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Old 06-15-2007, 02:34 AM   #16
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Default Re: Collected Posts about "You Hit, You Sit" and General Posts about Hitting

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Title: THEY WON'T STOP FIGHTING!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: purplerose on May 19, 2005, 09:33:05 AM
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I'm trying to be as gentle as I can, but my 3 and 2yo won't stop fighting!!!!uhghhghggh!!  They just scream and scream at each other!  This started yesterday and they are doing it again this morning!!!  I'm trying to distract them, but it's just not working!!  DH wants to revert back to yelling and a swat on the bottom again, but I told him NO!!!  It's just a phase and they'll work through it.  I'm trying to get them to do other activities, and even tried to put them in separate activities, but they just want what the other is doing!!  Any advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Title: Re: THEY WON'T STOP FIGHTING!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: blessed2mothr4 on May 19, 2005, 10:10:48 AM
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Lara    I have been dealing w/ this w/ my 4 yo and 3 yo all week! I have been so upset w/ them and did revert back to yelling at them.    Today I woke up and said "thing have got to change"  So I changed things...  We worked on sorting through toys, cleaning and played together.  When they started to fight I waited a few minutes to see how they'd work it out and then intervene if I needed.  I just tried to keep them busy w/ playing or cleaning and it seemed to help... 

I will be praying for you! I know how very frustrating it is.


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Title: Re: THEY WON'T STOP FIGHTING!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: ArmsOfLove on May 19, 2005, 11:13:11 AM
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What they are showing you is that not fighting before was not because they knew how to get along--it was from fear of punishment.  So it's time to actively teach them how to get along.  Problem solving skills are important, they need to know how to reflect feelings, assign a positive intent, all the things you're learning need to be being passed on to them   Can you describe a fight between them and what it sounds/looks like so I can help with where I'd insert what?


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Title: Re: THEY WON'T STOP FIGHTING!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: purplerose on May 19, 2005, 01:20:08 PM
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I figured maybe a change in scenerey or people would help!  So my girlfriend came over with her little boy and the 3 of them palyed in the backyard and got along great!  Then we took the kids to McDonald's for lunch and they played great again!  Then we came home and me and my 2 kids played outside (I had to really supervise them, not because of their fighting, but b/c of the little boy next door)....when the little boy started to get mean I said "Ok, let's go in for quiet time and nap time" and NO ARGUEMENTS!!!  Now DD is upstairs laying in my bed for her quiet time (watching tv) and DS is playing down her next to me right now for a few more mintues and then I will lay him down and get DD down for a nap and then I get NICE AND PEACEFUL MOMMY TIME!!!!!!!!!!  I guess they had some pent up energy they needed to get out!!!!!  I'm just glad to know that I'm not the only one who goes through this at times!!!!!!


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Title: Re: THEY WON'T STOP FIGHTING!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: ArmsOfLove on May 19, 2005, 01:37:02 PM
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Yeah   that "taking a break" skill is invaluable!  That's why I love the Comfort Corner


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Title: Re: THEY WON'T STOP FIGHTING!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Joanne on May 19, 2005, 03:42:06 PM
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Quote
DH wants to revert back to yelling and a swat on the bottom again, but I told him NO!!!  It's just a phase and they'll work through it.  I'm trying to get them to do other activities, and even tried to put them in separate activities, but they just want what the other is doing!!  Any advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Well, you and DH are both right and both wrong. 

It is a common stage.  One that will take many forms in the next .... 10 years or so.  Indeed, my sister and I still "fight" in ways and we are 39 and 50. 

So, yes, it's a phase.  And, yes, they need the type of boundaries that spanking would provide - but without the spanking.

Here's what I'd do.  I'd look at my lifestyle.  When things get like that around here, we usually:

1)  Watch too much TV (or over use other screen activities).
2)  Don't get outside enough.
3)  Have too many toys.
4)  Don't have enough predictable structure.
5)  I have started repeating myself instead of "making it happen".

So, I change all of that.  Those are proactive responses.  For responsive discipline (in the moment), they get a do-over after I coach them through a better way to handle the situation.  Continued fighting means that NO ONE plays with the item.


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Title: Bad day with 9 yo dd. Long-ish and need feedback
Post by: Mothering by Heart on August 05, 2005, 11:11:04 AM
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Yesterday, my 9yo dd kept having a hard time listening to her siblings. She would hit them, and when they told her to stop doing something, she would just not stop. I had to step in and say, "When someone tells you stop, you stop."

Later last night, before bed, she threw something at her 2YO SISTER"S FACE!! She is 2!!. I just don't get it. It was pretty close to bedtime, so I said, "You have had a hard time listening to people today, you have been hitting and now you just threw a toy at a baby's face. You need to go to bed, now, beause you are having a hard time being arouind other people.


She started crying and screaming that she was NOT going to bed and that she would just turn the light back on. I said you are going to bed, and I will turn the light back off. I said good night , turned on the night light and turned off the light.

I heard her get out of bed, and I went to her room and the light was back on. I fixed her fan so she couldn't turn the light back on. She started screaming that she hated me. I said, "Well, I love you. Goodnight" and I left.

I went down stairs. A few minutes later, she comes down stairs crying and startes arguing about going to bed. I stated again why she needed to and that was it. My dh backed me up. So she yelled at us both to "Shut Up!" I got off the couch and took her hand to lead her up stairs saying, "You may ot talk to me like that. Go to bed." SHe stomped as loudly as she could to her room.

After giving her a few minutes, I went upstairs to her room to talk with her . On her door was a sign that said "MOM" It was in a circle with a line drawn through it. I pushed open her door. I was going to see how she was doing. Before I could say anything, she snapped, "Can't you read?"

My face fell and I turned and walked out. A few minutes later, she came downstairs again and said, "I removed the sign."
I said, "okay"
"Well, aren't you going to come back and talk to me?"
I said, "When I am ready."

I finished what I was doing and then went upstairs to talk to her. She started crying and said. "I don't understand why you did a big thing to me when I only did a small thing." :/

I said, "I didn't do anything to you. You have had a hard time all day respecting people's boundaries and hurting them. I don't think that is a small thing."

She wanted me to spend more time with her, but this was a preplanned night with dd 5 and I didn't think it was fair to take that from dd 5. I reiterated that I loved her and told her good night.

Today, she seems to be in a happy mood. I am just wondering what I could have done differently if anything.

Thanks



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Title: Re: Bad day with 9 yo dd. Long-ish and need feedback
Post by: ArmsOfLove on August 05, 2005, 11:44:55 AM
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Amy, ever have a bad day when you pick a fight with someone just so you can get all your angst out? Ever look to be provoked or take innocent things wrong knowing it had nothing to do with the innocent thing but you needed to just get the yucky stuff inside out? It sounds like your 9yo was having one of those days After the pattern started and she was clearly being negative and antagonistic I'd have turned my focus to pursuing her to figure out what was really wrong. Sounds like she was pushing you away to see if you loved her enough to pursue her. She needs you to walk through the sign, break through her nasty, and hug and love on the little hurt girl who is buried under all the crud


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Title: Re: Bad day with 9 yo dd. Long-ish and need feedback
Post by: Mothering by Heart on August 05, 2005, 12:03:01 PM
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Quote
Amy, ever have a bad day when you pick a fight with someone just so you can get all your angst out? Ever look to be provoked or take innocent things wrong knowing it had nothing to do with the innocent thing but you needed to just get the yucky stuff inside out?

Oh Yeah. I can totally see now what was happening. So, instead of letting my face fall and leaving when she asked if I can read, I should have said something like, "Yes, I read the sign but I really want to make sure you are okay. Is there anything you would like to talk about?"

And when I noticed the pattern earlier, I should have been more proactive in finding out the cause.

I just realized that when she came down and told me that she had removed the sign, I was "punishing" her by saying I would come up when I was ready Do you agree with that conclusion?

This was so out of character for her, so I can see that it was just "one of those days" but I didn't help her through it like I should have because she "should know better"

Well, I feel better knowing more how to help her through it next time





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Title: Re: Bad day with 9 yo dd. Long-ish and need feedback
Post by: singingmom on August 05, 2005, 12:10:27 PM
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I read your post earlier, but I didn't know what to say. I have similar moments with my oldest every now and then and I don't know what to do other than basically what you did. I tend to want to put him alone in his room, but I know that doesn't really help. So I'm exhorted and encouraged by Crystal's post and I plan to love him through the crud next time.

I do think you did very well staying calm in the face of her anger.




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Title: Re: Bad day with 9 yo dd. Long-ish and need feedback
Post by: ArmsOfLove on August 05, 2005, 12:38:34 PM
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Quote
I just realized that when she came down and told me that she had removed the sign, I was "punishing" her by saying I would come up when I was ready Do you agree with that conclusion?
Yeah, but don't beat yourself up over it It's more that feeling bad is a cycle and people who feel bad act bad. She felt bad so she acted bad and everyone she encountered ended up feeling bad and acting bad and pretty soon everyone's just feeling and acting bad By identifying the pattern you can choose to not take it personal next time and just not feel bad--assigning a positive intent means you can say, "Hey, she's being jerky but she's wonderful, something must be wrong"


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Title: Re: Bad day with 9 yo dd. Long-ish and need feedback
Post by: Mothering by Heart on August 05, 2005, 12:47:41 PM
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Quote
By identifying the pattern you can choose to not take it personal next time and just not feel bad--assigning a positive intent means you can say, "Hey, she's being jerky but she's wonderful, something must be wrong"

Got it Thank you so much


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Title: Re: Bad day with 9 yo dd. Long-ish and need feedback
Post by: 4blessings on August 05, 2005, 02:45:31 PM
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Great thread. Very helpful! I'm taking notes for future reference. I have similar situations with my 10 y/o sometimes. Thanks girls!


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Title: Re: Bad day with 9 yo dd. Long-ish and need feedback
Post by: mom2threePKs on August 06, 2005, 02:56:11 PM
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When my almost 9 yo dd acts like that (and yes, she acts just like that) I have found tht writing notes back and forth under the door can help unlock from the conflict and stat communicating again. I think it hels her feel like she has my undivided attention even with her sisters around. The notes usually degenerate into silliness :P then we can talk about things. Telling her tht although her behavior was attrocious, I don't think she is fundamentlly flawed or a bad girl seems to help break the pattern as well. Plus lots of hugs and kisses.

