[GCM_Sticky]

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Title: You hit, you sit
Post by: mlrowley on August 04, 2005, 02:22:20 PM
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Can someone please tell me what this really looks like. We need to start this here. My biggest questions are: does it work for 2.5 y/o? What do you do if they get up from the sitting spot? Is the sitting spot in the room or outside it? Do you suggest an apology when ready to rejoin? What if the recipient doesn't want to be apologized too? I know, probably enough questions for 2 or 3 threads. Sorry. I'm really struggling with so many things right now. I need some more detailed, specific tools. Thanks for any input.

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: ArmsOfLove on August 04, 2005, 02:47:13 PM
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I used it with my 3yo but only because my older children were doing it also. I don't know how it would work with a 3yo if you didn't have older children. I wouldn't use it with a 2.5 yo myself.

The way I recommend approaching everything, including hitting, is to focus on *teaching* when they are young. Teach how to properly express frustration, how to use words, how to do an angry dance, how to make amends, etc etc etc. "You hit, you sit" is more in line with "correcting" and I'd use this with a child who knows better but makes a poor choice and exercises poor discretion.

When that's the case I have introduced the idea, and shown them the place (usually the couch, here) and I expect to spend the first couple of days moving them there and reinforcing this new tool. They sit until they are ready to "make amends" which usually includes an apology but even more includes doing something to make up for what they did (so a gentle touch to make up for the hitting).

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: greenemama on August 04, 2005, 07:10:54 PM
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henry is 3 and we've only recently being doing you hit, you sit. mostly so that i can help the baby that's been beaten on. and so that i can regain composure after feeling angry that he hit the baby.

when he's hit another kid i remove him from the scene entirely and we find a place to regroup. he calms down, we discuss it a bit, not much. i mostly ask questions about what hands are for, what he thinks he could do to make it up to the kid, etc., which, for us, is also normally a gentle touch.

jude is 14 months and i realize with him that i should have started working with henry sooner. i didn't realize that one so young could sort of get "gentle touches" when i'm teaching him *not* to hit. it's different with every kid, tho . . .

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: mlrowley on August 04, 2005, 07:28:40 PM
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Thank you. Dd will be 4 next week. They are so close in age I often do the same with both. I can see where this probably wouldn't work with ds though. How do you handle it when the one who was hit doesn't want to be made up to? DS will usually say "no me want gentle touch".

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: Joanne on August 04, 2005, 07:38:59 PM
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I've used it a lot with my daycare.

In reality, it's "If you hit, you obviously don't have the skills at the moment to play respectfully and therefore I must remove you from play in order to help you control yourself and keep those around you safe." But that's an awful lot to say to a young child.

I usually remove them from play, coach them on how to do better, elicit some kind of verbal agreement/acknowledgement and help them make amends to the injured person.

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: palil on August 04, 2005, 07:49:26 PM
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How do you handle it when the one who was hit doesn't want to be made up to? DS will usually say "no me want gentle touch".

good question..[listening hopefully for answers] There are many occasions when my little 2yo spitfire will have none of it when his brother tries to made amends after hurting him..

I usually just acknowledge to the older son that he has tried.. say thank you or whatever.. and maybe observe that Levi is still angry and needs more time to cool down, and sometimes I will talk gently to my younger son "Caleb is telling you he is sorry.. can he give you gentle touch?" Sometimes phrasing it as "Will you forgive Caleb?" helps or encouraging Caleb to say "Will you forgive me?" Somehow that seems to operate as a "cue" for ds2 to accept a kiss and hug.. but not always.

