How To Talk to Church About AP?

[Leslie]

I overheard one of our church ushers in the hallway telling a mom, who had been called out of the service because her toddler was screaming, to "just leave and let the nursery workers deal with her; if you get her now, she'll only learn that all she has to do is cry and you'll come and get her."

The mom peeked in the window, considered, thought about it, peeked in again, the usher said again, "They have to learn. I've raised two boys and they did the same thing. You have to be tough or they'll walk all over you." Then she finally said, "I think I'll go ahead and get her." And she got her child and took her into the service -- so that ended well.

I wanted to intervene, but that would have been awkward -- I was a distance away, so I would have had to run down the length of the hall and force myself into the sitiation, and -- what makes it complicated -- I'm technically not supposed to be there. I post podcasts of the services to the church website, and my job is to work downstairs in the media room on the church PC editing an earlier service to post online. But my 11 year old developed anxiety a couple of years ago, and we worked it out so that she'll go to Sunday School as long as she can look out into the hallway and see me there. So I put the software I needed on a laptop, and I sit in the hallway by her classroom with my laptop perched on my lap and I do my editing in the hall. For now, it works for everyone, and everyone is happy.

I'd like to pursue this with the leadership of the church - I'm friends with the pastor's wife who oversees the children's ministry and she's largely the one who sets rules about things will be done regarding the children (we homeschool together, so our kids are friends and we're friends beyond church, and she understands my daughter's anxiety issue). I'd like to ask if we have a policy about handling screaming toddlers -- do we as a church want to encourage parents to nurture their children by removing them from the nursery, or do we want to "teach" the kids that crying will not get them their mom?

But I'm the mom who is sitting in the hallway because her 11 year old won't go to Sunday School by herself! I'm hardly an example of how early nurturing results in more confidence and independence later. I'm not sure I have any credibility.

[OatsandBran11]

I dont know what to do about changing the churchs policies. But I do think you should seek out that mom and give her some encouragement. I bet she would appreciate knowing someone thinks she did a great job.

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[OnAMission]

Bless you for being willing to say something! We visited a church with my parents for a year (we were staying with them for the year). The first Sunday I tried putting dd1, then very young, in the nursery. I got a lot of flack from the nursery workers when I got her ("she just needed to be left alone" ), and I had to basically grab her while they tried to prevent me. The ushers bothered me about it too . They all thought I was a first-time mom Needless to say I told my mom, who was appalled despite not being particularly ap, and passed on my complaint. I never left her there again though because I did not trust them.

I would definitely ask if they have a policy, and also ask if they honor parent requests that might be a shorter time than the policy. My limit if I were to leave my kids (which I don't bother anymore, I just stay), would be five minutes without showing signs of stopping crying. A lot places have a higher limit, like 10, 15, or 20 minutes. I think it's good to have a limit , but mine is pretty short, and I would want them to honor it, even if it is different than the policy.

I would also encourage the mom! I felt so alone at that church after that because I didn't trust the ushers or the nursery workers because of their unkindness to dd2 It made me wonder if all the other attenders felt the same, which they may or may not have, but I was not interested in finding out because of my experience (and because we were only going to be there for the year, but I would have made more of an effort if they had been more attentive to dd2 and her need for me). A kind word from someone supporting me would have made all the difference.

[milkmommy]

I don't understand why a child needs to be separated from their parent at all. I mean I get having a Children's service etc but why do the kids HAVE to learn to separate.. I'm not understanding that part at all.

[marbles]

Originally Posted by OatsandBran11

I dont know what to do about changing the churchs policies. But I do think you should seek out that mom and give her some encouragement. I bet she would appreciate knowing someone thinks she did a great job.

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I would do this first. I am sure she would really appreciate hearing someone else say that she did the right thing! I tried to change our church's policy one time, there's a thread about it here, basically I emailed the nursery coordinator and told her my concerns. I outlined why I thought we should shorten our crying policy, to nurture children and better minister to parents. Nothing was changed. I did make it a point to let someone know why I was not using the nursery. I told another person who was in a leadership position that I did not trust the nursery workers to honor my children because of the crying child policy so I would not leave my children in there unless there was a worker there I trusted. Still didn't change anything, but my voice was heard.

[rjy9343]

I would go after the usher's very inappropriate behavior. I don't care what he did. A mother thought her child needed her and he discouraged her from parenting the way she saw fit. Parents should have free access to their own children. End of story. I will not attend a church that employees gate keepers I must pass to get to my child. That usher would have ensured that I never returned.

[Leslie]

Originally Posted by rjy9343

I would go after the usher's very inappropriate behavior. I don't care what he did. A mother thought her child needed her and he discouraged her from parenting the way she saw fit.