I feel so much better hearing that another 9yo dd has moments like mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Magan


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Title: Re: Bad day with 9 yo dd. Long-ish and need feedback
Post by: Mothering by Heart on August 06, 2005, 03:19:13 PM
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Quote
When my almost 9 yo dd acts like that (and yes, she acts just like that) I have found that writing notes back and forth under the door can help unlock from the conflict and stat communicating again

That is a great idea, Magan!


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Title: Re: Bad day with 9 yo dd. Long-ish and need feedback
Post by: Wake Me Up on August 06, 2005, 05:36:58 PM
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I notice this with my dd. The uglier she's being with me, the more she has something inside that she really needs to get out and talk about.

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Old 06-15-2007, 02:42 AM   #17
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Default Re: Collected Posts about "You Hit, You Sit" and General Posts about Hitting

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Title: You hit, you sit
Post by: mlrowley on August 04, 2005, 02:22:20 PM
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Can someone please tell me what this really looks like. We need to start this here. My biggest questions are: does it work for 2.5 y/o? What do you do if they get up from the sitting spot? Is the sitting spot in the room or outside it? Do you suggest an apology when ready to rejoin? What if the recipient doesn't want to be apologized too? I know, probably enough questions for 2 or 3 threads. Sorry. I'm really struggling with so many things right now. I need some more detailed, specific tools. Thanks for any input.

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: ArmsOfLove on August 04, 2005, 02:47:13 PM
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I used it with my 3yo but only because my older children were doing it also. I don't know how it would work with a 3yo if you didn't have older children. I wouldn't use it with a 2.5 yo myself.

The way I recommend approaching everything, including hitting, is to focus on *teaching* when they are young. Teach how to properly express frustration, how to use words, how to do an angry dance, how to make amends, etc etc etc. "You hit, you sit" is more in line with "correcting" and I'd use this with a child who knows better but makes a poor choice and exercises poor discretion.

When that's the case I have introduced the idea, and shown them the place (usually the couch, here) and I expect to spend the first couple of days moving them there and reinforcing this new tool. They sit until they are ready to "make amends" which usually includes an apology but even more includes doing something to make up for what they did (so a gentle touch to make up for the hitting).

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: greenemama on August 04, 2005, 07:10:54 PM
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henry is 3 and we've only recently being doing you hit, you sit. mostly so that i can help the baby that's been beaten on. and so that i can regain composure after feeling angry that he hit the baby.

when he's hit another kid i remove him from the scene entirely and we find a place to regroup. he calms down, we discuss it a bit, not much. i mostly ask questions about what hands are for, what he thinks he could do to make it up to the kid, etc., which, for us, is also normally a gentle touch.

jude is 14 months and i realize with him that i should have started working with henry sooner. i didn't realize that one so young could sort of get "gentle touches" when i'm teaching him *not* to hit. it's different with every kid, tho . . .

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: mlrowley on August 04, 2005, 07:28:40 PM
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Thank you. Dd will be 4 next week. They are so close in age I often do the same with both. I can see where this probably wouldn't work with ds though. How do you handle it when the one who was hit doesn't want to be made up to? DS will usually say "no me want gentle touch".

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: Joanne on August 04, 2005, 07:38:59 PM
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I've used it a lot with my daycare.

In reality, it's "If you hit, you obviously don't have the skills at the moment to play respectfully and therefore I must remove you from play in order to help you control yourself and keep those around you safe." But that's an awful lot to say to a young child.

I usually remove them from play, coach them on how to do better, elicit some kind of verbal agreement/acknowledgement and help them make amends to the injured person.

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: palil on August 04, 2005, 07:49:26 PM
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Quote:
How do you handle it when the one who was hit doesn't want to be made up to? DS will usually say "no me want gentle touch".
good question..[listening hopefully for answers] There are many occasions when my little 2yo spitfire will have none of it when his brother tries to made amends after hurting him..

I usually just acknowledge to the older son that he has tried.. say thank you or whatever.. and maybe observe that Levi is still angry and needs more time to cool down, and sometimes I will talk gently to my younger son "Caleb is telling you he is sorry.. can he give you gentle touch?" Sometimes phrasing it as "Will you forgive Caleb?" helps or encouraging Caleb to say "Will you forgive me?" Somehow that seems to operate as a "cue" for ds2 to accept a kiss and hug.. but not always.

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: greenemama on August 04, 2005, 09:00:12 PM
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i usually say, "he's not ready for a hug" or whatever it is henry is trying to do and suggest that we move on. henry's interaction with kids around his age is minimal, though, just cuz we don't know anyone. when it's someone else's kid and teaching them how to accept apologies is not my job then i let it go. but i do wonder about jude and teaching him to accept apologies, amends, etc. theoretically i think that everyone in their own parts of the house "cooling off" both the hitter and the hittee will aid not only in getting one to apologize, but in getting the other to cool down, not retaliate, and understand that everyone makes mistakes, etc. :/

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: palil on August 04, 2005, 09:27:20 PM
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and I was recently reminded in a different thread (about this very issue) that this is still a YOUNG age, and modeling and teaching behaviors is key.. not forcing kids to apologize or accept apologies.

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: Joanne on August 05, 2005, 05:35:29 AM
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Quote:
and I was recently reminded in a different thread (about this very issue) that this is still a YOUNG age, and modeling and teaching behaviors is key.. not forcing kids to apologize or accept apologies.
Is someone suggesting "force"?

I do believe the should usually be mentioned, suggested and nudged.

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: greenemama on August 05, 2005, 06:37:40 AM
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we model apologies all of the time. i don't force an apology, but i do remind him of "what he needs to say" and usually i say, "you need to tell x you're sorry for hitting." it's not a command, it's a reminder. if he's unable to do it he needs more time to regroup, IME. if he's ready to join the kids again or whatever he's normally more than ready to apologize, usually without a reminder. if he's not really ready, i can tell because he's still upset and refuses to apologize, kwim?

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: palil on August 05, 2005, 07:12:46 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
and I was recently reminded in a different thread (about this very issue) that this is still a YOUNG age, and modeling and teaching behaviors is key.. not forcing kids to apologize or accept apologies.
Is someone suggesting "force"?
Nope.. not that I noticed. I just mentioned it b/c I thought it was relevant.

When I'm trying to teach my kids to do something, and they refuse to try, it's frustrating and can be tempting to REQUIRE (or try to force) the behavior from them... but when they are very little, I need to just keep focusing on modeling, teaching, and coaching, and trust that they will get it when they're ready. <--- THat's what we talked about in a previous thread about this and it served as a good reminder for me, so I'm passing it on.

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: Joanne on August 05, 2005, 07:55:08 AM
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Quote:
it's frustrating and can be tempting to REQUIRE (or try to force) the behavior from them... but when they are very little, I need to just keep focusing on modeling, teaching, and coaching, and trust that they will get it when they're ready. <--- THat's what we talked about in a previous thread about this and it served as a good reminder for me, so I'm passing it on.
Gotcha. I agree. As my kids get older, I expect "more" in terms of social niceties and am willing to insist. But not when they are toddlers, early preschoolers.

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Title: Re: You hit, you sit
Post by: ArmsOfLove on August 05, 2005, 12:26:28 PM
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Oh, and if the offending party isn't willing to forgive at that time I have them take a break, go to the comfort corner, whatever until they are ready to forgive and I tell them to come let me know when they are ready. As for the not wanting gentle touches thing, I have the apologizing child ask what they can do to make it better--they might not want a gentle touch

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Title: Please Help- How do I stop the hitting???
Post by: euromom on April 16, 2007, 07:02:54 AM
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OK, I have been on GCM for close to a year now, and we have done the whole "Hitting hurts" "show gentle" "you hit you sit" etc... and still ds has this thing about hitting me, and just me. He very, very, very rarely ever hits dh, but about 3-4 days of the week we have to deal with it with me and I am getting so tired of it! It normally happens when something from HALT is lacking (normally overtired or hungry) and I know that, but still, it is unacceptable behaviour and I'm struggling getting it to end. A lot of the time it's when he wants dh's attention and not mine, and so we have tried things like "You need to use your words to ask for Tati, you may not hit mommy to get tati to come" and that lasted in about a 45min tantrum the last time. I'm not sure if we were being puntive or not by withholding dh's attention from him (until he used words and not hitting or hurting me) but we also don't want him thinking it's acceptable to hurt me to get his dad to come. This morning he started hitting me again when I took him out of our bedroom so dh could get up. I bear hugged him, I set him down on the couch and told him he could eat his dry cereal there (because I knew part of the prob was he did not have breakfast yet) when I had to bear hug him again, dh came and tried to talk with him. He would show "gentle" to dh (rubbing his face gently and then giving him a hug and kiss) but whenever dh asked him to show gentle to me he would only try to hit me again. What am I doing wrong and what can I do to teach him that this is not acceptable behavior???????

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Title: Re: Please Help- How do I stop the hitting???
Post by: purplerose on April 16, 2007, 07:09:42 AM
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When my DS2 was doing this I would tell him "it's ok to be mad, but we don't hit" I finally told him "When you are mad, hit a pillow and not mommy or someone else". So he started hitting the pillow when he got mad. Maybe validating his feelings about being mad more? Try the pillow hittting concept!



I know how frustrating this can be!!!!

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Title: Re: Please Help- How do I stop the hitting???
Post by: Joanne on April 16, 2007, 08:58:02 AM
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Quote:
I'm not sure if we were being puntive or not by withholding dh's attention from him (until he used words and not hitting or hurting me) but we also don't want him thinking it's acceptable to hurt me to get his dad to come.
Yes, witholding interaction at this age is witholding love. This creates a feeling of insecurity from which he can't access his best impulse control. It's counter productive.

What I'd do in addition to the practicing you are doing is to add praise for when he finds acceptable ways to get Dad's attention. I'd not over-do it, but mention "that was a great way to tell Dad you'd like him" and give a high five.

At his age and sensitivity to HALT; I'd make sure I had a lot of routine, structure and ritual in the home.

