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Title: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: DanceThen on April 11, 2008, 11:49:39 AM
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I am trying so hard (in my own mind that is) to gently discipline my kids. But the SCREAMING and the HITTING I see from my 2-y-o drives me insaneo! And I KNOW the other moms we play with (who are all VERY good friends of mine) think I am letting him off too easy after he hits one of their kids and/or screams in their faces.
(When that happens, I tell him to stop his hand/voice/offending-part and I also make him stop if he does not immediately stop himself. Then I tell him that hitting hurts (or screaming hurts or ears) and I point at the kid he offended and say "look at his face; you hurt him" OR "hitting hurts" or "he is sad because he is hurt!" but then after that I kind of am at a loss. I have Pie-oh-my say "I'm sorry" but I KNOW it doesn't mean anything to him, and Pie LOOKS sheepish but it doesn't really stop him from exhibiting the behavior, again, like 20 minutes later. ARGH!)
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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: CapeTownMommy on April 11, 2008, 12:58:53 PM
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My dd is younger than either of your dcs, so take what I say with a pinch of salt, but here goes:
I would encourage "gentle touches" after hitting - either on you (show Mommy that you know gentle touches, come on, touch Mommy gently, OK now remember that's how you touch your friends) or on the offended party - have them offer a hug, maybe?
Also, if the behavior gets repeated, I'd institute a consequence - if you can't play without hitting your friends, you have to sit here by Mommy so that Mommy can help you stop yourself from hitting. Or something related to the reason for hitting - if you can't share your toys without hitting, the toys get put away for a while. Something like that.
I don't think you're being permissive, but having clear consequences for hitting or screaming will also help your friends see that you're not letting him off without consequences.
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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: OpalsMom on April 11, 2008, 01:07:59 PM
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I would shadow your child, looking for what sets him off. Then intervene BEFORE he hits or screams, and provide a replacement behavior. He doesn't like kids getting too close? Coach him to move away. He's reacting to them taking toys? He can say "I don't like that", he can play with something else.
If you can't prevent it, you should still look to see what's triggering it and provide some other way to do what he needs to do.
Just trying to get him to stop isn't going to work. He needs to know what to do instead. (And his next 20 guesses are going to be as bad as his first 2!)
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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: DanceThen on April 14, 2008, 08:02:20 PM
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Thanks gals, that is super helpful. I just needed a couple more things to remember to focus on -- now I just need to print out your responses and glue them to the wall of my kitchen. Thank you!
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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: Susan K on April 16, 2008, 05:25:56 PM
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My soon to be four year old ds was a hitter. I kept a close eye on him. When he hit he would need to spend some time with mommy. To many times of hitting then we would go home. It does get better.
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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: NovelMama on April 18, 2008, 08:20:18 AM
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Hey girl! This is the first time I've seen one of your posts.
Does he do this more at playdates and such, or does he do it with Pants and daycare kid too? If it's mostly a playdate thing, then maybe it's the excitement of seeing friends, or the chaos of a bunch of kids running around, that is setting him off--like, it's an energy release, you know? In which case, maybe modeling other ways to release energy--jumping, dancing, etc.--would help.
Also, I think I saw a book at Borders called "Hands Are Not For Hitting" or something like that. Anyone else ever seen that and know if it's any good? Maybe reading that (like, once or twice a day!) would help.
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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: DanceThen on April 25, 2008, 08:19:14 PM
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Ooops, I start these threads with great enthusiasm and then totally forget about them.
Well, it's escalated. He hits with his hands or with whatever toy he happens to be holding; he "bumps" (sidles up to and then throws a shoulder or elbow at), and once he's got the other kid on the ground, he LAYS ON TOP OF THEM.
He also bit his sister twice this afternoon, leaving dreadful welts.
He only bites Pants. The other kids, he "bumps" and hits.
He usually shows some remorse immediately following. He will say he is sorry and show a "gentle touch" (if they even let him get close to them, that is) -- he will run and get that child's fave blanket or toy to help them feel better... but he doesn't STOP the behaviour!
Much of the time it is totally unprovoked and unpredictable. He will just go up to a kid and whack the kid on the head. Ouch!!
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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: Amber on April 25, 2008, 10:35:24 PM
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If this was happening with my two year old I would right with him at all times, so that I could intercept his aggression (I know that is easier said than done
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I would also start making my expectation very clear. On the way to a play date I would go over the rules, then again before going inside. After the first aggression I would let him know that if it happened again we would have to leave...and stick to it. I know it isn't fair to your other child to have to leave something fun because your ds is acting out, but this will pass and it is so much more important to keep everyone safe.
