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Title: need instant consequcnce for hitting momma
Post by: amytug on June 14, 2005, 09:14:50 PM
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kara has just started this thing where we will be nicely getting over something dramatic in our day ( discipline) and she will kindof walk in a circle like she has no clue what to do w/ herself, an then hit me. like a light slap, but that' snot the point. I am disapointed. I'm sure this is because this is what I've been doing lately, but I dont know. she has also been doing it to her sister. she was never a hitter.. I need to know something to do quickly. I dont know if iw anna HUG her fort his, I'm afraid that might be reinforcing the hitting? Am I wrong ya think? what should I do immediately after htis happens?
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Title: Re: need instant consequcnce for hitting momma
Post by: salt_light on June 14, 2005, 09:44:42 PM
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I don't know, but maybe a quick, "hey honey, we don't hit." In a nice voice, maybe gently take her hand or rub her back real quick to demonstrate her "nice" touches. I'm really big on using touch as a way of connecting or affirming though. HTH
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Title: Re: need instant consequcnce for hitting momma
Post by: crunchymum on June 14, 2005, 10:43:36 PM
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Quote
I don't know, but maybe a quick, "hey honey, we don't hit."
see, the prob with this is, right now you *do* hit...
you're right, she's probably modeling your behavior. (and truly i say this in the most loving, btdt way!)
ds is almost 3. he's alot more verbal than he used to be, but he still can't communicate everything in his brain, so he hits. age appropriate, i believe, but as crystal always says, *not* appropriate, kwim? we're working on this. when i first stopped spanking dd, it was hard for me to get out of the habit. i slipped up alot.
one day i sat down with her and said "e, mama is so sorry for hitting you. hitting is never ok. hitting hurts. we are going to try really hard to only use gentle touches in this family...." something like that. in a sense, i was bringing dd in on it, to help me stay accountable. i made mistakes after that day, and it broke my heat when she would remind me of our talk " mama, why did you hit me? we only use gentle touches!"
but it slowly got into my thick brain....
anyway, that was kind of OT...
i don;t think you have to be all lovey dovey "oh honey that's ok that you hit"..... "hitting hurts. it's not ok to hit. you feel angry/sad/bad about x. you may hit a pillow or the couch, you may stomp your feet (do an angry dance, whatever) but you may not hit people." with ds, i usually say"hitting hurts! are you sorry you hit?" i wait for him to respond. if he says yes, i ask him to make it right. right now that looks like him giving gentle touches or a hug, if the person wants it.
i think some have implemented "you hit, you sit", but i haven't figured out how to use that non-punitively.... maybe someone else will have better advice on that....
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Title: Re: need instant consequcnce for hitting momma
Post by: J3K on June 15, 2005, 06:24:39 AM
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My my kids all started the hitting mom routine , and each did at one point.... all it took was a calm gentle talk from their Dad.
He said " when I leave at the beginning of the day I expect you will help to take care of my wife and not hurt her. I want to know I'm leaving her in good kind hands. With kids who will treat her properly. "
I think the switch from "your mom" to "my wife" is what helped.
and then he'd talk with me...."honey I don't know what you expect from them. They see the course of action you take when you are angry (spanking) and when they get angry....they are bound to do the same thing. You have to model different behavior if you want different behavior. "
Then he'd rub my back and feed my ice cream.
aha.
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Title: Re: need instant consequcnce for hitting momma
Post by: kris10s on June 15, 2005, 06:41:40 AM
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A thought on "you hit, you sit" -- maybe hitting can be an automatic trip to the comfort corner, no matter who does it. If you swat, you sit, if she swats, she sits. I would appreciate the time to think it over and see what I could have done differently.
But, Dayna and Kara have to not kill each other while you are there, which may not work, to be honest.
