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Title: Aggression
Post by: mummy2boys on March 29, 2005, 04:35:24 AM
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Okay I posted before about anger problems we were having with out kids...well it has escalated the last week or so and we are not sure what to do.
I implemented the comfort corner but they wouldn't go willingly and when we took them we had to practically sit on them to get them to stay there (we didn't actually sit on them
) Then they would leave the chair and do the same thing again. They have both started to hit me which we have explained it wrong and why but it doesn't seem to be getting through. I thought maybe they weren't getting enough "outside" time to run off some steam iykwim but that doesn't seem to have changed anything either. The youngest (4.5 yrs) also seems to be really clingy atm when he is not shouting or hitting me or running amok. He goes from placid to hyper in about 10 seconds flat. I have eatched his diet as he is a coeliac but he hasn't had anything he shouldn't have as far as I know
Am I expecting too much to soon or is there anything else I could try
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Title: Re: Aggression
Post by: greenemama on March 29, 2005, 07:20:50 AM
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i've got a very aggressive 2.5 yo boy. i think part of it is just "boy." not that that excuses it, but i think it helps explain some of it.
there are some ways to get out that aggressive energy. i let henry beat things around in his room with pillows. i tell him to "hit the pillow" or something like that instead of hitting mommy or something he shouldn't be beating on. he just wants to beat on stuff. it's stressing exhausting!
lots of wrestling, not just with dad, but with me. he likes to be held down and to have to try to get out of it.
because he's so aggressive he often hurts jude (9.5 mo). so i've been doing some of the "you hit, you sit" in the comfort chair or another chair or stool if we're not close to the chair. he is allowed to have his "baby" (his hippo gary) and that's it. if i give him books or things that are otherwise relaxing he's throwing the books or beating on the floor with them. ugh. at first i've had to sit with him, but that ends up in a bear hug since he's not cuddling or anything gentle, mostly hitting and flailing. but we've phased into having him sit alone and i'm AMAZED that when he's ready for me to come and sit with him (i'm always right there, a few feet away, waiting for him to relax) that he's totally gentle with me and volunatarily apologetic. then he gets up and is much more relaxed.
i've also noticed that the aggression has dropped A LOT since we put away movies that are really aggressive. he loved the spiderman movies but they're too violent, i think, so we put them away and he begs to watch them some days but we don't do it and i think he just plays better overall since he hasn't had those influences. more pooh, dora and richard scarry.
honestly, it's soooo much better. live and learn.
and food-wise i've been trying to feed him a really good whole grain and protein breakfast to give him a full tummy without sugar and i believe that this has helped too (thanks to palil's thread on good breakfasts!
. and lots of snacks during the day so that he's not running on empty. being proactive with the food thing has helped minimize both crazy aggressive behavior and major meltdowns.
last night i thought he'd be more mellow since we spent about three house outside climbing and running around. of course not. ugh.
anyhow, that's the only advice i have. i'll be watching this thread, tho.
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Title: Re: Aggression
Post by: palil on March 29, 2005, 01:24:07 PM
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Ditto on cutting back sugar and being more choosy about movies. We've put away all the ones that refer to killing something or someone... (which is almost EVERY Disney movie) or even use the word, b/c ds started saying he was going to kill me when he got mad. I let him know why we were putting them away.
Your post sorta sounded like this has started all of a sudden, or at least intensified recently. Can you identify any triggers or recent changes in your life that might be causing this? Stuff that contributes to my boys' aggression is Mommy being too busy, Mommy being pre-occupied or upset about something and carrying a chip on my shoulder through the day
, Daddy being upset or more punitive than usual, Daddy being gone a lot, a disorganized house, too many or too disorganized toys, etc. We are also working S-L-O-W-L-Y toward implementing more structure into our days. This is particularly hard b/c it all falls to me (dh doesn't really participate in a predictable manner with our day to day activities) and I am pretty laid back. :/ BUT.. I think my oldest son, especially, would benefit from it... having them involved in predictable activities more might prevent the boredom and frustration that so frequently results in aggressive behaviors.
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Title: Re: Aggression
Post by: 4blessings on March 29, 2005, 01:31:46 PM
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Quote
thanks to palil's thread on good breakfasts!
Is that on this board or the old one? If it's on this one, doesn anyone have a link? I'd love to read that thread! Thanks!
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Title: Re: Aggression
Post by: palil on March 30, 2005, 05:46:20 AM
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http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...p?topic=2138.0
I assume Greenemama is talking about this thread from the vegan/vetetarian forum.
