"m glad for the reminder. :)

It's in line with Waldorf beliefs too, where the child is seen as in a dreamy, childlike phase until the loss of their baby teeth, which happens around the age of 6-7. At that point, there are certain brain developments happening that signal their readiness to begin schooling.

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

:rockon

I've found this to be very helpful for me as well - although, personally, I noticed a HUGE difference in maturity at 7. It was as if a switch flipped with my older two on their 7th birthday. :)

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

I've thought this way ever since I got my credential in early childhood- it was ages 0 to 6 years.

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

wow thank you... very true!!

any links/starting places to study the hebrew word for child/infant etc????

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

I know someone has a link to Samuel Martin's book "Spare the Rod"--I think it's posted in GD

I talk about this more in my second book Grace-Based Living

I do find it much more loving to think of my children as "babies" until age 6. 5 is a great big transition from preschooler to kid and then there is a huge maturity surge with my children around age 8 (they change at 7 but not as much as at 8 :yes)

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

I have seen this with my own 7yo too -even though he is still less mature than his peers. But he had a "switch" 5 as well.

So Crystal. You would say a 5 yo is still an "infant" as well? I think I have seen instant maturity jumps at a few birthdays. I just know that for DD is was *very* important for me to embrace her immaturity and I had an silent mantra "She is still a baby" almost all year. Now at 5 she is already blossoming

And just to show I didn't imagine the age 8 thing:

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

Yes--it's most assuredly time to protect and transition into teaching. I've come to find that transitioning from primarily teaching to focusing on correction is better from 8 to 12 and then turning over to natural consequences is the adolescent years :yes

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

So then using our familiar words - C would be a "toddler" with 5 being that transition age

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

coming back

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

:ty4 for this reminder! :yes

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

this is awesome!

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

Thanks for writing that all out. :heart

I do have an understanding of it, but sometimes I get caught up in unrealistic expectations, or allow myself to become angry or frustrated over little accidents.

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

Just thinking more on this- I think this also goes along with a higher "age of accountability" that goes well with brain development research.

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

True. I love CEF for their heart, but I think sometimes they try too hard with kids that are just too young

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

It reminded me of something else from Crystal's Biblical Parenting. She talks about toddlers/preschoolers being in an in-between stage of needing to have all needs met (infancy), and a teaching stage.

When a preschooler (or even early elementary age child) is having a good day, then we lean more to the teaching side with letting them experience some appropriate natural consequences. Conversely, if the child is having a "bad" or difficult day, you would lean more toward the infancy model of meeting most of their needs (babying them in an age-appropriate way ;)).

I know this thinking has helped me to show grace to my preschooler many times I otherwise would have grown frustrated and/or punitive.

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

That's a really great way to look at it, and so true :yes. I've noticed a HUGE change in my middle daughter since she turned 6. It's like someone turned a light switch. My 4 y/o is still very little and it's really helpful to think of it this way.

I too noticed a big BIG change when my oldest turned 7.

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

That's what I love about Ilana's teacher. She is always saying, "they're just so little still" :heart Her Kindergarten teacher was always pushing them and expecting more out of them. I couldn't get her to understand the fact that they haven't been around that long and it's all still so new to them.

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

Interesting! I was actually gonna post a question about if kids can be advanced physically, verbally & mentally, but still babies emotionally. I think thas wut my kids R, and I know I need to remind myself that just cuz they talk, act and move like older kids, they R still very little ones. It is hard 2 remember sometimes tho, when they R capable of something one day, and suddenly act as if they're not on another day. :giggle

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

:heart This is the greatest thread.

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

:hug Thank you for that post. I find that at 4 suddenly the little things like messes and potty misses upset me. Yet, when you look at them at 4 they still are so little. :heart

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

good points. Thanks for sharing! :heart

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

one thought I wanted to add . . . I was in an online discussion with a woman years ago on the MOPS board discussing spanking and she at one point said, "So you're saying that all the things I work so hard to spank out of them before the age of 5 I should just put up with?" and I answered, 'I'm saying that by the age of 5, whether you spank or not, most children will have naturally grown out of those things. Spanking has nothing to do with them stopping--it's maturity.'

I still get people contacting me from that thread ;)

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

I have been thinking about and struggling with this concept a lot the last few weeks. :yes2
In our case, I have to not only view them as much younger, but in some areas tactfully treat them as much younger. Because of our 6yo's history, her emotional, behavioral development is only the level of an average 2yo. I have found that we have a lot less trauma moments if I keep her in the same room with me at all times, like I would a young toddler. The 4, 5 and even 2 yo don't require the stricter boundaries and extreme supervision. It's hard not letting her know I am treating her like a baby, when she can see the others have more freedom. :tired :badhair Sadly, when I let her have more space, she is immediately into things that are not appropriate. Yesterday she went in the barn, which is "off limits", and spilled 2 gals of gas/oil mix for the chainsaw on herself and the 2yo.
The hard part of setting safe limits is that what would work for a child her emotional age, doesn't work for a child her physical age. she has learned to open most safety latches and even how to unlock doors with a screwdriver or bobbypins. :banghead

Sorry this got long, hopefully it is fitting in subject. I am trying to type with tantrumming 5 & 6 yo on the floor next to me. they were fighting over the 2 yo's chair and sunglasses. They decided they like hers better than their own. :hunh :shrug

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

Wow, Heather, that's quite a transforming thought! :rockon I'll definitely have to share this with DH.

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

Tay, special needs children need to be treated according to their developmental age, not their actual age. Just like preemies for the first few years need to be compared to their actual age and not adjusted age. That makes it all harder--but IME having a special needs child made it even more real how much up to age 5 they were just little ones. When a 4yo is acting like a 4yo it's frustrating--when a 10yo is acting like a 4yo it's sad :(

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

Where did you learn that??!! I would like to share it but I need to be able to "prove" it :yes

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

So, yesterday I was listening to the director of my school talk on brain development- and I will paraphrase what she said- (next week when I get the chance to talk to her more - I will get more research to back this up.)

As an infant grows the brains two hemespheres start forming connections- these connections make it possible to integrate information and create complex thoughts- these connections are not "mature" until the age of 7-10. So she was saying that until these connections are made- we a) need to expect that children won't always be able to access information we think they know b) need to be their connections for them by modeling and coaching
She also pointed out how countries that don't start formal schooling until this age have 100% literacy rates.

Taking it a step further- she says that the frontal lobe- which is where logic, and impulse control is, does not fully integrate into the brian until 21-25 years of age.

I was just :clap that her talk went right with this thread.

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

Wow!! I have been having a difficult time with my 4 yr old (almost 5 in November) testing boundaries everyday several times a day in a very loud way..She has always been passionate but for the most part we will have a good day following a more challenging day. This thread helped me ALOT!!! I am trying to remain consistent but don't always have the back up with DH. I have 2 specific questions....I am wondering if anyone has had a little one who like to play with the tp as they are going potty. She will make things with the tp and she has clogged the toilet a couple times. I explained that it could break the potty and it's wasting what we have been given ect.. I had to take the tp and only give her a little bit while she is in there. If she needs more than she is to ask for it, or help from me if she needs it..(wiping the poo) I hope I'm handling this right. She is also insisting she is to be called by whatever animal or character that she is pretending to be for the day, and gets mad at me if I forget what she has decided to "be" for the day... please know she changes her character a few times a day...Is this level of pretend play normal?

Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5
 

I copied the OP in my word processor & Dana's post on brain development.

Heather - what studies/books are there that explains the Hebrew thought about infants-5yrs old are still babies?

Does anyone know of a good scientific/intellectual book on toddler brain development?