New here! Gentle discipline help

Hi everyone! I joined a couple years ago but have recently decided to completely stop spanking (we didn't spank often, but I felt convicted about it). I have to confess that I am nervous on this new journey, because we used spanking as a last resort for outright defiance, disrespectful talk, etc. and I'm afraid that I will be raising brats with no boundaries. I think I am afraid of this because every kid that I've met that isn't spanked, quite honestly is a brat. Is that terrible to say??

Anyway, I'm a little overwhelmed trying to browse through all the ideas for gentle discipline so I'm hoping for some extra help with my spirited 3 year old daughter. I have noticed her change for the worse since stopping spankings, like she knows I'm floundering for firm boundaries other than spankings. I am familiar with gentle parenting and try to script with her, but she is definitely a leader and wants to be in charge SO badly, especially since we stopped spanking. She has started arguing with me about EVERYTHING and telling me why she shouldn't have to listen to me, etc. It has gotten to the point where I've yelled at her multiple times a day because I'm just at a loss of how to respond to her. For example, during quiet time in her room she will make as much noise as possible, come out of her room, etc to have me come up there and tell her to stop. I try to spend a lot of quality time with the kids so they don't feel the need to always have my attention, but I have 3 kids ages 4 and under so I don't know how well I'm doing with that.

Sorry for the rambling post! Just looking for some resources to help me with a sassy 3 year old!

[Kiara.I]

Hi, welcome! (Welcome back? )

So, a couple of points: First, you might have met other kids that aren't spanked and *aren't* brats, but you might never have checked whether they're spanked or not because, well...they weren't brats!
Second...gentle discipline isn't NO discipline. Some people don't spank...AND don't discipline. As could be expected, that might not go well...
Third...sometimes it's age-expected behaviour, and no matter how bratty it seems at the time, the child does grow out of it. And yes, it's possible that the spanked children you know didn't behave that way at those ages out of fear...but perfect behaviour as children isn't the best end goal to have for your parenting.

You have a spirited 3-year-old. Congratulations! She'll be an AWESOME adult! But yes, it's challenging right now. 3 is...a particularly notorious age. And it can be especially challenging if you're bucking cultural norms about how a *girl* "should behave." Any chance there's some of that mindset creeping in? I'm pretty fond of spirited high-energy girls, myself, but I have certainly run across the idea that girls "are more gentle, quieter, etc." And...what if they aren't?

It's also expected that if you stop spanking, you're going to see an increase in boundary pushing. After all, this is new to her, too! It's not surprising she's trying to see if you really mean it...

Reading the 3-year-old sticky can help a lot.

[ShiriChayim]

4 kids under 4 is a handful! Right now my youngest is 5 but when she was born I had one that was 4, one that was 3, a 1yo, and her. It was intense. I promise you, the intense will get better. Yes, at the moment everyone probably needs mommy a LOT. At that young age there's lots of big feelings and testing boundaries. That's all age expected and really good. Not necessarily easy, BUT it is developmentally appropriate as kids are figuring out their world and their place in this world.

I think it's good for you to list out your parenting goals for your kids. It sounds like you are coming from a paradigm in which "good behavior" is the goal for your children (I came from a similar one ) and so the methods used to gain that come down to basic behavioral management. You try to set it up so that NOT doing what you want them to do makes them unhappy enough that they learn to do what is asked of them to avoid unpleasant consequences. Unfortunately that approach winds up being fairly limited because kids (strong willed kids especially) will decide it's "worth it" to do what they want they tend to up the ante or just get really good at sneaking.

GBD is a lot more about giving children the tools they need to do the right thing because they understand it's the right choice to make. That takes a lot more time but it's worth it. It doesn't mean you let bad behavior slide...saying behavior is age appropriate doesn't mean the behavior itself is appropriate. It just means that a child doing that isn't a horrible brat-just at a particular stage of development.

I might suggest for dealing with an argumentative 3 yo the 5 Steps.

I am new here too. These posts are very helpful. Thanks! I have a 4 kiddos (10, 9, 6, and 2). The two middles have ADHD and had a traumatic past before we adopted them. My New Year's resolution (one of them anyway) is to put into practice gentle parenting/discipline. I know in my heart that it is the best approach, especially in light of my kids' unique needs. I will keep checking in for hints and words of encouragement. It is NOT easy, so I am grateful for this support!

[rjy9343]

My four year old was born ready to take charge of everything. She was probably that way in utro if the truth is told. Stop telling me what to do and you are not the boss of me are probably her two most common phrases right now. She is a high spirited, high energy, full throttle little girl. She is very proud of how hard it is to cause her pain.
She is also incredibly kind, thoughtful and sympathetic. She knows what she believes is right and she will do it even if others disagree. She is unwilling to back down even when she knows she will lose. She drives her father and me nuts. But we wouldn't have it any other way.
Not because she finally drove us crazy, but because we see the progress she has made. We know that we don't get an obedient and compliant child who also has the tenacity and fearlessness that our Ivy has. So we encourage and nurture the good while teaching her the best ways to manage herself.
We teach her by talking to her . Yes, she has talked us into changing our minds and giving her what she wants more than once. But not because she has screaming fits or with other bad behavior, but by explaining why her way is better. Do people think we're pushovers? Maybe. Not our problem. She is mostly respectful and reasonably well behaved. And she doesn't get spanked.

[rjy9343]

IfI really want to encourage you to forget the nonsense that is breaking the will. Your girl doesn't need breaking, she needs creative and diplomatic leadership.
She is testing you because she doesn't know how to articulate her questions. Why does she need quiet time? Is it so the others can sleep? Is so that she can fall asleep? Is it so you can get a break? Of something different? What can you do to meet both needs? Will screen time give you a break and let the others sleep? Will putting her in bed with you help her sleep so everyone gets much needed rest?
Sassy talk gets an over the top plead script. As in oh my dearest and most exalted mother. I fear that I have been incredibly rude and humbly beg for a moment of your time so that I might plead for your forgiveness oh most gracious mother. Is it possible to forgive such inexcusable behavior? She says I'm not saying that. So I script the correct way and she does it.
Just because she wants to argue does not mean you have to engage. It's okay to say I'm through discussing this. We will do what I just said, end of story. And then do it. She probably won't like it, but sometimes that is how it has to be.

Thank you all for your help! I am seeing improvement already, and it is SO encouraging. I think this way of parenting is harder, more hands - on than "if you do that again you're getting a spanking" but I'm already seeing rewards. My daughter wants to talk through EVERYTHING which is hard for an introvert like me! But it's forcing me to slow down, to discuss with her, to engage. I didn't think of myself as a managing mom because everyone tells me I'm so laid back, but I've realized that I like schedules and having activities, and my daughter likes to fly by the seat of her pants and stay home. We are complete opposites but I'm starting to "get" Herr. My son is basically a boy version of me and the baby is only 1 so right now half the battle is my strong willed three year old. BUT I'm learning to let go of expectations of myself and for her, and just work on her heart because it's an amazing heart. I am reading "Jesus the Gentle Parent" and have found it so helpful, along with your encouragement. Thanks again!