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Title: Re: Aggression
Post by: greenemama on March 30, 2005, 06:21:20 AM
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yes, that's the one.
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Title: Re: Aggression
Post by: ArmsOfLove on March 30, 2005, 10:17:11 AM
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Also, it's quite possible that in cutting out punishments you've gone permissive. It's a balance to stop punishing without giving the idea that the standard for expected behavior is lowered. Can you describe how a situation might have gone before when there wasn't this anger/aggression issue? And how the same situation would look now? That will help me respond. Thanks.
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Title: Re: Aggression
Post by: mummy2boys on March 30, 2005, 11:46:00 PM
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Okay I will give it a try Crystal
In church they have been mucking up alot so I told them that if they mucked up I would give them 3 warnings (for big things...not for asking a q or anything) I told them if they persisted I would take them out until the service was over. So......I warned and they kept it up so I took them out, sat them both down and asked them to tell me why we had to go out. They told me (being loud, throwing things
) and what I had told them so I KNEW they had heard me iykwim. They were still shouting at me and telling me they didn't like me etc so I said that after the service we would not be staying for morning tea (was this the right thing to do??????
)
Anyway, we went back into church when it finished and I told my DH that we were leaving and why (he was in a separte car as he was playing his guitar) and my 6.5 yr old said "NO WE AREN"T" and then punched me in the back
I just took him by the hand, led him out (all the while my face was red and I was
and I drove home in silence as they were calling me names and telling me I was mean mummy etc. I told them to get out of their good clothes then go sit on a chair each and calm down before we spoke about it.
I hope that helps Crystal.....I am trying to let them know I mean business when I say things but its kinda like they are trying to get a reaction from me...maybe to see if I will smack them???!!!???
Would be interested to see what you think and THANK YOU to everyone who replied. AM off to read the link about food as well. Thanks for that too.
Most days I feel like I am
but I will keep at it.
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Title: Re: Aggression
Post by: ArmsOfLove on March 31, 2005, 04:35:24 PM
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Quote from: mummy2boys on March 30, 2005, 11:46:00 PM
Okay I will give it a try Crystal
thanks--it helps but there are also more questions
Quote
In church they have been mucking up alot so I told them that if they mucked up I would give them 3 warnings (for big things...not for asking a q or anything) I told them if they persisted I would take them out until the service was over. So......I warned and they kept it up so I took them out, sat them both down and asked them to tell me why we had to go out. They told me (being loud, throwing things
) and what I had told them so I KNEW they had heard me iykwim. They were still shouting at me and telling me they didn't like me etc so I said that after the service we would not be staying for morning tea (was this the right thing to do??????
)
Do you have specific "rules" for church behavior? Did you remind then before the service? Were they able to sit through service before or has this always been an issue and you're just trying to address it better? At the point where we were out of the service and I was being yelled at we'd have gone to the car and I'd have called dh on his cell phone after the service to let him know we'd gone home. If they were able to sit in service before then I'd make sure to set up staying and being successful both as the expectation and the goal. Especially at 6 I might set up the logical consequence of a no answer for the next requested movie at home (about the same time as sitting through most services and ironically children can sit through a movie but not church
). I'd have a family meeting to discuss this problem and get their input, but make sure the final decision about what will be done is yours. They might come up with writing sentences about cooperation (great for homeschooled kids
), or apologizing to the pastor for being disruptive during his service--there are lots of things that brainstorming might come up with that would be appropriate
If they have never been able to sit through service then you can either accept this and make going out not a big deal and/or work on this during the week. Some moms have done "practice church" where they increase the amount of time they sit and either listen to a tape of the pastor or watch a service on tv or read the Bible, etc. Also, is there something they could be doing instead at that time? Child classes? We don't have them during the service, but many churches do. Would that be a more appropriate place for them at this stage?
Quote
Anyway, we went back into church when it finished and I told my DH that we were leaving and why (he was in a separte car as he was playing his guitar) and my 6.5 yr old said "NO WE AREN"T" and then punched me in the back
I just took him by the hand, led him out (all the while my face was red and I was
and I drove home in silence as they were calling me names and telling me I was mean mummy etc. I told them to get out of their good clothes then go sit on a chair each and calm down before we spoke about it.