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Title: Re: need instant consequcnce for hitting momma
Post by: greenemama on June 15, 2005, 07:34:03 AM
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sometimes "you hit, you sit" feels punitive to me. i don't know if it's just me or if it's punitive.
so discerning, i know.
it looks like this. henry hits the baby. i say, "we do not hit in this house! you need to sit." and i take him to the comfort chair. the first reason he has to hit is so that i can tend to the baby without henry swiping at him again or screaming at me or whatever. everyone needs space so everyone gets it. the second reason is so that henry can regroup. he knows that the comfort chair is comforting when we use it for meltdowns or just to reconnect. he has books, he has a blanket, it's not a "bad" place to be.
others will probably have actual advice. perhaps this is more an explanation of how we (try) to use "you hit, you sit" in a non-punitive way.
i like kristen's suggestion, too.
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Title: Re: need instant consequcnce for hitting momma
Post by: crunchymum on June 15, 2005, 07:37:55 AM
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i really need a comfort corner.... mollie, don't you call yours the 'thinking chair"? i think that's so cute....
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Title: Re: need instant consequcnce for hitting momma
Post by: lenswyf on June 15, 2005, 07:51:53 AM
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Amy, please feel free to correct me if I am mis-understanding what you are doing when you say that you "swat". I have defined what I think you're saying in my response -- if I'm wrong, please say so.
I suspect there is truth in the idea that the kids have seen this be your response when you are angry. I would see part of the remedy to be asking your children for forgiveness. Anger at your children for doing childish things is something that we should all be striving to overcome and asking their forgiveness for. Yes, they did something wrong -- but our response should not be anger. We are the grown-ups. When they make a mistake, we should be teaching them what the right path is, not just reacting.
Then I would ask them for forgiveness for swatting. There are many people who consider swatting and spanking to be the same thing, but there are many who would make a distinction between the two. Spanking comes with a forewarning -- "If you throw the ball inside the house, you will get a spanking". The idea is that when they have been told that the consequence for an act will be a spanking, but they throw the ball anyway, they have made an informed choice and the consequence is warranted. The parent does not need to be angry because, in a sense, it's a business transaction. They aren't spanked on the first offence because maybe they didn't know it was wrong; they are only spanked after they have been informed that the action is wrong and the consequence is spanking.
Swatting in anger is a reaction. It's not planned, there is no warning, and it tends not to be rooted in any thought of what is right and wrong -- the parent just doesn't like what the child is doing. In families I've known who used this method to indicate their disapproval, the children ultimately gave up even trying to do the right thing because they couldn't figure out what the right thing was. And eventually, the cost to the relationship between the parents and children was very high.
Anyway, by showing your children that you understand that you were wrong in the example you set (which you will do if you ask their forgiveness), I think you will help them see that it is wrong for them as well. (When I say "asking for forgiveness," I'm referring to asking them to "please forgive me for". It's not the same as saying "I'm sorry", which simply states the condition of your conscience. It's asking them to actively make a decision of "I forgive you" or "I don't forgive you".)
Of course, the goal here is to move from a reactionary mode (swatting) to a training mode (GBD), not to a punitive mode (spanking, timeouts, etc.) It can be very helpful for children to see that their parents make mistakes, too, and to be working together to learn to do the "right things". You can encourage one another toward success, comfort one another when you fail, and in the end, be closer because you are on the same team, not at war with one another.
Have you thought about the comfort corner idea?
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Title: Re: need instant consequcnce for hitting momma
Post by: amytug on June 15, 2005, 09:09:14 AM
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have I thought about he CC idea.. Yes, I have, and I like it, BUT. I dont really know where to do it, etc. Our house is cramped.. Would a couch be okay. I mean that seems like an awful big place full of roaming area for a CC. I dunno, dont really have much of a nook for her. That is waht I really want. she does have a small recliner, but .. I dunno, I wanna make it fun for her, etc.
*sigh* When I get the idear.. LOL
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Title: Re: need instant consequcnce for hitting momma
Post by: Radosny Matka on June 15, 2005, 01:30:20 PM
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She probably doesn't know what to do with herself so she hits you. Try interceding when you see her start going into that circle before she hits you.
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Title: Re: need instant consequcnce for hitting momma
Post by: ArmsOfLove on June 15, 2005, 06:00:54 PM
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I would also sit her down at a neutral time and simply tell her, outright, you will no longer allow her to hit you. And if she's walking around like that after an encounter then try hugging her before she gets a chance to swipe at you.
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Title: hurting his brother!
