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Old 06-12-2019, 08:03 AM   #1
CelticJourney
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Default Women's World Cup - a bit of griping

Soccer obsessed family enjoying our favorite time of year (most years...it's like snow here, some years you get it some years your don't) - world tournament season.

I'm having trouble this year because I'm not connecting with the US team. Keep in mind I'm old enough to have enjoyed the '99 team. They were full of heart, humor and sisterhood. Hamm, Overbeck, Fawdy, Ackers!!, etc, etc. You wanted to invite them all to dinner and just enjoy their company.

First, IMO, this group has been tainted by Rapinoe's politics Even ESPN has learned this lesson. We don't want politics in our sports - we need a BREAK. Last night's game made me very uncomfortable. Yes, you play to win and rack up all the goals you can because of goal differential, but the way they celebrated over and over and over seemed like gloating. Like a dad who beat his middle school son at basketball and thinks its a big achievement .... it made them look petty. Contrast the on the field reaction to coach Jill Ellis whose reaction was 'that's great! Exactly what I expect from the first ranked team playing one of the bottom ranked team. You have met expectation.' Not ', we are AMAZING!!!!!'

I'm rooting for Scotland...they are the women's equivalent to Iceland for the men's competition. They need me.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:40 AM   #2
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Default Women's World Cup - a bit of griping

Would people be complaining about their celebrations if this were a menís team?
When the USA Menís basketball ďdream teamĒ was beating teams by 45 points at the Olympics, were people complaining about them celebrating?

They broke a record. I say let them celebrate. If people donít want them to celebrate, they should stop them from scoring.

Iím a competitive athlete who played travel and college volleyball. Itís insulting when a team starts goofing off and takes it easy on you. Every team deserves the opponentís best.

Jmho.

ETA: social media seems to totally disagree with me


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Old 06-12-2019, 10:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: Women's World Cup - a bit of griping

I had a similar first reaction as CJ. However, after reading some comments from the players and talking to my son who is VERY competitive I am more okay with the players celebrating. As one put it, it's the world cup. Scoring is a big deal for the player who scored. And, it's important to team building for them to be able to cheer & celebrate that accomplishment.

This is World Cup soccer, not rec league. I agree about the need to play hard all the way to the end. This is what they have worked most of their lives to be able to do.
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: Women's World Cup - a bit of griping

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Would peop le be complaining about their celebrations if this were a men’s team?
I would. I have sons who play competitive sports and I would be angry with them. Sportsmanship is important. When you are beating someone that badly (especially someone you fully expect to beat) excessive celebration is poor sportsmanship male or female and that’s what I teach all of my kids. I have one who is a big feeler. We’ve worked a lot on his reactions. Not every strike needs to be celebrated. Especially not if it isn’t a major game. If you are pounding someone then lay off because it’s just rubbing salt in the wound and that isn’t necessary. Especially not for every single point. Had it been the lower ranked team stomping on the higher ranked team I would have less issue.

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Old 06-12-2019, 11:55 AM   #5
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Default Re: Women's World Cup - a bit of griping

I have no issue with them scoring as much as they are able. The celebrating was tacky. I agree that the coach modeled affirmation and that they met expectations.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:02 PM   #6
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Default Women's World Cup - a bit of griping

I think there is a big difference between the World Cup and anything that any of us or our kids have competed in. It comes once every four years and is what these women have been working towards their whole careers.

I also maintain that most people (maybe not people here, but news anchors and commentators) donít usually bat an eye if men celebrate excessively. I donít like the double standard.

ETA: Everyone and every sport has different ideas of excessive celebration: what I think is okay in volleyball would never fly in golf or tennis. But what we do in volleyball is tame compared to football and basketball. So I have to keep that in mind.


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Old 06-12-2019, 12:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: Women's World Cup - a bit of griping

Quote:
I think there is a big difference between the World Cup and anything that any of us or our kids have competed in. It comes once every four years and is what these women have been working towards their whole careers
To the world sure but some of these competitions are the World Cup to the kids. It doesn’t change my point. I don’t care how big the competition is or how long a team or person has trained sportsmanship doesn’t change.

Men aren’t exempt. The NFL has a penalty for excessive celebration after plays. Many athletes have been criticized for it in various sports.

Edited to remove personal info.

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Old 06-12-2019, 01:33 PM   #8
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Default Re: Women's World Cup - a bit of griping

YES!! if it were men, I'd be just as upset with the lack of sportsmanship. If we want our children to engage in sports for anything other than trophies and bragging rights, we had better be concerned about character development and winning with honor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virginia View Post
I think there is a big difference between the World Cup and anything that any of us or our kids have competed in. It comes once every four years and is what these women have been working towards their whole careers.....
First, many of the women whose behavior was tacky have been here before. ... four years ago to be exact. Not first-timers. Not the goal of their entire careers. The newbies that scored their first WC goals, I totally get their excitement.

Second, It was Thailand....not France, not Germany, not even Brazil...'just happy to have been invited' Thailand. The US team are the returning champions and highly favored to win against the best in the world...which is definitely not Thailand.