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Title: Re: Please Help- How do I stop the hitting???
Post by: euromom on April 16, 2007, 12:13:31 PM
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Quote:
When my DS2 was doing this I would tell him "it's ok to be mad, but we don't hit" I finally told him "When you are mad, hit a pillow and not mommy or someone else". So he started hitting the pillow when he got mad. Maybe validating his feelings about being mad more? Try the pillow hittting concept!
I've tried that, and an angry dance sort of thing, I'll have to try the pillows again..... Also, I notice that sometimes when I validate his feelings it just makes him more upset. I know it's not suppose to take away the feelings, just help him to recognize them, but it's like it makes him even more angry sometimes

Quote:
Yes, witholding interaction at this age is witholding love. This creates a feeling of insecurity from which he can't access his best impulse control. It's counter productive.
This makes sense. I guess I was just trying to teach him that using words is a better way of getting his dad's attention then hurting mom, but the adding in praise seems like a much better way of doing that!

Quote:
What I'd do in addition to the practicing you are doing is to add praise for when he finds acceptable ways to get Dad's attention. I'd not over-do it, but mention "that was a great way to tell Dad you'd like him" and give a high five.
Quote:
At his age and sensitivity to HALT; I'd make sure I had a lot of routine, structure and ritual in the home.
He is one that needs this and I do admit we are not good at keeping routine around here I do try to hold firm boundaries with him when nessesary (health, safety...) but it's hard to not always feel punitive, I think my attitude then slips into that sometimes and that too is counterproductive

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Title: Re: Please Help- How do I stop the hitting???
Post by: canadiyank on April 16, 2007, 01:09:42 PM
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I wouldn't use "You hit, you sit" with a 2yo...he's too young to understand that.

If HALT stuff is an issue I'd focus on that. Of course hitting is not acceptable, yet he's 2 and hitting is one of his ways of communicating his anger and disappointment. You may be ineterested in this (http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...topic=102617.0) discussion of "Dealing With Disappointment," particularly Ch. 2 (scroll down on the first page) and how to deal with the big feelings/hitting etc. in the moment. Not only do you need to stop the hitting, you need to teach him new skills other than hitting. Katiekind talked about one...hitting something else. I like large body mvt's for that age. Remember...these things need to be taught and implemented *before* the meltdown. Saying, "Let's do an angry dance," like you found out, is likely to *increase* their frustration if they don't recognize the angry dance as a calming tool.

Another thing I focus on with my 2yo (she hits her older sister) is making amends. Gentle hands and an "I'm sorry sissy," makes up for hurting hands. I've also taught my older dd to say, "You may NOT hit me - that hurts!"

I know it's tough. Very exasperating!
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Old 07-06-2007, 12:51 AM   #18
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Default Re: Collected Posts about "You Hit, You Sit" and General Posts about Hitting

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Title: Hitting at mom/dad
Post by: LittleSweetPeas on March 08, 2007, 03:56:01 PM
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I dont think this quite falls under you hit you sit.

DD is almost 4 and will when feeling frustrated hit at us. Usually she slaps at our leg while she's saying "I dont want to do that" or "You go put it away!" Its generally a hit followed by a command from her for us to do the exact thing we asked her to do.

her little sister is picking up on this now and will hit at us when we change her diaper or redirect or take something away from her.

I generally take her hand and firmly tell her "You are not to hit people. We do not hit in our family. Hitting hurts." and put her hand down and then we work on doing whatever action together. This doesnt always solve it and it keeps coming up. I'm just curious if there is something better that works for this frustration experience.

hitting sister or friends gets a definite you hit/you sit.


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Title: Re: Hitting at mom/dad
Post by: GotMyHeartFull on March 08, 2007, 04:06:28 PM
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I do 'you hit, you sit' with this as well. They sit when they hit a sibling, so why would it be different if they are hitting a parent?


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Title: Re: Hitting at mom/dad
Post by: Teribear on March 08, 2007, 04:06:54 PM
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Drop the we don't hit in our family, because clearly right now she does.

Try "I see that you are very angry. You may not hit. Hitting hurts." or "I hear that you would rather not do X. You may say ________________ but you may not hit. Hitting hurts."

Fill in the blank with whatever would be an acceptable expression of frustration.

She may be reacting to transitions. Some kids who are slow to transition need a bit more warning than just being told "Do x" if that is the case you might be able to say, "You need to wrap up what you're doing, its time to do X" and use the language of the 5 steps. It's stickied around here somewhere.


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Title: Re: Hitting at mom/dad
Post by: LittleSweetPeas on March 08, 2007, 04:11:41 PM
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I suppose I see the difference in that hitting her sister is generally out of anger or selfishness (I WANT IT!) and hitting me is because she is feeling a frustration that she's struggling to express in words.

I always give her a good transition time. She's just discovered this is pretty effective, especially in riling up Dad.




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Title: Re: Hitting at mom/dad
Post by: Teribear on March 08, 2007, 04:32:42 PM
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Quote
hitting me is because she is feeling a frustration that she's struggling to express in words
.

Exactly. So reflect feelings and give her the words you want her to use instead of hitting.


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Title: Re: Hitting at mom/dad
Post by: OpalsMom on March 08, 2007, 04:37:06 PM
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"You're angry. Hitting hurts. I won't let you hurt me. Find another way to be angry. You can..."
Which, in our house, is rapidly followed by "That's too close to me. If you're going to wave your arms around, take them further away from me."
She likes to hit *at* me without hitting me.

The trick of course is then not letting her hurt me (or wave her arms RIGHT next to me). Sometimes I separate us. Sometimes DH steps in. Sometimes I hold her where she can't hit. It depends on the situation.


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Title: Re: Hitting at mom/dad
Post by: ArmsOfLove on March 08, 2007, 07:32:52 PM
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two additional ideas: hug her when she's frustrated--help her feel safe; take her to the bathroom Honestly, my 4yo always had to go when he got like this.


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Title: Re: Hitting at mom/dad
Post by: hey mommy on March 08, 2007, 08:46:29 PM
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I tell C "I know you are frustrated(mad, sad, whatever), but hitting will NOT help. Use your words(another phrase I use A LOT)" if he continues, I hold his arms and tell him "I will not let you hurt me". And then if needed "Hands are for loving, not hitting. Do you need a hug?", which is usually followed by a sad 'yes..."


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Title: Re: Hitting at mom/dad
Post by: LittleSweetPeas on March 09, 2007, 03:15:42 PM
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Quote from: ArmsOfLove on March 08, 2007, 07:32:52 PM
two additional ideas: hug her when she's frustrated--help her feel safe; take her to the bathroom Honestly, my 4yo always had to go when he got like this.


Now that is interesting! DD struggles with chronic constipation and witholding and I have never thought about it but often when she is having behavior issues it is because she needs to pee or poop. Hmmmm....


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Title: Re: Hitting at mom/dad
Post by: canadiyank on March 09, 2007, 04:39:45 PM
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Your boundaries you've set are you...now to address the issues behind the hitting. If she's frustrated then she needs new ways (besides hitting) to express those and deal with the emotions surrounding them. You might find this (http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...topic=102617.0) discussion helpful, especially as we get into the chapters that teach new and alternative ideas for them to deal with the emotions.



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Title: so what DO I do when he hits? just a few questions.
Post by: poleidopy on March 08, 2006, 03:11:39 PM
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I was at my friend's house the other day and my DS (20 mo) kept hitting her DD (26mo.) When he would hit, I would say "No hitting! Hitting hurts!" and offer him a toy or move him across the room or to my lap. But it kept happening - not necessarily immediately, but often. What do I do? My friend told me to spank him or put him in time out (that's her method) and is appalled at my "permissiveness" Also, he has been very sick for a week & a half, so he is naturally more..."moody" shall we say, and quicker to tantrum. So he was also getting into her cabinet, which is unsafe. I told him to close it and get out twice. When he didn't, I got him and moved him to another area, nearby us, with toys. (The rest of us were eating dinner) He was upset and threw a big toy across the room, toward people. I picked him up, help him on my lap and talked in his ear telling him he was out of control and I was going to hold him for awhile. He eventually calmed down and I put him down and it was a few more minutes until the nest tired/frustrated tantrum. So my friend was SO excited that I was "disciplining" him, because she thinks I am so permissive and never do anything about his defiance. She was so happy that I "gave him a time-out on my lap for throwing the toy- a directly defiant action." Uh, ok. (That scares me -this friend is SO incredibly punitive, to have HER say I did a good job disciplining scares me that I might have done something un-GBD! ) He also got some bear hug/lap time when I picked him up from a 'situation" and he hit me. She thought it was intentional - I knew it was him being sick and tired and flailing about. Even if it WAS intentional, is it OK for me to have him restrained in my lap? Is that "discipline" enough? I don't see how I can be expected to hit him for anything, much less being sick and tired and acting out, but what CAN I do?

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Title: Re: so what DO I do when he hits? just a few questions.
Post by: SingingPraise on March 08, 2006, 03:28:39 PM
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We do three things. DS is now 2 1/2 and has really had hitting issues.

First thing is "Use gentle hands" and then I show him physically how to do that - we stroke the other childs head or cheek, pat gently on the back etc. We do this with animals/pets as well. "gentle hands" has become a mantra around here. I find it works better then "no hitting" cuz I feel like all he hears is "hitting".

Second thing is "you hit you sit".
I will move to a quiet corner of the room and sit with him in my lap and repeat "we use gentle hands. If you hit, you sit".
If we're at home, we go to the comfort corner (which in essence is a self time out) and sit until we are ready to come out and use "gentle hands" with our friends.

He is now old enough to say "sorry" so he is requested to do that when he hits as well.

When I've been with friends and he hits we go thru the three steps.
1. I show him gentle hands and how that looks while saying it. I kiss the other child, stroke their hair etc saying "gentle hands and kisses to our friends"
2. Remove him from the other child to a nother part of the room and reiterate "gentle hands on our friends" and if you hit, you sit. lets sit til you can be gentle
3. Have him say he's sorry when he's ready

If the hitting continues, we leave and I reiterate "we use gentle hands. If you can't use gentle hands we need to go home and not play anymore" . Its not permissive. Its firm. But its gentle as well.

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Title: Re: so what DO I do when he hits? just a few questions.
Post by: rdkkks on March 08, 2006, 03:34:56 PM
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kalli (17.5 mos) has been hitting quite a bit lately too...It used to be enough to show her to be gentle, and she would say "gentle" and be gentle to me or whoever she'd hit. now, she'll rub be gently once, then wind up and hit again. Sometimes I hold her on my lap (bear hug), but if she keeps trying to hit, I'll put her down and move away from her and say that if she can't be nice to mommy, she can't be with me right then. It's still a big battle, I'm not sure exactly what to do either.