This is the angle I'm thinking of. If our church doesn't have a policy, then I think we need one -- ushers should be expected to encourage moms to parent the way they choose. Or even a step further -- ushers and nursery workers should encourage moms to attend to the needs of their children with love. It seems strange that such a thing should even need to be clarified in a church!

The sermon I was editing at the time -- what I was hearing through my headphones while this conversation was going on -- was about God's church being a place to find mercy. Meanwhile, a mom is being pressured in the halls of my very church to show tough love to her own child. I see a big discrepancy there.

---------- Post added at 10:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 PM ----------

Originally Posted by marbles

I outlined why I thought we should shorten our crying policy, to nurture children and better minister to parents. Nothing was changed. I did make it a point to let someone know why I was not using the nursery. I told another person who was in a leadership position that I did not trust the nursery workers to honor my children because of the crying child policy so I would not leave my children in there unless there was a worker there I trusted.

When I had toddlers, I stayed in the nursery with them -- which made me the default nursery worker. And if ever a child didn't want to be left, I would encourage the mom to either stay, or take their child into the sanctuary with them. I ended up meeting a lot of the young moms that way because it would often just be the two of us and our own two toddlers, or maybe a third child.

[marbles]

Say what you said just there. You don't have to have the poster child for independence. It's not even about that. Even if the nursery has a crying child policy, parents should be met not with "don't worry, I can handle it" but with assurances that the child will be well cared for. Church should be a positive experience for kids, not a place they are scared to go. I actually saw a kid holding onto his mom's leg crying that he didn't want to go to church and she was assuring him that it wasn't Sunday so it wasn't church, they were just going into the nursery for a play date. He was comforted by the fact that he wasn't going to church. That shouldn't be.

[rjy9343]

I don't know that anyone needs to encourage getting your children or what have you. To some tough love is loving and good parenting. I know people that would see nothing wrong with tough love for your kids while finding mercy for others. Some would even go so far as to say that by not giving in now means they won't have as great of a need for mercy later.
A general myob policy is probably best. Unless you see something that would interest the law, keep your thoughts to yourself.

[mamaKristin]

I think the bigger issue is respecting the parent. I've had "helpful" people tell me what they think I should do, and that's just not helpful. What is helpful is letting the parent be the parent, and offering assistance when asked for. When we respect people, and offer them advice when ASKED for, we are showing them love. Period.

[MegMarch]

So maybe there needs to be discussion about what the goal is in having a nursery. For me, I want one that serves the various needs of the congregation. I want a place I can let my child spend time having fun, learning about God in an age appropriate way, where I know she's going to be tended with love in safety. I do not want my child learning independence from me or to be provided with a place to leave her so that the sanctuary can be child-free.

[CelticJourney]

...church ushers in the hallway telling a mom, who had been called out of the service because her toddler was screaming, to "just leave and let the nursery workers deal with her...."

Well, what strikes me is that the mom had been called by the nursery. I imagine the nursery worker that called wouldn't appreciate his attempt to intervene.

[JessicaTX]

That's the part I noticed as well. The nursery worker thought the kid needed mom, the mom thought the kid needed her. Why was the usher even interjecting here?

[Leslie]

Originally Posted by CelticJourney

Well, what strikes me is that the mom had been called by the nursery. I imagine the nursery worker that called wouldn't appreciate his attempt to intervene.

Yes, that was sort of odd.

Sometimes I hear a child in distress from the hall where I'm working, and I wonder if I should get up and get the parent. The ushers would probably think the crying was disturbing me, but that's not it -- I can tune out whining. But if it was my child, I'd want to be there. But then, just as I start seriously considering whether I should hint to someone that the parent should be called, someone does get the parent. I assume - because the crying usually ends.

---------- Post added at 04:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:43 AM ----------

Originally Posted by marbles

Even if the nursery has a crying child policy, parents should be met not with "don't worry, I can handle it" but with assurances that the child will be well cared for. Church should be a positive experience for kids, not a place they are scared to go.

That brings back memories of the time I left my first child in the nursery. He was 17 months old, and I was assured that my child would be fine, and that they would let me know if he cried.

I popped in ten minutes later to see how he was doing, and he was crying, and the workers were trying to hush him when I had clearly told them to get me! So I took him out, and in his baby voice, he kept telling me, "no go back there again." For weeks afterwards, he would remind me that he wasn't ever going back there again. And he never did.

[MariJo7]

I believe you are the right person, if you feel like something has to be said. And I think you ARE a great example. You are there for your child when she needs you. That's good!

---------- Post added at 06:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:28 PM ----------

Oh, church nurseries can be such nasty places! I have almost developed an anxiaty issue for myself because of some of them...