Have you looked into any possible food allergies? I know that dairy, for one, can cause some pretty big behavioral problems. As can some food dyes.
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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: ArmsOfLove on April 25, 2008, 11:05:09 PM
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he is communicating with the only way he knows how. He needs more space than he's getting and he is protecting his toys. IT's not fair to remove him without equipping him to set boundaries more respectfully. He can be taught phrases or sign language for "I need space" "That is my toy" and to ask you for help
If he's a hitter give him an appropriate way to get his hitting out. A pillow or a boppy. I wouldn't have him say he's sorry because he probably isn't. But I would make sure *I* apologize for him and remove him from play until he's ready to apologize *and* make amends.
Start looking for the motivator for the hitting and that will be a big clue into what is going on in your little guys' mind
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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: DanceThen on April 26, 2008, 12:43:22 PM
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Good stuff, one and all. Thanks.
We don't "do" food allergies in my fam
(meaning we have been fortunate so far -- and meaning I hadn't considered that!) Thanks for the info; I'll do some research.
He does speak VERY well so I bet I could teach him to say what he's feeling.
I do need to keep a closer watch on him -- of course that is difficult but it's worth it (and by writing it down here, I'm more likely to hold myself accountable, if that makes sense).
AJ, I have heard of that book but only in the context that it's somewhat inaccurate: Teeth ARE for biting... FOOD. Feet ARE for kicking... a soccer ball. But I could rephrase it (it's not like he can read). I should definitely try to find a copy.
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Title: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: hink4687 on April 19, 2006, 08:30:29 PM
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My DS has starting slapping my face when he's in the sling. He thinks its funny and I have no clue how to stop this. I've been taking his hands and placing them on my face and saying touch gently please but he just thinks that's even funnier and slaps me harder. He's a very hyper little guy and I feel like this is probably age appropriate (I just started reading "your one year old" by ames). But one of my biggest issues is he always does this when we are out and about and I feel like other people are thinking, my goodness momma...get control of your child!
I want to be a gentle mom but in the midst of it I'm afraid I'm becoming too permissive. How do I find this balance? Ok...rambling off on a whole different topic...
Anyone have any specific suggestions on how I should deal with his behavior?
Thanks!
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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: the princess kitty on April 19, 2006, 08:36:49 PM
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My dd was the same age when she started doing things like that. I wouldn't hold her when she did. I put her down and told her she hurt me, and I was not going to allow her to hurt me. It helped. She has gotten the message.
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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: hink4687 on April 19, 2006, 08:47:22 PM
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That sounds great in theory but how do you do that when your walking through the mall or somewhere like that. I don't wear him all that much at home unless he's super fussy that day so I'm typically always out and about and since he can't walk I can't just put him on the ground in the middle of the grocery store. kwim?
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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: raisa on April 19, 2006, 08:53:20 PM
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I try to watch for signs that he's about to hit, and forcibly grab his hands to stop it if necessary. I've had some luck with redirecting -- something specific and positive, like "high five" or "pat my hair," or a toy or something to fiddle with. If that doesn't work I move myself out of the way. If he does it while nursing I'll stop nursing. I would stop in the middle of the mall if that's what it took. If you have a grocery cart you could strap him in the seat. Or just stop walking and hold his hands still until he stops. If he really persists I'd just try to finish up and get him out of the mall so you can move on.
At this age they are learning "cause and effect" and love to play little games -- so if you do something like yelp "no!" in a funny voice each time, they will keep doing it just to hear the yelp. They don't understand that it hurts your face. They are just playing "hit-yelp." So, I try to be totally low key and not call a lot of attention to it.
Permissive would be letting yourself get hurt just to avoid setting a boundary. There are lots of ways to set boundaries and start teaching him about not hitting. it helps think of it as an ongoing process, not an instant fix.
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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: hink4687 on April 19, 2006, 09:03:05 PM
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Question on nursing. Most of our nusing sessions are right before bedtime or naptimes. If DS slaps me then and I end the nursing session he's not going to take his nap. He doesn't fall asleep nursing but he's gets so drowsy and lays down with no whimpers once he's done. I don't want him to think he's won by getting to go play instead but I don't want to pull him off the breast and then put him in his crib to cry. So how on earth do you get away with this without letting him CIO. Is there some point when a little crying is ok because it still doesn't feel right to me and if so at what point does it change from letting a baby cry to not giving a toddler his way. kwim? This age is starting to get hard for me! Sorry lots of questions!