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Title: Re: so what DO I do when he hits? just a few questions.
Post by: poleidopy on March 08, 2006, 03:46:44 PM
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Quote:
When I've been with friends and he hits we go thru the three steps.
1. I show him gentle hands and how that looks while saying it. I kiss the other child, stroke their hair etc saying "gentle hands and kisses to our friends"
2. Remove him from the other child to a nother part of the room and reiterate "gentle hands on our friends" and if you hit, you sit. lets sit til you can be gentle
3. Have him say he's sorry when he's ready
Oh, I forgot about that. We do "gentle touches." At the humane society yesterday DS was REALLY great about only using "gentle touches" but when around other children he forgets, I guess. SO I should JUST say "gentle touches" and NOT anything about hitting? When I remember I say "No hitting, hitting hurts! Use gentle touches!" and guide his hand to touch gently. Like rdkkks said though, it used to work for me to just say that once, now it lasts one pat or touch and he is back to hitting. I guess I need to do the "you hit you sit" part more though, maybe that's where I am being too permissive. Is 20mo too young to say sorry? I have DS hug the other child. He LOVES hugs and doesn't hesitate to hug. Is that an OK alternative to "sorry" for now?

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Title: Re: so what DO I do when he hits? just a few quest
Post by: Irene on March 08, 2006, 03:56:53 PM
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I think the hug is good for saying sorry the "no hitting, hitting hurts" just seems to egg my ds on so I have dropped that and I say "gentle gentle gentle gentle" okay, not that much but I do feel like I am saying it all day and I will hold him in my lap too.

with dd, the hitting was mostly at me, so I was able to walk away, but with ds, its not as easy because theres everyone else around.

I think you need new friends or at least give *her* some boundaries I cant beleive she goes on like that!
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Default Re: Collected Posts about "You Hit, You Sit" and General Posts about Hitting

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Title: "I'm going to hit you Mommy." How to respond?
Post by: klpmommy on July 11, 2006, 09:05:27 AM
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DD was way overtired today & when I told her that we were going upstairs to take a nap she said "I'm going to hit you Mommy". I asked if that was because she was angry and she said yes, she didn't want to go to sleep. I responded that I couldn't allow her to hit me, but she could use her words like she did & she could hit her pillow or the bed or even give me an "ouchie five" (ds's favorite thing is to give me a high five & me to yell Ouch! That hurt). She said she didn't want to do any of those things & came over & hit my bottom about 3 times. She has never been spanked & it has been a long time since ds was spanked- I think she picked my bottom b/c it was the easiest thing for her to reach. I didn't say anything at that point, just picked her up & took her to bed where I laid down with her while she fought me until she fall asleep. She normally doesn't fight sleep this hard, we have had a rough couple of days irt sleep (or lack thereof). Hoping she will take a good long nap & wake up in a much better mood.

But how should I respond to "I'm going to hit you Mommy" and being hit?


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Title: Re: "I'm going to hit you Mommy." How to respond?
Post by: pneumaphile on July 11, 2006, 09:40:30 AM
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I think you handled it great. I liked the way you gave her options, and validated her feelings, and got her need (sleep) met. Usually if I'm being hurt I move my body out of harm's way.


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Title: Re: "I'm going to hit you Mommy." How to respond?
Post by: Mamatoto on July 11, 2006, 09:53:17 AM
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I may have said, "No, you're not" picked her up and held her and said, "I know you don't want to take a nap, but it's nap time, let's go lay down together..."


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Title: Re: "I'm going to hit you Mommy." How to respond?
Post by: Joanne on July 11, 2006, 04:13:00 PM
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I think you did fine and your wording great. "I won't let you" is very important body language to teach.

If possible, I would have stopped her after the first hit or at the attempt.


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Title: Re: "I'm going to hit you Mommy." How to respond?
Post by: klpmommy on July 12, 2006, 10:33:00 AM
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I realized what my problem was with the way I handled this. I didn't *do* anything, ie I didn't punish dd in any way. I am pretty good at not feeling the need to punish these days, but this one involved being hit so I felt like I should do more than "just" meet her need for sleep & realize this was an unusual behavior due to being overtired.

Thanks for your help!


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Title: Re: "I'm going to hit you Mommy." How to respond?
Post by: Radosny Matka on July 12, 2006, 11:01:25 AM
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Quote from: klpmommy on July 12, 2006, 10:33:00 AM
I realized what my problem was with the way I handled this. I didn't *do* anything, ie I didn't punish dd in any way. I am pretty good at not feeling the need to punish these days, but this one involved being hit so I felt like I should do more than "just" meet her need for sleep & realize this was an unusual behavior due to being overtired.

Thanks for your help!


Anyone is inrrational when overtired, adults included. Since it was behavior out of the ordinary, you did great with your reaction. There is no need to punish. Our goal isn't to punish, it is to teach. You did just that - you held your boundry and let her know that your words have meaning - that she was going to sleep and that was final. I too would have done what snugglemama said, "no your not, it's time for bed." After being hit I would have stopped it after the 1st time and firmly said, "you may NOT hit mommy. hitting hurts. I'm putting you to bed."


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Title: Re: "I'm going to hit you Mommy." How to respond?
Post by: Heather Micaela on July 12, 2006, 11:06:00 AM
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I read the title and was thinking "at least you were warned" my dd just blindsides me.

Ok that didn't help at all, but you are not alone...


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Title: Re: "I'm going to hit you Mommy." How to respond?
Post by: klpmommy on July 12, 2006, 11:51:32 AM
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I realize that the way I stated this was not the way I meant it.


Quote
I realized what my problem was with the way I handled this. I didn't *do* anything, ie I didn't punish dd in any way. I am pretty good at not feeling the need to punish these days, but this one involved being hit so I felt like I should do more than "just" meet her need for sleep & realize this was an unusual behavior due to being overtired.

What I meant was I realized why I was questioning how I responded. It just seemed too easy in a lot of ways,kwim? I didn't need to punish b/c once she got her nap in she was much more normal.

The three hits were very quick. My hands were full & I was putting stuff down. I really couldn't have stopped her after one hit, I don't think. But maybe if I hadn't been so stunned that she actually hit me I might have been quicker.

thanks again


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Title: Re: "I'm going to hit you Mommy." How to respond?
Post by: TulipMama on July 13, 2006, 11:59:51 PM
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Quote
I realized what my problem was with the way I handled this. I didn't *do* anything, ie I didn't punish dd in any way. I am pretty good at not feeling the need to punish these days, but this one involved being hit so I felt like I should do more than "just" meet her need for sleep & realize this was an unusual behavior due to being overtired.

I totally understand. I still sometimes feel trapped by my thinking that wants a cause-and-effect reaction that is punishing. *hug*

You did great. Stated the situation and boundaries, reflected feelings, and dealt with the root issue. You enforced the boundaries as best you could (ie, hands full, surprised by the actions--didn't get to restrain her from a repeated swat) but you still enforced the boundary and dealt with the root issue.

The only thing I would add (though you might have done it! *Grin*) was as we were settling for the nap, prayed silently or outloud for wisdom in this situation. Sometimes praying aloud helps my children calm and the Lord uses it in their hearts. Sometimes praying silently is what we need most. . .

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Title: Where can I find "You hit, you sit?" Don't know how it works...
Post by: jmme on October 01, 2006, 09:54:34 PM
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I did a search and well I couldn't find it

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Title: Re: Where can I find "You hit, you sit?" Don't know how it works...
Post by: canadiyank on October 01, 2006, 11:13:08 PM
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Hmmm....maybe we could start a sticky for that!

Crystal...can you explain? I've used it modified, mostly pulling the hitter off to attend to the hittee. The main premise, as I understand it is to put some space in between them, allow them to calm down, and then make amends when calm.

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Title: Re: Where can I find "You hit, you sit?" Don't know how it works...
Post by: HomeWithMyBabies on October 02, 2006, 04:36:27 AM
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I have a tough time with this one too. I've tried it a few times before but wasn't sure what I was doing and it didn't work.

I let ds pick where he wants to sit, but he spends about .001 seconds there before he's up again and ready to resume hitting. Maybe he's too young for it to make sense?

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Title: Re: Where can I find "You hit, you sit?" Don't know how it works...
Post by: canadiyank on October 04, 2006, 10:27:49 PM
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Bumping...I'll bring this to Crystal's attention....

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Title: Re: Where can I find "You hit, you sit?" Don't know how it works...
Post by: ArmsOfLove on October 04, 2006, 10:40:19 PM
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I thought we had a sticky

Basically, when children get into it and someone hits/hurts I intervene and move them physically, if necessary, and say, "You hit, you sit. Go to the couch until I come to you." Then I make sure the other person is okay--check them physically, listen to their side of things, reflect and validate AND find out if they provoked the aggression. Then I go to the hitter and calm them down and hear their side and reflect and validate. THEN I bring both calmed children back together and encourage them both, if necessary, to make amends for whatever wrong they did to each other.

the purpose is to stop the encounter immediately and to unravel the knot so that we can retie the bow together

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Title: Re: Where can I find "You hit, you sit?" Don't know how it works...
Post by: Mamatoto on October 06, 2006, 06:48:34 PM
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How often do you do this in a day, Crystal? Does this happen a lot with your kids?

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Title: Re: Where can I find "You hit, you sit?" Don't know how it works...
Post by: jmme on October 06, 2006, 07:21:07 PM
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Aha... Thanks so much Crystal! Do you also talk to the kiddos about having gentle hands and feet and that it's not okay to hurt brother/sister? Also, what are some good words for me to use to validate and reflect my children's feelings?

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Title: Re: Where can I find "You hit, you sit?" Don't know how it works...
Post by: ArmsOfLove on October 06, 2006, 07:26:53 PM
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well I start talking about gentle hands with my children when they are babies. I use the wording of the 5 Steps as soon as a baby reaches up and smacks me or grabs my hair while nursing. I take their hand in mine--gently but firmly--and say, "Gentle mommy. Gentle touches only." And then take their hand and stroke me gently while I'm stroking them gently. I also take their hand and gentle them (I remember when Joanne made "gentle" a verb )

I talk to my toddlers about it and have them "try again" with gentle hands. That is often part of making amends--a gentle touch replaces a harsh one.

