dealing with defiance or ?

[zak]

When they lack impulse control, we must help them. I don't see it as defiance. Just immaturity and lack of IC.

"It seems you are having a hard time not touching those buttons come
Sit here <go get him if he doesn't come to you>".

"Since you can't control your hands around the spigot, you're going to need to come inside/over here <go get him if he doesn't move>".


I think of them very much like 18-24 month olds when they do that. Distract, redirect and "make it happen".

Well, when I say Christian camp, I don't mean one FOR defiant kids, just a normal one where he can hopefully have some quiet time and an encounter with God, plus possibly.miss his family for the 5ish days he's gone and appreciate them more. As far as military camps, they have kid's military camps like ROTC for kids which teach a lot of good values without being abusive.

[ArmsOfLove]

Originally Posted by })i({HeGaveMeWings})i({

Well, when I say Christian camp, I don't mean one FOR defiant kids, just a normal one where he can hopefully have some quiet time and an encounter with God, plus possibly.miss his family for the 5ish days he's gone and appreciate them more. As far as military camps, they have kid's military camps like ROTC for kids which teach a lot of good values without being abusive.

The problem is that such a camp won't change the fact that he's 6. And defining normal 6yo behavior as defiance creates an adversarial dynamic and that makes it harder to disciple.

[sweetpeasmommy]

My brother went to such camps and then inpatient and later residential home for behavioral stuff. It really only introduced him to worse things than he knew before.


He was much older, 14+. I can't imagine the effect on a 6yo.

I had wonderful experiences at Christian camps. I really got closer to God and had a fun time. Camps are some of the most awesome experiences of my childhood.

[ArmsOfLove]

The way to focus on building and strengthening the relationship with parent and child (or child and child) is not to arbitrarily seperate them. And a 6yo going to camp is very young and would more likely be traumatizing.

[deena]

Reiterating what Zac brought up. Impulse control and defiance are different. My ADHD son went through a long phase of this. You are already keeping him close. Have patience, Mama.

[Kiara.I]

Originally Posted by })i({HeGaveMeWings})i({

I had wonderful experiences at Christian camps. I really got closer to God and had a fun time. Camps are some of the most awesome experiences of my childhood.

And I think they can be a wonderful experience. I remember going to camp at 7 and, while I did have fun, it was *hard*. It would depend a lot on the child, and on whether they had friends already in place that were going, I think.

I will probably send my kids to camp when they're older. Absolutely.

But I wouldn't use camp as a treatment for an issue I was having with behaviour. It's not what camp is designed for, and I'm sure if the child thought they were being sent to camp *because* they were misbehaving, it would be quite scary for them. You're right, camp is supposed to be FUN! Which means it's not to be used as behaviour modification.

Instead, seek change through connection with the child. Explain expectations, provide help for them to meet the expectations. If that means keeping the child within arm's reach for a while, then that's probably what needs to happen.

[zeo2ski]

Since this is relatively new behavior, I'd guess it will be a phase. I have a 6 and almost 8 y.o. boys, and when they get some game going that they think is silly, they have a hard time stopping too.

Personally, I think it's not entirely an impulse control issue (peeing, pushing buttons etc) but a combination of boredom and just plain not understanding WHY those things are harmful. And explaining that the pump will burn out isn't going to make much impact, money is still fairly abstract, and unless he's suffered from a lack of water before, even the idea of "we won't have water" isn't fully understood. My 6 yo boy has similar moments while my oldest appeared to think much clearer since he was 2yo! Frustrating for sure. But still appropriate for his age.

I might try concentrating on finding something to keep him busy that he enjoys.

[saturnfire16]

How's your connection with them outside of these issues?

[greenishmama]

Originally Posted by saturnfire16

How's your connection with them outside of these issues?

good it seems. I haven't been getting down on the floor and playing lego's with them though or setting up special play themes. It happens even when they don't seem bored though too.

it's part impulse control, part boredom, and part "I know you just told me not to do this but watch, I'm going to do it again anyway". that's the part we stuggle with the most. call it what you want but when you know they know they are doing something wrong on purpose it's hard to deal with.

[ArmsOfLove]

but when you know they know they are doing something wrong on purpose it's hard to deal with.

it is human nature to test boundaries until you know they are secure and can keep you safe - so every single time they move to do it I would move and prevent it. I would try to not even let them get close enough to do it. I would make sure when I'm giving instructions that I'm on their level, touching them, looking in their face (they don't have to look at me because that is actually harder for them to listen) and speaking clearly. Then I have them repeat it to me. Then I immediately redirect them.

And if they make a mess I would insist they clean it up; if they break something they fix it or work off the money to fix it; etc.

Consistency is important - it just doesn't have to be punitive

[greenishmama]

Originally Posted by saturnfire16

How's your connection with them outside of these issues?

Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove

it is human nature to test boundaries until you know they are secure and can keep you safe - so every single time they move to do it I would move and prevent it. I would try to not even let them get close enough to do it. I would make sure when I'm giving instructions that I'm on their level, touching them, looking in their face (they don't have to look at me because that is actually harder for them to listen) and speaking clearly. Then I have them repeat it to me. Then I immediately redirect them.

And if they make a mess I would insist they clean it up; if they break something they fix it or work off the money to fix it; etc.

Consistency is important - it just doesn't have to be punitive

But with things like the play hitting on the butt thing there is no preventing it. It just happens when one walks by the other even if I'm write there between or practically touching them. My eyes might be on my food at the moment and wham- there it is. Telling them we are not playing that game does nothing. They will do it again if not immediately then 10 minutes later. There really isn't a way to prevent this game. It just erupts at various times throughout our day when one happens to walk past the other for example.

with other things we could try to prevent- we've put some things up high in the kitchen cabinet for example. 6 yr old can be found standing on the counter looking in cabinets up there. He hasn't gotten into anything dangerous (yet) that way but had retrieved things that have been taken away. I could be in the bathroom or getting dressed, etc. when these things happen. ??

[saturnfire16]

I'm sorry, I might have missed it upthread, but is this butt smacking game something they are both doing and both ok with? If so, I'd just let them do it. Make sure they know it's totally not appropriate with anyone else, but between the two of them until they out grow it (or not.... guys in locker rooms still do it )

[greenishmama]

Originally Posted by saturnfire16

I'm sorry, I might have missed it upthread, but is this butt smacking game something they are both doing and both ok with? If so, I'd just let them do it. Make sure they know it's totally not appropriate with anyone else, but between the two of them until they out grow it (or not.... guys in locker rooms still do it )

well yes and no. I initially allowed it. they would sometimes "ask" for it "can't get me" etc. but... it ends up badly more than 50% of the time with the younger crying or getting mad even though he brought it on or the older hitting too hard. It really seemed sometimes older was being passive aggressive. I could tell by his facial expression at the time that it perhaps wasn't just fun and games- it seemed a way for him to hurt with it looking like a game. there is probably some boy-type psychology behind it too but enough is enough for me. And it was spreading to outside the home too that they would do it. So we had to tell them they just couldn't play it anymore, even if one person asks for it. but they refuse to stop themselves from playing it and even asking/suggesting they play it ("you can't get me..." etc.) even though it's now not allowed. DH and I are not very creative and so we started time outs for it. I know time outs are a "no-no" here, punitive, etc. but we were at a loss for any other consequence for that.