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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: the princess kitty on April 19, 2006, 09:16:46 PM
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Quote:
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That sounds great in theory but how do you do that when your walking through the mall or somewhere like that. I don't wear him all that much at home unless he's super fussy that day so I'm typically always out and about and since he can't walk I can't just put him on the ground in the middle of the grocery store. kwim?
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We didn't get out much then.......grocery store, church, that's it. I don't remember her ever doing anything at the store. We would go early before she got tired and most of our issues were/are when she's tired.
Quote:
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Question on nursing. Most of our nusing sessions are right before bedtime or naptimes. If DS slaps me then and I end the nursing session he's not going to take his nap. He doesn't fall asleep nursing but he's gets so drowsy and lays down with no whimpers once he's done. I don't want him to think he's won by getting to go play instead but I don't want to pull him off the breast and then put him in his crib to cry. So how on earth do you get away with this without letting him CIO. Is there some point when a little crying is ok because it still doesn't feel right to me and if so at what point does it change from letting a baby cry to not giving a toddler his way. kwim? This age is starting to get hard for me! Sorry lots of questions!
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We had some naptime issues. Someone else may have a better way of doing it, but what worked with us (eventually) was when she hit me or bit me or kicked me, I would tell her she may not hit/bite/kick mommy. She usually did it again, at which point I would put her in her bed. I would not leave the room and tried to comfort her by gently rubbing her back and talking to her, reflecting her feelings. If she would not let me near her because she was hitting/biting/kicking I would stand or sit in the room and explain to her that I wanted to hold her and hug her, but I could not do that if she hit/bit/kicked me. Sometimes I tried to help her to calm down by telling her to take deep breaths. Eventually I would ask her if she would let me hold her. After awhile she would. And on certain occasions it seemed to me that she was so angry at me that my mere presence in the room was making her mad (like when she pointed and screamed and threw her toys at me from the bed). So, I told her I was going to get her a drink of water, and that I would be back in a few minutes. It seemed the break from me just getting her a glass of water helped sometimes.
I don't think that is CIO, so someone correct me if I'm wrong. The difference being the child knows you are still there trying to comfort them, and are ready to hold them, once they stop being abusive. They are not alone and crying wondering where is my mommy.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: hiddenhippie6 on April 19, 2006, 09:33:29 PM
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When my dc were that age I would tell them," no, no, touch nice" and gently guide their hand and show them how to touch me or whoever softly. Of course lots of praise then for "touching nicely" It only took a few times and they got it.
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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: raisa on April 19, 2006, 09:47:28 PM
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At that age I was able to set him down, then pick him up thirty seconds later and it would all be behind us. There's no magic formula for what to do, the point is just to not let yourself get hit. I'd say you need to listen to your heart on whether to keep nursing or set your child down in his crib. There are a lot of options between getting hit in the face and leaving him to cry alone if you don't want to. Can you restrain his hands? Change positions so he can't reach your face? (I've rocked a lot in the "bear hug" position with him facing away). Give a little stuffed animal or toy for him to play with? Try a nursing necklace? Turn the lights down so he can't see you as well?
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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: jujubnme on April 19, 2006, 09:50:38 PM
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If he really likes hitting, can you teach him to do a high-five instead? I know some other families with active boys where this worked really well.
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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: raisa on April 20, 2006, 09:20:55 AM
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We do lots of "contact patty-cake" at my house
Or "shaking hands," where he starts to hit, I grab his hand and then sing a little "shaky shaky" song.
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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: mommy2abigail on April 20, 2006, 01:13:28 PM
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Yeah, dd (12.5 months) does the same thing .She also grabs my glasses and throws them down. I mean throws them. SO when she is hitting, I say, "Thats hurts mama, be gentle" and I physically ake her hand and stroke my face with it. She now strokes my face gently (well as gentle as a one year old can be!) when I say be gentle. With the glasses, when she grabs them, I hold her hand and say, "Let go" then if she doesn't I physically pry her fingers off, while repeating "let go." Then I am telling her what to do, and helping her follow through when she cant or wont do it. I would nt say that she is out of control because she is grabbing my glasses or smacking me. Shes one.
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