I try to get into situations before someone hits or gets hurt so I don't end up doing this that often at all. My most aggressive child has been my 4yo (he is still working through his feelings over the trauma of the babies' births ) and I'm more likely to grab him into a bear hug and help him calm down than to you hit, you sit him--but I've done that when I need to tend to someone who is hurt. Maybe 2 or 3 times in a week Most weeks once, maybe. But I've worked with my children to use boundary setting language to tell him when he needs to stop what he's doing, when something hurts, when they don't want to play a certain way, etc. And they get me if he's *getting* aggressive so that I can help him calm down.

With reflecting feelings, I simply state what I observe. "you are angry. You didn't like . . . " "You are upset. I can see that you are feeling very tense." "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk" is a book
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Default Re: Collected Posts about "You Hit, You Sit" and General Posts about Hitting

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Title: Need help learning effective responses to non-compliance.
Post by: gandpsmommy on June 20, 2006, 12:48:47 PM
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[excerpt from a longer post about various issues]

Also, sometimes one of them will hit me. What is the appropriate response for this?

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Title: Re: Need help learning effective responses to non-compliance.
Post by: Wonder Woman on June 20, 2006, 02:32:03 PM
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With the hitting, this is pretty common from what I understand! Right now I'm really working on teaching my ds "You will respect Mommy's body boundaries." I'm teaching him that by when he hits, I make that statement, and I remove A: myself from the situation or B: whatever object he is hitting me with from the situation. I tell him "You may not hit me. I will not allow you to hit me." Currently, his drumsticks are on top of the fridge. Me taking them away resulted in a meltdown, which ended in a whimpering, overtired little boy (the reason for the acting out in the first place!) snuggled up in my lap and drifting off to sleep.

When he wakes up, he gets a ''try again" where he will be permitted to have the sticks. If he hits me again, they will quietly disappear for a couple of days.

Not as punishment, but because I am modeling for him that people who are healthy do not permit themselves to be hit.

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Default Re: Collected Posts about "You Hit, You Sit" and General Posts about Hitting

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Title: Hitting
Post by: MommaRhe on June 28, 2007, 10:28:12 AM
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I'd like to know how others handle their children hitting. This is a new one for us - our first didn't hit. Our little one has started a few months ago. (she was 2 in March)


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Title: Re: Hitting
Post by: Susan K on June 28, 2007, 11:34:40 AM
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My 3 year old ds was a hitter. I held his hands gently when he was trying to hit me. I would say that you are not allowed to hit mommy.
On the play ground I would stay near him to try to stop him from hitting others. If he did hit he would sit in my arms for a bit.
He has got much better.
Susan
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Title: Re: Hitting
Post by: OpalsMom on June 29, 2007, 11:31:19 AM
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If DD hits me (tries to hit me, hits at me, etc...) I say "Hitting hurts. I won't let you hurt me," and move to make that true. Then we discuss what she CAN do for whatever she's trying to do. If she hits somebody else, much the same thing. She needs to come away until she's ready to make amends (make it better, whether or not she says she's sorry) and she has to tell me what she's going to do instead of hitting next time. (At 2, I told her what she could do, and our notions of making amends were simpler.)

When she's not in the thick of it, we discuss options for what you do. If somebody does something you don't like, you say (or sign) "Stop! I don't like that!" and you move away if necessary, get adult help...

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Title: 19 month old hitting
Post by: rowansmom on July 27, 2007, 09:50:19 AM
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He usually isn't aggressive when we are home all by ourselves. He'll hit in play, but we always stop him and tell him to be gentle and he does.

But when we go outside to play, there arethree little boys and two little girls. all the boys are older than him by 1-2 yrs and one girl is his age and the other is a year. He will randomly at times just lightly smack the ones younger than him. without even looking at them sometimes, he'll be doing something else and if they are near his swinging arm they get hit.

the older boys, he hits all the time. mostly because I think he's trying to claim his domain??? but if he tries to play with them (and they are very possesive boys when it comes to their toys and their parents don't correct it) but when DS tries to play with them and they whine or tell him to leave or walk away from him, he'll hit them.

at the library the other day he would reandomly go up to kids and just hit them (all younger than he is) but the older kids he'll again try to play with them and because they don't understand him they ignore him and then he hits.

he talks, but not much and has his own language, (which the pedi is not concerned about) I have put him in time out, but he laughs at it. the only thing that seems to get the message across is to shut the sliding glass door while he watches all the kids play. (he loves being outside) but when we are say at the library, what do I do? how do I communicate to him to stop this?

I feel awful when he does this to otherkids and their parents make me feel like I'm not diceplineg him enough (not because I don't spank, they don't spank much if at all) but because I don't say no all the time. Instead i use re-direction and model good behaviors, like saying Be gentle and then show him how to be gentle, or tell him, "Htting is not nice, you made so and so cry, now give them a hug and say you are sorry" He gives hugs and kisses he loves to do that. I don't think he's a violent kid, I don't think he's dissobedient, but others parents call him a bully.

I'm frustrated with their parenting skills (one 3 yr whines about eveyrhting and anytime he cires it';s always the others kids fault and then he gets what he wants) but I don't want to look like an awful parent in front of them.

any suggestions to help me understand a little more as to why he's doing this? how to stop it? and maybe how to better communicate witht he kids and parents about his hitting?


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Title: Re: 19 month old hitting
Post by: ArmsOfLove on July 27, 2007, 04:47:37 PM
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it sounds like he's trying to set some boundaries and get some space. I'd work on teaching him signs or words for "need space"


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Title: Re: 19 month old hitting
Post by: joy on July 31, 2007, 07:23:33 PM
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Is he trying to figure out just how to "be" with them maybe - how to connect with them? My DS is just about the same age, and he is nervous around other kids to the point of avoiding them (he seems to get pushed down in the frolicking... I'm surprised that he hasn't started hitting too, I guess.) In order for my guy to feel comforable around other kids, I sometimes need to stay close by at the beginning and let him change his focus from me to the other kids at his own pace. Or I'll kind of invite one child to do what we are doing if one of them toddles over interested in whatever we have going on. From there I talk to them both and try to set a sweet tone. I just need to help keep it mellow initially. Maybe your DS is nervous like mine but is showing it in a different way?

I really hope the other parents aren't giving you bad vibes about it. A toddler hitting is pretty normal behavior - or at least this mom thinks so.


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Title: Re: 19 month old hitting
Post by: Littledisciples on July 31, 2007, 07:32:05 PM
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My toddler does the same thing. I re-direct I say gentle touches and gently stroke her arm to show her how to be nice. I think it is a normal behaviour at this age but frustrating too.


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Title: Re: 19 month old hitting
Post by: HomeWithMyBabies on July 31, 2007, 07:52:07 PM
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Sounds normal. I think some kids are still playing with cause and effect at this age, and working out where they end and other people start. I'd apologize to the other kid for your ds, and explain and demonstrate gentle touches with ds. Watch him very closely, there are often signs before the actual hit occurs and maybe you can step in before it happens.


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Title: Re: 19 month old hitting
Post by: rowansmom on August 01, 2007, 07:29:19 AM
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I don't think he's nervous. He loves kids. He'll beg to go outside when he sees them out there. BUt I think maybe it is more cause and effect. but he did start hitting me and my husband this week. We've tried talking to him, but I don't see any recognition in his face that he did something wrong.

I've stopped him from hitting many times, and we always go up to the kid he hits and I appologize for DS and then ask DS to give the kid a hug because he gave him a boo-boo, and it wasn't nice.

hopefully it's just a stage, but I really don't think, after watching him, thats it's out of violence, maybe frustration, but not malice

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Title: Re: 19 month old hitting
Post by: Joanne on August 02, 2007, 06:34:28 AM
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Quote:
I don't think he's nervous. He loves kids. He'll beg to go outside when he sees them out there.
It's likely both. He can easily be very excited about playing with the kids but too immature (appropriately, he's so little) to deal well with the excited energy in his body.

Quote:
feel awful when he does this to otherkids and their parents make me feel like I'm not diceplineg him enough (not because I don't spank, they don't spank much if at all) but because I don't say no all the time. Instead i use re-direction and model good behaviors, like saying Be gentle and then show him how to be gentle, or tell him, "Htting is not nice, you made so and so cry, now give them a hug and say you are sorry" He gives hugs and kisses he loves to do that. I don't think he's a violent kid, I don't think he's dissobedient, but others parents call him a bully.
The people around call a toddler a bully? I'd stop that *immediately*. I would, however, drop the "hitting is not nice" and even making him give a hug (which is an uninvited physical interaction). "Nice" is a vague concept to very young children. I'd shorten it and act more quickly: "No hitting. Hitting hurts". Move him away or temporarily have him removed from play.

Quote:
I'm frustrated with their parenting skills (one 3 yr whines about eveyrhting and anytime he cires it';s always the others kids fault and then he gets what he wants) but I don't want to look like an awful parent in front of them.
Stop worrying about how you look as a parent. It's a heavy burden to carry.

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Title: 3 yo swatting/hitting at people
Post by: lovinmama on May 16, 2007, 09:34:13 AM
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Ds is apparently swatting or hitting at people and my family is complaining. Well, when they play with him rough he really gets into it, so what do you expect? Of course he's going to get more aggressive. And the other part is when he's not ready to interact with people he kind of swats them away. I've been saying "let's be gentle," but I think that he's trying to set some sort of boundary at that time. Like, "I'm not ready to visit with you right now, give me my space." I want ds to be able to set boundaries for himself in a healthy way..........so any ideas?

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Title: Re: 3 yo swatting/hitting at people
Post by: lksparks00 on May 16, 2007, 10:02:08 AM
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can you give him some words to use instead of the swatting? I try to use the words "respect my boundaries" and "I'm not ready now" for dd in place of swatting/hitting. I'm sure others will have much better scripts, but I"m just getting started with this stuff.

And I've always found it sooo frustrating when an adult plays rough with a child, and the child ends up hitting someone or breaking something, and it's the child who gets in trouble. Hello! The adult started it and shoulda' noticed when the little one was approaching an outa' control state. I usually tell the adult not to instigate

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Title: Re: 3 yo swatting/hitting at people
Post by: lovinmama on May 16, 2007, 03:03:02 PM
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Thanks Laura, it is soooo frustrating when the adults can't even stay in control with the child!! But I'll to be more creative and give him some words to use...