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: greenemama on August 04, 2005, 09:00:12 PM
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i usually say, "he's not ready for a hug" or whatever it is henry is trying to do and suggest that we move on. henry's interaction with kids around his age is minimal, though, just cuz we don't know anyone. when it's someone else's kid and teaching them how to accept apologies is not my job then i let it go. but i do wonder about jude and teaching him to accept apologies, amends, etc. theoretically i think that everyone in their own parts of the house "cooling off" both the hitter and the hittee will aid not only in getting one to apologize, but in getting the other to cool down, not retaliate, and understand that everyone makes mistakes, etc. :/

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: palil on August 04, 2005, 09:27:20 PM
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and I was recently reminded in a different thread (about this very issue) that this is still a YOUNG age, and modeling and teaching behaviors is key.. not forcing kids to apologize or accept apologies.

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: Joanne on August 05, 2005, 05:35:29 AM
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and I was recently reminded in a different thread (about this very issue) that this is still a YOUNG age, and modeling and teaching behaviors is key.. not forcing kids to apologize or accept apologies.

Is someone suggesting "force"?

I do believe the should usually be mentioned, suggested and nudged.

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: greenemama on August 05, 2005, 06:37:40 AM
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we model apologies all of the time. i don't force an apology, but i do remind him of "what he needs to say" and usually i say, "you need to tell x you're sorry for hitting." it's not a command, it's a reminder. if he's unable to do it he needs more time to regroup, IME. if he's ready to join the kids again or whatever he's normally more than ready to apologize, usually without a reminder. if he's not really ready, i can tell because he's still upset and refuses to apologize, kwim?

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: palil on August 05, 2005, 07:12:46 AM
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Is someone suggesting "force"?

Nope.. not that I noticed. I just mentioned it b/c I thought it was relevant.

When I'm trying to teach my kids to do something, and they refuse to try, it's frustrating and can be tempting to REQUIRE (or try to force) the behavior from them... but when they are very little, I need to just keep focusing on modeling, teaching, and coaching, and trust that they will get it when they're ready. <--- THat's what we talked about in a previous thread about this and it served as a good reminder for me, so I'm passing it on.

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: Joanne on August 05, 2005, 07:55:08 AM
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it's frustrating and can be tempting to REQUIRE (or try to force) the behavior from them... but when they are very little, I need to just keep focusing on modeling, teaching, and coaching, and trust that they will get it when they're ready. <--- THat's what we talked about in a previous thread about this and it served as a good reminder for me, so I'm passing it on.

Gotcha. I agree. As my kids get older, I expect "more" in terms of social niceties and am willing to insist. But not when they are toddlers, early preschoolers.

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: ArmsOfLove on August 05, 2005, 12:26:28 PM
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Oh, and if the offending party isn't willing to forgive at that time I have them take a break, go to the comfort corner, whatever until they are ready to forgive and I tell them to come let me know when they are ready. As for the not wanting gentle touches thing, I have the apologizing child ask what they can do to make it better--they might not want a gentle touch

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Title: Please Help- How do I stop the hitting???
Post by: euromom on April 16, 2007, 07:02:54 AM
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OK, I have been on GCM for close to a year now, and we have done the whole "Hitting hurts" "show gentle" "you hit you sit" etc... and still ds has this thing about hitting me, and just me. He very, very, very rarely ever hits dh, but about 3-4 days of the week we have to deal with it with me and I am getting so tired of it! It normally happens when something from HALT is lacking (normally overtired or hungry) and I know that, but still, it is unacceptable behaviour and I'm struggling getting it to end. A lot of the time it's when he wants dh's attention and not mine, and so we have tried things like "You need to use your words to ask for Tati, you may not hit mommy to get tati to come" and that lasted in about a 45min tantrum the last time. I'm not sure if we were being puntive or not by withholding dh's attention from him (until he used words and not hitting or hurting me) but we also don't want him thinking it's acceptable to hurt me to get his dad to come. This morning he started hitting me again when I took him out of our bedroom so dh could get up. I bear hugged him, I set him down on the couch and told him he could eat his dry cereal there (because I knew part of the prob was he did not have breakfast yet) when I had to bear hug him again, dh came and tried to talk with him. He would show "gentle" to dh (rubbing his face gently and then giving him a hug and kiss) but whenever dh asked him to show gentle to me he would only try to hit me again. What am I doing wrong and what can I do to teach him that this is not acceptable behavior???????