Post by: greenemama on June 14, 2005, 02:30:06 PM
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henry (3) has started pinching and pushing and slapping jude (1). i'm totally horrified at jude's pinch marks on his back and arms, from two brief moments near henry. so far i'm not getting ANYTHING done around here because i have to keep the two separated. it's so frustrating!
i've asked him "why?"
i've been more strict about "you hit, you sit," mainly for my own sanity in dealing with the crying baby.
i've engaged them both in play together but have been there to intervene.
student is coming in the door so i've got to go.
any suggestions?
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Title: Re: hurting his brother!
Post by: ArmsOfLove on June 14, 2005, 02:36:15 PM
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Well at 3 he doesn't know why
He just does it! My 3yo is a physical little guy! It really helps to have daddy wrestle with him and set healthy boundaries on the physicality; it helps to keep him having physical outlets; it helps to have him get time to play with other physical 3 yo's
Supervise, remove him when he's being physical, get him some more physical outlets (mini trampoline, bed bouncing if you allow that, teach him running or physical games) and, at the same time, teach him to use his words! The more he can expess himself verbally the less he'll feel the need to do so physically--though that may always be his first impulse and he may need more reminders to use his words than more verbal/less physical children.
hth
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Title: Re: hurting his brother!
Post by: greenemama on June 14, 2005, 06:21:09 PM
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i don't think he's hurting jude because he's upset with him -- i think he's bored or that he just plain enjoys all that comes with the hurting -- mom jumps up, baby cries, mom is trying not to be mad but she is, baby continues to cry. maybe it's just the attention?
arrgh.
isn't that negative intent from me?
i mean, i suppose i shouldn't assume he's hurting the baby because he enjoys it! that's just what it seems like.
how do we set healthy boundaries on the physicality?
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Title: Re: hurting his brother!
Post by: crunchymum on June 14, 2005, 10:50:59 PM
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argh.
can you maybe teach him some finger play stuff to do with jude? maybe rub his feet or something? i don't know.... that's so tough....
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Title: Re: hurting his brother!
Post by: godsgracegiven on June 15, 2005, 12:37:50 AM
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Maybe, he is just wanting to play w/ him but doesn't understand how to. My dc will play like this and get rowdy exspecially if they are bored. My youngest is more like this than my son though, so I have to keep her interested in new things through out the day. She is an active person where my son likes to read and color.
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Title: Re: hurting his brother!
Post by: Joanne on June 15, 2005, 09:49:14 AM
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Take a look at your routine and predictability. Most kids his age crave it in order to feel masterful, competent and confident. That's why kids this age "thrive" and "do great" in professional daycare environments or preschool. Not because the child needs preschool but (a good) preschool is predictable and the child feels their freedom in well defined limits.
Increase routined texture play. Play doh, rice, shaving cream, silly putty, gook, finger paints, etc.
Role play, coach and "do over". Practice a better way to communicate using stuffed animals.
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Title: Re: hurting his brother!
Post by: greenemama on June 15, 2005, 11:39:14 AM
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Quote from: Joanne on June 15, 2005, 09:49:14 AM
Take a look at your routine and predictability. Most kids his age crave it in order to feel masterful, competent and confident. That's why kids this age "thrive" and "do great" in professional daycare environments or preschool. Not because the child needs preschool but (a good) preschool is predictable and the child feels their freedom in well defined limits.
Increase routined texture play. Play doh, rice, shaving cream, silly putty, gook, finger paints, etc.
Role play, coach and "do over". Practice a better way to communicate using stuffed animals.
these are terrific and practical. thanks, joanne.
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Title: Re: hurting his brother!
Post by: ArmsOfLove on June 15, 2005, 05:54:55 PM
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I remember working in the Sunday School room for the 2's and 3's and watching a little 3yo barrel across the room and slam into his friend, a 2yo. The 2yo flew over, hit his head, and burst into tears. The 3yo was HORRIFIED and became hysterical that his friend was hurt! He honestly didn't get the cause and effect
I try to explain this to dd when ds hurts her--Yes, he hit you on purpose; he just didn't *hurt* you on purpose
I definately know ds does better when we're routined--I'm working to get us back to that because he definately needs it right now.
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