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Title: Re: 3 yo swatting/hitting at people
Post by: canadiyank on May 17, 2007, 08:12:23 PM
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Yep, determining the reason behind the hitting is sooo helpful. Still not acceptable, but there's a difference in how you'd help a kid who was hitting b/c he needs space, vs. angry, vs. excited, etc.

I would say, "Stop! Owie. Say, 'Stop, I'm done.'" or something appropriate. Practice at a neutral time. Of course, the other kid may not always co-operate, but you are giving him real tools. Then address what to do if the kid *doesn't* stop. Stand near mommy? Move your body away? etc. Something that's acceptable to you and he can remember. And then practice that, too.

HTH!

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Title: Re: 3 yo swatting/hitting at people
Post by: Amber on May 18, 2007, 02:23:25 PM
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I have been teaching Cole to say "Stop, I don't like that!" in those situations where people aren't respecting his boundries. Of course he has yet to say it and usually just whines for me, but we are working on it. I also use the same phrase when he is getting too rough when playing with me (or Kyle) in hopes that he will learn that everybody has boundries that need to be respected.

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Title: Re: 3 yo swatting/hitting at people
Post by: Joanne on May 21, 2007, 08:16:59 PM
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Quote:
Ds is apparently swatting or hitting at people and my family is complaining. Well, when they play with him rough he really gets into it, so what do you expect? Of course he's going to get more aggressive.
I have 2 seemingly contradictory responses to that. The first is that I found reserving rough play for one select male (Dad is best!) teaches children, especially boys, how to be a boy but have physical boundaries. Discourage/disallow wrestling/physical play from others.

The seemingly contradictory response is to make sure that the rough play really *is* a contributing factor or a problem. It's common enough for moms to be "too" wary of physical play. Children need it; especially boys.

Quote:
And the other part is when he's not ready to interact with people he kind of swats them away. I've been saying "let's be gentle," but I think that he's trying to set some sort of boundary at that time. Like, "I'm not ready to visit with you right now, give me my space." I want ds to be able to set boundaries for himself in a healthy way..........so any ideas?
You have given your own answer. As suggested by the others, speaking the words for him "I'm not ready to visit with you right now, give me my space." That's perfect.


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Title: Re: 3 yo swatting/hitting at people
Post by: chelsea on May 23, 2007, 08:46:41 PM
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Ds used to scream (very, very loudly) to let people know he needed his space (too many strangers touching his hair or relatives just teasing him, etc.) I told him (sometimes over and over) that we don't scream at people, but if someone was doing something he didn't want them to, he should say "No thank-you!" to them. The only problem came in where people didn't respect his "No thank-you" and that's where I would step in and loudly say (looking at ds but spoken in the direction of the person not respecting his boundaries ) "GOOD JOB! WE SAY NO THANK-YOU WHEN WE WANT SOMEONE TO STOP, DON'T WE?!!" People always get the hint after that.
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Title: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: gracieannsmom on June 08, 2007, 02:29:20 PM
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I have told her that it is not okay to hit, it is not okay to kick...she needs to use her words, etc. We have gone over this again and again and again. So my neighbor picks up my dd and her dd from preschool today and told me that while they were at a stop sign, my dd punched her dd in the face.
I am so embarassed and absolutely at wits end with dd. I took her up to her room and sat down with her and explained (once again) why we do not hit or punch or kick. I asked her why she did it, she said she didn't know. I asked if her friend said something that made her mad, she said no. So now I feel that this has gone far enough...hitting is one thing but taking a punch at someone is a different story. I feel like a punishment needs to take place. What should I do??? I have her in her room right now until dh comes home and we can talk about what happned again.

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: J3K on June 08, 2007, 02:32:52 PM
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How old is she ? Nearly four according your siggie , right ?

I think part of it is age , part of it may be diet , and even another part , just not knowing what to do with big feelings.

Maybe Crystal will pop up and share some advice.

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: gracieannsmom on June 08, 2007, 02:35:09 PM
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Yeah, she's almost 4. I hope Crystal comes on too because this has gone far enough. Whether age appropriate or not, I feel that some sort of consequence needs to take place. She has to understand that the behavior is unacceptable.

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: J3K on June 08, 2007, 02:46:01 PM
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Does she get enough physical activity ? Maybe if she had a focus ? I'm sorry I'm not much help.

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: Natalie on June 08, 2007, 02:49:24 PM
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I'm subbing in, because Samantha is slapping, cheerfully, and I cannot figure out how to stop her. She slapped a good friend across the face so hard it left a mark, and then later in the day slapped a child in a doc's waiting room, when the child wouldn't let go of a toy. He thought they were playing tug o' war.

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: joyful mama on June 08, 2007, 02:53:51 PM
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i have a hitter, too. Its no fun.

We do 'you hit you sit' every.single.time.

we have her make ammends (usually its a hug, and an offering of a toy...), apologize (when she's ready). We've left places if she's warned once and it continues. We also focus on diet and avoid hfcs and refined sugars...

really, I think its a phase thats annoying, frustrating and embarassing. dd was also a biter and outgrew that. Its extremely rare for her to bite now.



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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: Natalie on June 08, 2007, 03:43:26 PM
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Could you go into more detail as to what "You hit, you sit" looks like?

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: teamommy on June 08, 2007, 04:02:15 PM
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My 5 yo was a hitter. From about 2.5, to about 4.5. The worst was 3.5-4, then it slowed down a lot. Then it was screaming and throwing (but not at people). Now we are just at the unpleasant verbal response stage By that I mean that these thing have been his primary way of responding to frustration, and we work on teaching him better ways to express himself. I felt like a broken record for a few years. It just takes a long, LONG time for it to sink in for some children, I suppose.

He hit another child only twice (otherwise it was within the immediate family), and when that happened I encouraged him to apologize right away; when he didn't I apologized for him but later I explained about showing remorse and apologizing, and also Crystal's idea of making amends and on his own he came up with the idea of drawing a picture to give to the dc to say sorry, and he did that and we stopped by later to apologize.

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: euromom on June 08, 2007, 04:34:00 PM
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subbing in also as I also have a hitter. One thing that's helped somewhat is we got him a boardbook titled "Hands are Not for Hitting" He's a bit younger though and I think the book is more for toddlers (Natalie maybe your dd would like it? I think from your siggie she is about ds's age?) When he hits I have him sit and ask him "What are hands used for" he first replies "Not for hitting!" and then I ask him again what hands are used for and we go through some of the things from the book "hugging, helping, eating and drinking, playing and building" etc... He does still hit a lot. Just hoping this will sink in one day as we repeat over and over what hands are suppose to be used for.

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: Natalie on June 08, 2007, 04:41:48 PM
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We have that book. It makes no sense to Samantha. :/

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: euromom on June 08, 2007, 04:44:15 PM
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Maybe when she is a few months older Ds is just a month or 2 older and we just got it for him a few weeks ago.

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: gentle_answer on June 08, 2007, 07:59:07 PM
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My DD is a hitter, pincher, pusher, etc. She has been since her newborn fingers could find my neck or arms.
I've noticed it's worse when she has to pee. Sending her to the bathroom works wonders.

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: ArmsOfLove on June 08, 2007, 08:12:33 PM
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I really do understand how frustrating this is

The thing is . . . she is not developmentally able to understand the consequences of her actions--that requires logic and that isn't going to kick in at a pre-level until around 8. Which means, she does not *get* that when she hits it's going to hurt someone. She just knows that feelings build up in her and explode out her fist. The only way to get this to stop is to supervise supervise supervise and to learn the signs that she's about to explode. Prevent it where possible. If she needs space then make sure that she isn't spending a lot of time with people in her space or they are likely to get hit. If she needs to eat to keep her blood sugar regulated make sure that she is eating regularly or someone is going to be punched. If she is hyperfocusing and not aware of when she needs to pee, or ignoring the cues her body is giving her until she has antsy rage building up in her body, then make sure she goes pee regularly (and don't ask if you see the signs because she'll likely say 'no' as she doesn't believe she *needs to* pee ). If she has food sensitivities then make sure she gets NO exposure to those foods or she will not be able to control herself and then talking with her about it will be like trying to convince an addict not to do what they do when they are drunk.

A punishment simply isn't going to *teach* her anything. Punishments are about making the child suffer and feel bad so they won't do what they did again--but people who feel bad act bad so a punishment is counter productive for inducing better behavior.

For a child this age who is hitting I'd do lots of things--even in addition to what I put above. I'd have her outside as much as possible and doing things to get her big muscles compressed. I'd be doing deep massage--especially in her hands. I'd have her doing kinesthetic play with play doh, shaving cream, clay, or other things that get her hands busy (kneading dough is great ). I'd have her doing lots of water play if she calms in the water. I'd work with her on using her words and offer her scripts for the things that set her off. "I need space" "I want to be alone" "I don't like that" "Stop" and when I'm around I'd enforce her boundary very quickly. I'd talk with her about what she can do if you aren't there and something happens---get another adult in charge, move away if she can, etc. I'd teach her to hit something like a pillow--with children this intensely into hitting I say "Hit pillows, not people!" and give them a pillow to hit. I'd get her something like a worry stone to keep in her pocket so that she can use her hands and rub them to get tension out. I'd have her moving moving moving. If the drive home from school is hard I'd have her go to the bathroom before heading to the car and do 10 jumping jacks before getting in, and have a worry stone to rub so that she can keep her hands busy, and make sure she's armed with a script of what to say to the other mother if she needs help.

hth

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: nurse_reedle on June 08, 2007, 09:55:52 PM
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Hitting is such a problem here that we have inacted the "You hit, you sit" thing. There is no required time and it puts instant distance between the hittee and the hitter. Isaac is two and not very verbal yet, so this captures his attention and gives him a place to regain his focus. Then we cuddle as soon as he is ready....usually after 2 seconds. I am encouraging kisses or sorry for making amends at this point. So far, he will only make amends with me and no one else. If her hurts someone else, he still want to make amends with me LOL. So far, this is working the best.