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Title: Re: Please Help- How do I stop the hitting???
Post by: purplerose on April 16, 2007, 07:09:42 AM
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When my DS2 was doing this I would tell him "it's ok to be mad, but we don't hit" I finally told him "When you are mad, hit a pillow and not mommy or someone else". So he started hitting the pillow when he got mad. Maybe validating his feelings about being mad more? Try the pillow hittting concept!



I know how frustrating this can be!!!!

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Title: Re: Please Help- How do I stop the hitting???
Post by: Joanne on April 16, 2007, 08:58:02 AM
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I'm not sure if we were being puntive or not by withholding dh's attention from him (until he used words and not hitting or hurting me) but we also don't want him thinking it's acceptable to hurt me to get his dad to come.

Yes, witholding interaction at this age is witholding love. This creates a feeling of insecurity from which he can't access his best impulse control. It's counter productive.

What I'd do in addition to the practicing you are doing is to add praise for when he finds acceptable ways to get Dad's attention. I'd not over-do it, but mention "that was a great way to tell Dad you'd like him" and give a high five.

At his age and sensitivity to HALT; I'd make sure I had a lot of routine, structure and ritual in the home.

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Title: Re: Please Help- How do I stop the hitting???
Post by: euromom on April 16, 2007, 12:13:31 PM
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When my DS2 was doing this I would tell him "it's ok to be mad, but we don't hit" I finally told him "When you are mad, hit a pillow and not mommy or someone else". So he started hitting the pillow when he got mad. Maybe validating his feelings about being mad more? Try the pillow hittting concept!

I've tried that, and an angry dance sort of thing, I'll have to try the pillows again..... Also, I notice that sometimes when I validate his feelings it just makes him more upset. I know it's not suppose to take away the feelings, just help him to recognize them, but it's like it makes him even more angry sometimes

Yes, witholding interaction at this age is witholding love. This creates a feeling of insecurity from which he can't access his best impulse control. It's counter productive.

This makes sense. I guess I was just trying to teach him that using words is a better way of getting his dad's attention then hurting mom, but the adding in praise seems like a much better way of doing that!

What I'd do in addition to the practicing you are doing is to add praise for when he finds acceptable ways to get Dad's attention. I'd not over-do it, but mention "that was a great way to tell Dad you'd like him" and give a high five.

At his age and sensitivity to HALT; I'd make sure I had a lot of routine, structure and ritual in the home.

He is one that needs this and I do admit we are not good at keeping routine around here I do try to hold firm boundaries with him when nessesary (health, safety...) but it's hard to not always feel punitive, I think my attitude then slips into that sometimes and that too is counterproductive

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Title: Re: Please Help- How do I stop the hitting???
Post by: canadiyank on April 16, 2007, 01:09:42 PM
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I wouldn't use "You hit, you sit" with a 2yo...he's too young to understand that.

If HALT stuff is an issue I'd focus on that. Of course hitting is not acceptable, yet he's 2 and hitting is one of his ways of communicating his anger and disappointment. You may be ineterested in this (http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...topic=102617.0) discussion of "Dealing With Disappointment," particularly Ch. 2 (scroll down on the first page) and how to deal with the big feelings/hitting etc. in the moment. Not only do you need to stop the hitting, you need to teach him new skills other than hitting. Katiekind talked about one...hitting something else. I like large body mvt's for that age. Remember...these things need to be taught and implemented *before* the meltdown. Saying, "Let's do an angry dance," like you found out, is likely to *increase* their frustration if they don't recognize the angry dance as a calming tool.

Another thing I focus on with my 2yo (she hits her older sister) is making amends. Gentle hands and an "I'm sorry sissy," makes up for hurting hands. I've also taught my older dd to say, "You may NOT hit me - that hurts!"

I know it's tough. Very exasperating!