That would send me over the top. What did your dh do? I think under the circumstances you handled it well--you got everyone out of there and calmed down. What happened when you talked about it? Did he ever apologize? I would have grabbed him by the arm and marched him to the car and told him something to the effect of, "You will NOT hit me." But I think part of what fueled this was him feeling like he failed and was getting punished by not staying for tea (not that that makes this okay!)
Quote
I hope that helps Crystal.....I am trying to let them know I mean business when I say things but its kinda like they are trying to get a reaction from me...maybe to see if I will smack them???!!!???
It does get worse before it gets better and they may be trying to do that. Have you tried asking them in the moment? When they get going I might stop and ask, "Are you trying to see how much it will take for me to smack you? Are you trying to see if I'm serious about not spanking?" And see waht they say.
Are there times when they aren't aggressive? When they do cooperate? What is different about those times?
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Title: Re: Aggression
Post by: mummy2boys on April 02, 2005, 02:50:02 AM
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Sitting through church has always been an issue for them.....they just seem to be getting louder lately and it kind of feels like "Well, what are you going to do if I shout, throw stuff" etc IYKWIM.
They usually go out for Sunday School after 15 minutes in church but this was Good Friday so no SS....maybe that made a difference
I thought about making them apologise to those around us who they disturbed so I will do this next time
We might practise the sitting for a bit I think. Just they can both sit through chapel at school...hmmmm....maybe cos that is geared towards kids?????
Okay, me not letting them stay for morning tea probably did attribute to his anger...what could I have done then??? any suggestions???? Dh didn't say much as he was with someone and I didn't want to make a big deal of it.
I was approached by the pastors wife on Sunday who said she noticed I had a problem with my kids behaviour and felt she needed to let me know about it (like I hadn't already noticed!!!!) and she suggested I read some books called "Babywise"
Naturally I said no and explained why and ever since then I feel like I am being watched and being judged and I am feeling very uncomfortable about going to church tomorrow
Well I hope that helps more and I would love any more suggestions
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Title: Re: Aggression
Post by: ArmsOfLove on April 02, 2005, 09:54:32 AM
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Quote
making them apologise
I wouldn't make them apologize--I'd suggest it as a kind thing to do since they disrupted service for those around them. Some children will be overwhelmed and embarrassed by apologizing, but might want to color a card during the week for someone they've bothered and give it to them the next week.
about the pastor's wife offering Babywise--that would creep me out
As for the tea . . . remember the goal is to help them feel good so they will act good. If you didn't think that their behavior would improve then I'd go home; if getting them out of a place where they had to be quiet and still helped them to calm down then I'd go over the rules for the tea and let them know we would try and if they could be successful we would stay.
Remember that punishments are *re*active but GBD is *pro*active--always thinking "how can I help them be successful at this?"
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Title: Re: Aggression
Post by: greenemama on April 02, 2005, 11:44:50 AM
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your pastor's wife was out of line. if my pastor's wife said that to me she would be bombarded with information on punitive parenting, specifically the ezzos, and especially babywise, faster than she could "notice" a problem with my kiddos. that's totally judgemental for her to say that. how close is your relationship to her? if you are good friends, than i suppose it would be different. if she's just trying to meddle, she's out of line.
hugs about feeling judged. i feel that way every sunday. my kids (both now!) are the only children in church who cannot stay. noises from kids are tolerated and kids are pretty much required to be in the service (no other place for them to go unless i go with). henry (almost 3) would be screaming loudly, though, not just making little noises. it is frustrating and every sunday we leave feeling grumpy because we feel like everyone is wondering why i'm not switch training henry at home.
not everyone, but some. including the pastor's wife.
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Title: Re: Aggression
Post by: mummy2boys on April 03, 2005, 03:18:07 AM
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Mollie ~ We are not "close" friends with the pastor or his wife iykwim......I think some of the probs are my 2 are "real" boys (they fidget, are noisy, like bugs etc etc etc) whereas her two children (one of each) are very quiet...they have NEVER had to be taken out of church and they are very quiet and rarely get spoken to about bad behaviour......I don't have a problem with that but EVERY child is different and I feel really judged....so much so that as the kids were clowning around this morning I decided not to take them to church. I don't want to be watched all the time kwim????
Crystal ~ Good tips...thank you as always
I will not "make" them apologise but help them to realise that others are affected and see if maybe next time they can come up with a good way to apologise (for want of a better word) in their own way.
You ladies are AWESOME.....Thank you for patiently guiding me through this and helping me see where I have got it wrong, where I can come up with better ideas, and how to graciously ask for help
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