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: ArmsOfLove on June 08, 2007, 11:12:01 PM
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I'm not really hearing anyone using "You Hit, You Sit" as a replacement for time out, but I wanted to make sure and talk about this a bit since a few people have mentioned it

The point of "You Hit, You Sit" is to remove the hitter from the hittee and put a distance between them. This does a few things--it allows you to check on the child who was hit and make sure they are okay and gives the hitter a chance to calm down and collect themselves. It puts an abrupt stop to the hitting and the situation that led to it. The thing to remember is that children who hit are provoked. We may not understand what provoked them, or think that hitting was justified, but in their minds they were provoked. I try to make sure that one thing I do in the process is ask them what provoked them and address better ways to respond as well as teach the other child a better way to communicate their point. Often it was someone in their space, or someone grabbing a toy, or saying something that hurt their feelings. These are problems that need to be addressed also

The child who hit does need to make amends, but often the child who was hit needs to make amends first. If they provoked then they wronged the hitter also. Separating the children gives me a chance to get both of their stories and try to find the reconciliation approach that will be best for all involved.

If the child is too young to make amends or tell me their story then I may still do this if it's chronic or if I need to make sure the child who was hit is okay. But I'd get them as soon as I can and make sure they are okay also. the interesting thing about young children who hit is that they really don't understand that their action hurt the other person--and if they realize they have hurt someone they usually feel terrible about it. I once watched a 3yo barrel across a room and slam into their friend. The child fell over and began crying and the child who had hit into them burst into tears and was terrified because their friend was hurt. Lacking logic he really didn't anticipate that happening and didn't realize he had caused it

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: nurse_reedle on June 08, 2007, 11:26:20 PM
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We do it because he is hitting US and he won't stop without distance. It gives him a second to collect himself and then we can move on. I don't know how to address his "issues" though since he is so little and they involve not getting what he wants LOL

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: ArmsOfLove on June 08, 2007, 11:51:57 PM
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what you're doing is fine You could also put him into a very comfortable bear hug pulled into you and talk calmly into his ear about reflecting feelings and setting boundaries "You may not hit me" and my children especially appreciate me saying " I am bigger than your big feelings. I can keep you safe and keep you from hurting me"

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: nurse_reedle on June 08, 2007, 11:58:53 PM
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He loves being hugged, EXCEPT during crisis....then he freaks out really badly and starts thrashing around. I value my face a little bit LOL So we just hug afterwards. Is this all we need to do at this age? We can't make him understand why he can't have something, but we do explain the best we can.

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: ArmsOfLove on June 09, 2007, 12:05:00 AM
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I would explain and then stop explaining. Sometimes at this age children perceive us continuing to explain as trying to convince them to change their feelings and they can resist that. They also believe that we have power so if we really wanted to we could So I try to state the answer and the reason and then reflect their feelings about it.

Mostly, though, it's about giving him time to mature

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: Allison on June 09, 2007, 05:15:41 AM
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My 3 year old is a hitter, too, when he's upset. He has to be provoked, usually by his older brother, but he will punch hard if his is. When he's upset with dh or me, he will smack us sometimes. I see it as being so upset but not knowing what do with the feelings and not remembering to use words.

My oldest went through the hitting stage like most kids, but giving him a pillow to hit instead and teaching him how to express his feelings helped. By 3-3.5 he didn't hit anymore. Even now, when his little brother hits him, he never hits back. Its like the urge to hit is just not present in him.

I have a feeling that urge will always be present with my 3 yr old. My oldest has the urge to scream, yell and slam doors instead. LOL

You hit, you sit is good but I have trouble being consistent with it. :-\

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: Novella on June 09, 2007, 05:29:23 AM
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Thank you so much for this information, Crystal My DS is a hitter to me and DH. I started just yesterday giving him the "you hit, you sit" and it worked. Within 30 seconds, he came to me and said "i'm sorry mommy" I really appreciate the words you have offered here. I feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: MarynMunchkins on June 09, 2007, 05:39:31 AM
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So you think once Bug turns 8, the logic will kick in and he'll stop hitting?



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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: Natalie on June 09, 2007, 06:20:45 AM
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We started you hit, you sit yesterday. My kids are both so just toddlers. I swept Samantha up last night, after she slapped Simon, sat her in the chair, and told her, "If you hit, you have to sit." Before she can start expressing her displeasure with this idea, before I can turn around to go get the crying Simon, he is elbowing his way between me and Samantha so hard that he nearly knocked me over. He gave me the oddest look, apparently not at all happy that I had stolen his sister away from him.

this thread continued in next post. . .
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Old 10-01-2007, 01:42 AM   #23
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. . . continued from previous post
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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: Joanne on June 09, 2007, 09:46:16 AM
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I have about 2 seconds to post, so I'm going to cut and paste from a draft:

Aggressive and Physical Behavior

Aggressive and/or physical behavior is often one of the first challenges that parents face after the infant months. It makes complete sense. The child is growing cognitively and has a desire to communicate those feelings and thoughts. At the same time, the child is becoming more aware of his/her body, it’s abilities and power. Add to that mix limited impulse control and limited verbal ability and the fact that a child expresses themselves phsycially is not a surprise. It’s important to understand and acknowledge that it’s age expected. If we do not expect the behavior, we are more likely to react with anger towards our child.

It’s important to also remember that we do not want to stop physicalness in our children, we want to direct it and help them manage it. Their little bodies are exploding with emotionally fueled energy. We can’t stop that. Instead, we need to find ways to make available appropriate physical expression.

However, as with other age expected behaviors, the fact that it’s common does not make it acceptable. Children in this stage need coaching, clear boundaries and proactive approaches.

This chapter will present several common aggressive or physical behaviors along with both proactive and responsive tools.

Biting

Biting is a common behavior in young children. It’s one that parents react strongly too, both the parents of the biting child and the parents of the children who get bitten. In my daycare, I experienced the most passionate responses from parents over issues involving biting.

Some children are more prone to biting than others. You’ll see biting emerge around the 1 year mark and disappear around age 3.

Many children who bite have a high oral need for stimulation. They seek sensation using their mouth. If you can increase appropriate stimulation to their mouth, you can decrease the frequency of biting. There are several ways to do this. You can increase the chewy foods a child eats, such as fruit leather or bagels. Increase spicy foods such as sausage or salsa. Offer hot or cold foods, such as smoothies or soup. Finally, have the child use a straw often.

When biting does occur, remove the child from the immediate area. Say “No biting. Biting hurts”. Look at the situation, and if you can identify what the bite was used to communicate, offer substitute words. Coach the child to say “I need space” or “I’d like a turn” or “I’m angry”. If the child is not yet verbal, you can use baby signs.

For the toddler or younger, offer a designated toy for biting. “You may not bite people, you may bite this.”

If your child continues to bite with frequency, you will need to provide constant and arms reach supervision until your child has moved out of this stage.

Hitting

Hitting is a very common way for young children to express themselves. As young children with very big emotions, they are just learning how to manage the energy behind their emotions.

Children hit when they are threatened, thwarted, excited, angry, frustrated, tired, and because it’s exciting.

Proactive discipline tools for a hitting child include: coaching, role playing, naming feelings, sensory/texture play, routine and baby signs. Making sure your child gets plenty of outdoor and large motor play helps, as well.

As far as responsive discipline tools, you need to stop the child and remove them if needed. Tell them “No hitting. Hitting hurts”. Avoid saying “We don’t hit”. It’s an inaccurate and confusing phrase to your child. Obviously, they do hit. They just did. Instead, stop their arm and tell them “I won’t let you hurt me (or that child). I will help you follow the rules.”


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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: gracieannsmom on June 18, 2007, 08:36:54 AM
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Finally! I can reply!! Everytime I log on it's during the weekend "non posting" time! These are all good suggestions and it's good to know that I'm not alone in this. I think I need to print out some of the suggesions because I tend to forget when a situation arises.
I have to say that the problem started to escalate over the last few days. Grace was playing with a friend and I had to run upstars to change the baby. As I was coming back down I hear screaming. Grace had pinched her friend. I removed her from the situation and explained that pinching is not okay, it hurts. But whenever I try to do any teaching with my dd she just talks right over me, changing the subject and that just raises my blood pressure like you wouldn't believe. Even if I wait until later to try to explain what went wrong, she still doesn't listen. Today I was trying to praise her for making her bed all by herself and she just spoke over me again. She doesn't want to hear what I have to say.
Over the weekend, I had my neighbor over for coffee and her dd and mine were watching a movie together. The girls started having a disagreement about the seating arrangements and my dd scratched her friend so hard that it was bleeding. My house is set up so that you can't see the kids in one room if you're in the next. I realize I should have been in there supervising so a lot of it is my fault. But, my friend and I were having a cup of coffee and were drinking it in the kitchen because there isn't enough room in the living room when the kids are watching a video. Anyway, I feel embarassed just pulling dd aside and telling her she may not hit/kick/spit/pinch, etc...because it happens so often I feel like a broken record and nothing changes and the behavior doesn't change.

I should have posted this in the high need forum because dd is a classic example. I'm wondering if I need to get her seen by a dr. because she is SO hyperactive that I sometimes wonder if something is wrong. She pops out of bed at 6:30am and is jumping around like a mexican jumping bean all day. Even right before bed at night she's bouncing off the walls. She refuses to nap or even have a quiet time. I offer to read books but she's up and moving around in five minutes. I have a very, very hard time being around her all day. A lot of the time when she hits or hurts a friend it seems to be in the afternoon when she's tired. Not always, but a lot of the time. Other times I'm not sure what the trigger is.

She also makes her own agenda and if it doesn't go according to her plan she has a fit. For example, last night she wanted to play in the sprinkler, so dh said he'd set it up. Immediately she said "I can go play in the water and my friend can come over and we'll play together then I'll go to her house and we can play some more". I said "no honey, all daddy said is that he would set up the sprinkler for you. You're making up your own plan but that's not what mommy and daddy said" This happens all the time and its a problem when she does it and her friend doesn't want to go along with it....that might be another reason for the hitting

Anyway, I know some of this is off topic but it was on my mind and I wanted to share it.

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: canadiyank on June 18, 2007, 01:41:39 PM
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For the talking over I'd say, "Stop. You need to stop your mouth and listen to mama." Teach her about interruption and what to do..."If you want to say something while mama is talking say, 'Excuse me, please.'" Or, have her put a hand on your arm. Don't make her look in your eyes, as some people try to do that so they know the kid is "listening," but it can be shaming and is often the only time a parent makes direct eye contact. Instead I say, "You need to keep your body still and listen to mama's words."

I'd also try some side-by-side stuff playing with her and bring things up. Say, if you're playing side-by-side with blocks you could bring up a situation that might happen. "Let's pretend Lilly was going to grab your blocks...what are some things we could do?"

