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Title: Hitting, pushing again
Post by: Allison on June 12, 2005, 04:59:59 AM
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I think I posted in HN that my oldest had spent time at his g-ma's and come back with bad habits that his cousin does often. Namely hitting and pushing. I was handling it at first, it was only happening about once per day until the last couple of days. Drew doesn't normally hit anymore--anyone other than his brother, that is. It is really making me angry.
This is what he does: hitting or pushing his brother if his brother tries to take a toy for example. I've told him that if Alex is bothering him, he should ask him to stop and then come get me if Alex doesn't stop. That was working until he went away last week. Now he cannot remember to ask Alex to stop. He just goes straight to pushing or hitting. I tell him no hitting, hitting hurts, but that doesn't seem to work anymore.
Another thing he'll do is to walk closely to Alex and bump into him so that he makes him fall. He's so sneaky about it. But this happens a lot. I am at a loss on what to tell him other than he isn't being kind to his brother when he does that and explain that he hurts Alex. It just doesn't seem to be doing any good.
I watch them as closely as possible, but I simply cannot watch them every second of the day. It's not fair to Alex to not be able to play in Drew's room with him and I can't keep them seperated all day. I do my best, but the truth is that I feel Drew needs some consequences when he does this. He knows it's not right. When I'm explaining why yet again, he giggles or screams depending on if it thought I was watching him or not.
I've tried telling him that he can't be around us if he isn't going to be kind, but he just screams and cries and repeats the behaviour when he's around us again.
Help!
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Title: Re: Hitting, pushing again
Post by: ArmsOfLove on June 12, 2005, 12:12:58 PM
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If I'm reading correctly it's your 4yo who is pushing? This isn't totally un-age expected--which, I know, doesn't make it more pleasant
One rule I instituted when we were dealing with this in our home was this:
1) use your words
2) if your words are used then mommy will make sure the boundary is enforced if you get her
3) if you aren't sure what to do, get mommy first and mommy will remind you to use your words
but will be with you to help you do it
4) if you forget to use your words and hurt someone you lose whatever you were trying to protect.
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Title: Re: Hitting, pushing again
Post by: fatfishes on June 12, 2005, 12:38:43 PM
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that is hepful
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Title: Re: Hitting, pushing again
Post by: Allison on June 12, 2005, 12:53:46 PM
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Crystal, thank you so much!
We were all laying in bed this morning after I posted this and Alex was doing something that annoyed Drew and Drew was about to kick at him, but I was right there to intervene (and things usually go well if I am, of course!) and we talked about my expectations for him when he considers Alex to be bothering him. I asked him what he needed to do if Alex bothered him. He replied that he should ask him to stop. And I said, "but what if he won't stop?" And Drew said, "I'll go get you and daddy and you will help him stop!"
So, he understands, but he doesn't have the impulse control when I'm not right there to say, "Use your words!" Or he kind of likes the reaction the he gets from the his little brother.
I've never taken the object he was protecting away from him when he hurts Alex. I think this is where I lean to the permissive side of things. :-\ I'm learning!
Thanks, again, Crystal!
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Title: DD smacking me. HELP.
Post by: BabyHopes on June 18, 2005, 06:09:44 AM
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My daughter and I have entered new territory. DD is 18 months, and up until now I've felt pretty good about keeping my cool when it comes to discipline/redirecting/guiding/etc... However, she's started this new thing that is driving me crazy. It began pretty innocently. As we would nurse she would thump her free hand against my chest. It got to the point that it actually would hurt. To put a stop to it I would explain to her "Please use soft touches. That hurts Mommy."
And she'd do it again.
So I'd say, "Mommy is done nursing right now. If you want to nurse, come back when you can nurse gently."
And I'd unlatch her and put her down.
Often she'd react in hysterics, tantrum-fashion crying and rolling on the floor.
We are still doing this. Usually at least twice a day. BUT to top that, she has started "thumping" (or as I see it "hitting") me whenever she's angry or upset. She doesn't do it to her Dad, and I've never seen her do it to anyone else but me. At first when she'd take a swing, she'd direct it at my chest. But now she's started trying to smack me in my face!
I'll be honest, it makes me angry. Really angry. To the point that I've had to set her down and, much like a PP said on another thread, lock my fingers behind my back for fear of hauling off and smacking her back.
My question/concern is two fold:
1st) My reaction to her hitting me is starteling abrupt and intense. It's the one time that I seriously want to throw all caution to the wind and pick up from my roots and start spanking. (I was spanked as a child, but this is the first time I have even FELT like spanking DD.) I know part of it is pregnancy. I can remember feeling incredibly irritable and irrational when I was pregnant with DD. Those feelings are back. I don't feel like I have the buffer for my emotions that I had prior to pregnancy. I seriously need help in my toolbox for how to handle my upset feelings.
2nd) My daughters hitting/thumping is getting worse, not better. To the point that she does it completely reactionary. For instance last night IN HER SLEEP dd reached out to smack me when I unlatched her from nursing. I really need to know what to do. I don't have a comfy corner set up. (Just got done reading that thread.) I have tried traditional time outs. (Sit in chair for one minute.) And surprise, surprise, that isn't working.