The degree to which they celebrated made them look .... actually I'll repeat what Lexi Lawless said today. Basically his opinion was that they did nothing 'wrong', but since they are the highest ranked team playing such a low ranking team, celebrating the way they did made them look like bullies and the villains of the tournament, automatically making the target on their backs that much bigger. "No one likes it more than seeing a bully punched in the face and, on the world stage, even better if the bully is America"

---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother of Sons View Post
... I don’t care how big the competition is or how long a team or person has trained sportsmanship doesn’t change.
This.
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Old 06-12-2019, 01:57 PM   #9
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Default Re: Women's World Cup - a bit of griping

I guess maybe I just didnít see it as unsportsmanlike and, like I said, it seems everyone has different ideas of sportsmanship.

In golf, itís unsportsmanlike to talk or make noise while your opponent is teeing off or taking their turn, and the same goes for tennis and volleyball. But in basketball and football, making noise while your opponents are on offense or shooting free throws is the norm.

I guess maybe I donít know enough about soccer or something, but I donít see celebrations as unsportsmanlike.

Turning and jeering at your opponent? Celebrations that put down your opponent? Sure.


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Old 06-12-2019, 02:06 PM   #10
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Default Re: Women's World Cup - a bit of griping

It is part of the culture of soccer not to flaunt success in front of a weaker opponent. Itís the beautiful game, accessible to all, on every corner of the earth. Big celebrations happen but there is certainly and expectation of restraint in the face of an opponent with lesser skill and opportunity, women who are grateful to just be there and know they are amongst the giants of the game.

I had the opportunity to be at many of the last Womenís World
Cup games and there was an awesome comraderie amongst the fans who truly celebrated the accomplishments of every team there, whether it was the USA or a small country whose players had never left its borders before. It is a beautiful uniting game at its best.
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: Women's World Cup - a bit of griping

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Originally Posted by expatmom View Post
It is part of the culture of soccer not to flaunt success in front of a weaker opponent. It’s the beautiful game, accessible to all, on every corner of the earth. Big celebrations happen but there is certainly and expectation of restraint in the face of an opponent with lesser skill and opportunity, women who are grateful to just be there and know they are amongst the giants of the game.....
This.


Quote:
I don’t see celebrations as unsportsmanlike.......Celebrations that put down your opponent? Sure.
I would put counting out the number of goals one person scored or whatever it was that Rapinoe did after her goal in that category of putting down the opponent. I'm not saying a 'celebration' is not in order - few people are - but the degree became uncomfortable AND I do think it falls into the category of not representing us well.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: Women's World Cup - a bit of griping

I agree with Virginia for most of what she said with the one exception that’s I do know enough about soccer. I’m a player, I’m a coach and I’ a referee. Soccer is my sport.

You cannot have the women’s game especially on the world level without politics. You just can not. It took politics to even make the game possible for us.

There is a law about excessive celebration already. The 99ers are why the law exists for both the men’s teams and the women’s teams because the one great thing about soccer is the laws are the same. There is no law about reducing the celebration because of the number of goals scored. You can not compare what sportsmanship at the youth level should look like to what sportsmanship at the absolute highest level should be.

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Old 06-12-2019, 05:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: Women's World Cup - a bit of griping

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You cannot have the womenís game especially on the world level without politics. You just can not. It took politics to even make the game possible for us.
So you are aware of the kind of politics Rapinoe is bringing to this? I know all about Title 9 and the pay inequality issues. I get that kind of politics. I don't get 'I hate the president so I will behave in a certain way to make that an issue in the game'.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:56 PM   #14
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Default Re: Women's World Cup - a bit of griping

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You can not compare what sportsmanship at the youth level should look like to what sportsmanship at the absolute highest level should be.
Right the standard should be HIGHER for adults than it is for kids. Why teach it in youth sports if it doesn’t really matter? I can’t wrap my head around the rules of being a decent human being being relaxed because you are now getting paid a lot of money. Obviously this is something I feel strongly about so I’m going to let this be my last comment.

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Old 06-12-2019, 06:34 PM   #15
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Default Re: Women's World Cup - a bit of griping

I donít think you can have the same expectations of sportsmanship (or I guess what is being labeled sportsmanship in this thread) for youth and adults, though. Adults are mature and grown. Mentally tough. And these are professional adults. A celebration by the opposing team isnít going to crush their self-esteem or make them quit a sport because they feel badly about themselves the same way it might do to a nine-year-old little league player. At that age, sports are about growth and development and fun. As a professional adult, itís notó itís about winning and competing at the very highest level and sacrificing everything to make your dreams come true.

I respect where yíall are coming from, and believe it or not, sportsmanship is very important to me as a coach and a player AND a parent AND a referee of my sport.

I simply do not agree with yíall that is is bad sportsmanship, and I do not have a problem with a team who beat my team 25-10 in volleyball doing their ace/kill/block cheers and still running plays and serving tough and celebrating points As long as they arenít turning and facing my players and jeering at them or mocking them.

So I guess I need to just agree to disagree with yíall


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