Although, I'll be honest sometimes that one minute is all that is helping me maintain a shred of the GBD that I normally practice.
I seriously need suggestions. Soon.
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Title: Re: DD smacking me. HELP.
Post by: OpalsMom on June 18, 2005, 08:46:51 AM
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I'm the only person DD bites.
But I've managed to get it down so she only does it in desperation, maybe once a month (like the day we were at the Dr's for an hour and a half *and* she got shots *and* it was past lunch time *and* it was nap time), and I've almost gotten her over the new face-mangling trick she thought up (grabbing my face and pulling/scratching). The main things I do differently from you are: 1) I don't say "please". Not hurting me is not optional! I say "No biting people. Biting hurts." or "Gentle! Touch mama gently." 2) I don't give second chances for unacceptable behavior. You bite me or scratch me, I go away immediately. She learned this while nursing a long time ago, and doesn't try real violence then, so I usually end up saying "I don't play with people who bite/scratch/pull my glasses off". The only problem with this is that she now tries it when she's hoping I'll put her down and walk away (in a store, for instance). I end up holding her as boringly a possible. 3) If I put her down, I don't say "I'm done nursing". I say "I don't nurse babies who bite me."
She did used to thump me while nursing -- just hard enough to be annoying without being hard enough to make me latch her off. I just held her hand. But that was only because she was gentle about it.
One thing that helps for some babies is to give them warnings before you unlatch them. I tried counting down with Opal, hoping she'd object less if it wasn't a surprise --- I know there are people this works for. Now, if I start to count while she's nursing, she sucks harder and flails
one hand at me while trying to protect her latch with the other
So we go with surprising, it's less traumatic for everybody.
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Title: Re: DD smacking me. HELP.
Post by: ArmsOfLove on June 18, 2005, 05:10:45 PM
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I would encourage you to begin holding her hand--gently but firmly when you nurse her. Rub her hands, play with her fingers, keep her hand occupied. If she hits you I'd say simply, "I will not allow you to hit me" while you hold her hand--or even "No hitting. Hitting hurts" and then move her away from you or you away from her. If she indicates she wants back up, pick her up, but put her down as soon as she even tries to hit. Eventually she will stop. In addition, though, teach her what *TO* do. "No hitting. Sign 'all done'" (with whatever sign you want her to use) or "No hitting. Just get down."
hth and please know this isn't abnormal, even though it's unacceptable
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Title: Re: DD smacking me. HELP.
Post by: BabyHopes on June 19, 2005, 01:18:40 AM
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I really appreciate the feedback. Am definately going to have to work at holding DD's hand while we nurse. Although, for 18 months now my 'free' hand has usually supported my breast while she nurses... this is going to be an adjustment. The whole 'thumping while nursing' thing started out pretty innocently. She'd gently pat my chest or stroke my shirt collar while she nursed. Only recently she's tested the limits of how hard she can 'pat.' Hense the thumping. I don't mind the gentle pats, or the collar stroking... it's the grey area between that and hard thumps that I am having a hard time figuring out how to work with.
I mean, do I stop ALL patting? For instance one pat will be soft and gentle, the next sorta harder. To where my brain say's, "Whoa, she's getting a bit rough." And in mid-thought the NEXT thump will be a definate whack against my chest. However, not always does her soft patting get rough... Ugh. I am talking myself in circles. Just going to have to learn to hold her hand.
However, how does all this translate to her hitting me during non nursing times?
Maybe the two aren't related?
It just frustrates me that now when I go to redirect her from an activity that's "not for DD" (Such as punching the "off" button on the computer, or getting her down off of the table after she's climbed up the chairs and made her way to the top) she often reacts by taking a swipe at my face with her hand. Mind you, this doesn't happen ALL the time. It just really bothers me when it does happen. How do I help an 18 month old express her frustration and anger without allowing her to be abusive in the process?
Then there are the totally abritrary times when I don't see an actual reason why she's doing it. For instance, I'll be holding her as we walk and she'll look at me. Raise her arm back and try to hit me in the face! I swear she's testing me to see how far she's allowed to go!
In cases where I see it coming I have held on to her arm (which usually means then grabbing the other arm as well because it's on it's way up to do the hitting the first arm is no longer able to.) I've also tried tickling her, which often works and distracts her. I do wonder, though, if I am starting a bad habit type game in which she tries to get away with hitting and we end up just tickling each other. Does that make sense, at all?
*sigh*
I guess I just need to really start learning about the toddler years. Up until this point she's just been so 'baby' if KWIM? I haven't done a lot of reading on how to deal with toddler type behaviors.
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Title: Re: DD smacking me. HELP.
Post by: ArmsOfLove on June 20, 2005, 12:09:19 PM
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Manda--first I love the chart in your sig line
Second, I would take her hand after all gentle touches and say "thank you for the gentle touch. Now you need to stop touching."
there was a period of time where if Liam sat in my lap at the computer he would, within 5 minutes, be climbing onto my head
I had to stop letting him sit in my lap because I knew where it would lead. That's part of being proactive
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