This whole discussion might be helpful, but right now you might find the "what to do in a crisis" section in Chapter 2 (http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...hp?board=231.0) of Dealing With Disappointment helpful.

AFA her telling you what is going to happen, like in the sprinkler scenario, she's firmly in the "words are magic" stage and thinks if she says it it's going to happen. With my dd I said things like, "Oh, that would be fun, wouldn't it?" "You wish that could happen, don't you?" (said sympathetically). She'll likely respond loudly that that's what IS going to happen. I would matter of factly say, "Today daddy's putting it up for you. Maybe another day we could have Jane to play."

Before Jane comes to play I'd review about "gentle hands." I'd also get her to make amends by giving gentle touches and a verbal apology. This may have to wait a few mins. while she calms down, but it's an important part of the teaching.

You might also find this thread on 3 yo's (http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...topic=110105.0) helpful.

HTH!

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: gracieannsmom on June 18, 2007, 02:39:33 PM
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Canadiyank, I love your suggestions! Why does it always sound so simple when someone else says it? Why don't I think of these things

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: canadiyank on June 18, 2007, 09:58:26 PM
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Thanks, I'm glad it was helpful! ITU about other peoples' suggestions feeling helpful...sometimes we just need a fresh pair of eyes looking at the situation, kwim? That's what makes this community so fantastic, I think, the group brainstorming and hugs!!

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: Auroras mom on June 22, 2007, 08:45:42 AM
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Crystal, when you say that the child who was hit was also wrong and needs to make amends first, I feel instinctively against that. My daughter is a frequent victim of a couple of children, one in particular. My daughter is 15 months old and the hitter is 23 months old. What my child does to provoke her is simply exisiting. My daughter will be in "her space" because we are at her house, and she will walk up and whack my baby over the head, oftentimes so unexpectedly that we can't stop it before it happens. Why should my child make amends? How was she wrong? Same thing for when they are fighting over a toy - my daughter may select a particular toy and start playing with it, and this child comes up and whacks her. I am not saying my child is a saint, heavens no - she hits us and has hit another child when she wanted a chair he was sitting in (and I feel he was an innocent victim in that situation, and she was the wrongdoer...).

But anyway, I feel in these situations, at least with small toddlers, that usually there is one responsible person. Is my child "wrong" ffor being there? Should I take her home then and not inflict her presence on others because they might feel territorial and hit her?

I am trying very hard to learn how to deal withthis hitting problem, both as parent of a victim and of a hitter.

I also do not like the forced amends making. I need someone to explain this to me. When I was forced to do this as a child, it felt VERY shaming. It also was not sincere. Can someone talk to me about this forced amends making stuff for small children, and how it jives with AP and GD?

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Title: Re: Dd's hitting is NOT stopping
Post by: canadiyank on June 22, 2007, 11:26:53 AM
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Tonya - I'm not Crystal (she's out of town right now) but I'll address your questions. First, you'll notice Crystal said *if* the child provokes they need to make amends. This is not always the case. What she was addressing is the fact in a lot of dynamics there's a hittee who actually provoked the situation. I've seen that with my dd's - the older one will collapse in a heap b/c the younger one hit her. In fact, she's just been harassing Aliah until she hit. In that case, both sides need to be addressed...certainly the hitting is wrong, but so is the harassment. Does that make more sense?

Here's a quote from her post above. I don't believe she's talking about unprovoked hitting except to say that the child who hits *feels* that way, whether or not your child did something, swim?

Quote:
The thing to remember is that children who hit are provoked. We may not understand what provoked them, or think that hitting was justified, but in their minds they were provoked. I try to make sure that one thing I do in the process is ask them what provoked them and address better ways to respond as well as teach the other child a better way to communicate their point. Often it was someone in their space, or someone grabbing a toy, or saying something that hurt their feelings. These are problems that need to be addressed also.

The child who hit does need to make amends, but often the child who was hit needs to make amends first. If they provoked then they wronged the hitter also.
If the other child is too territorial and you are unable to protect your child while she's there and the other parent is not stepping in, then I would not go. She doesn't need to be a victim. But at the same time, that child is learning, too, and it's an opportunity to begin teaching about space and boundaries. At that age the children may do parallel play, but they don't actually play together...so most things devolve into territorial things and hitting simply b/c they *are* too young to share and play together. They need separate activites that can be well-supervised near you. Another option is to meet at a park or something where there's less space/toy issues.

We don't force amends. I know a lot of us were made to do forced apologies, but that's not what we're talking about here. I've actively taught my dd's what's expected, that that hurts and they need to use gentle hands, kind words replace harsh ones. Tossed off "sorry's" don't cut it and that's not "making amends," although apologizing can be part of it.

I know I can't force my child's heart, but I actively encourage them to think of ways to help the other feel better. If they can't do it right then, often b/c they are too worked up and as of yet unrepentant, I'll step in and make amends for them. Usually later we'll talk about it and I'll say, "What could have you done to make it right in this situation?" We've even gone back much later to family members and made amends.

So, we don't force, but I do encourage them to think of how their actions affected the other person and ways in which that could be changed. It's simply part of our day, I'm teaching them to be responsible for their actions. It may not be perfect or perfectly authentic, but it's the beginnings of compassion and taking responsibility. There's lots of times as an adult I'm not particularly sorry, but I was still in the wrong and have to take responsibility for my actions. And there's lots of times, like Crystal mentioned, that the kid doesn't realize he's actually hurt someone! Yet, there's still actions that need to be made right. Does that make more sense?
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:28 AM   #24
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Default Re: Collected Posts about "You Hit, You Sit" and General Posts about Hitting

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Title: saying "ouch"
Post by: kosmom on March 24, 2005, 01:44:56 PM
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I liked Joanne's advice on another thread about giving very descriptive boundaries (like "sharp!" "hot!" "ouch!", etc.) And we do that with our 19 m.o. He is very good at recognizing "hot". And sometimes it stops him in his tracks if I say "that's dada's, not kaemon's". MOST of the time he will not pursue it, unless he's just really tired or feeling really determined
However, the "ouch" thing is kind of wierd. He knows what it means. I think. But last night, while I was nursing dd, he was stepping on my bare feet (at first, accidentally) so I said "ouch. hurts mama" And he kind of stopped, but the second time he did it and I said "ouch, hurts mama!" a little more firmly, he looked down at my feet, stepped on them, and said "ow" "ow, ow, ow" almost like he's wanting to get the response out of me. So it makes me want to stop saying "ow". Those little Nikes HURT!!!!

Any other way to teach a child that they are hurting you, without actually hurting them? (Which is the only advice I had ever gotten before GCM...if they bite you, bite them back gently...if they pull your hair, tug on theirs....) I want to find a better way, but I also want him to stop hurting us intentionally. And at least it is not very often that he does this, and it's never "his" idea to start it...he does it as a response to an accident. So maybe, in a way, he is exploring what "hurt" is all about, and will eventually "get it"? It's almost like he's conducting an experiment to see what happens when he steps on toes, presses on heads (his baby sisters), squeezes wrists, "drums" on my legs, etc.

Any ideas?

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Title: Re: saying "ouch"
Post by: Quietspirit on March 25, 2005, 06:48:18 AM
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He is very young. And you are right in that he is figuring it out by doing. That's very normal developmentally.

You can tell him, holding his hand or foot firmly, "NO. Hitting (stomping, biting) hurts!" Make it firm not gentle. He needs to hear it in your voice (not yelling of course...more like lower and firm) that this is different than game time, play time, cuddle time, etc. By using a lower firm voice combined with "NO. Hitting hurts" while physically stopping him he should get the message. You can also move away from him while he does it. Not out of the room of course, but several feet away.

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Title: How do I handle this?
Post by: Mama Rophe on February 10, 2006, 10:35:36 PM
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My 19 month old will hit and bite us. It is not done out of anger sometimes frustration. Mostly he does it when he is playing. We tell him that hitting isn't right. But he just laughs and contunues to do it. What can we do to help him stop this?

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Title: Re: How do I handle this?
Post by: milkmommy on February 10, 2006, 10:49:39 PM
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Hitting and biting whie playing or other forms of aggression (even if not intentional) with mommy means mommy stops playing and walks away for a bit. Its inaapropiate so we stop.

Deanna

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Title: Re: How do I handle this?
Post by: lavender mom on February 10, 2006, 11:47:30 PM
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My 16 month old DD does this on occassion (she also does it in anger, but that's a different thing!) When she's doing it as a sort of rough play, we say "gentle pats." Usually that's enough to change her behavior, but sometimes well also pat her gently to show her what a "gentle pat" is.

When she bites in playfulness, we tell her to give us kisses instead ("gentle kisses") , and that seems to help her too. I'm sort of surprised that this one works, but I've used it with both kids, and it hasn't confused them.

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Title: What is developmentally appropriate for an 11 mo?
Post by: sadiesmommy on December 20, 2007, 11:32:22 PM
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DD has been hitting me, the dog, DH, and everyone for a few months. I've thought it was just infant jerky motions and exploring her world, so all I have done is say "gentle," and given her the sign for gentle. She looks at me, but it doesn't seem like she really gets it. Lately she's been hitting me, scratching me, etc. When I tell her to be gentle, with a sad look on my face (sometimes I say, "That hurts mommy.") she sometimes thinks its funny and does it more. If I were of the *other* persuasion, I would think she was being defiant, but I don't *think* she is. Is she? And if so, what do I do to help her stop this? It's hurting all family members, and even little buddies at play group.

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Title: Re: What is developmentally appropriate for an 11 mo?
Post by: OpalsMom on December 21, 2007, 11:35:00 AM
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I only do "gentle" if it looks like the kid is trying to be gentle and is accidentally being too rough. I mean, if I'm MAD or even just EXCITED, gentle touching just doesn't get at what I'm trying to express...

Here's what I do, and what I did starting when she started hitting people. I said "Ow! That hurts! I don't play with people who hurt me." Then I separated us enough for her to get the point. When we got together again, I would show her an acceptable way to express what I thought she was trying to get at; she could hit an object if she was mad, she could play pattycake or high-five or sign "play" if she wanted to play.

She's not being defiant. She's not capable of being defiant. She's experimenting. But that doesn't mean she gets to hurt people.

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Title: Re: What is developmentally appropriate for an 11 mo?
Post by: graceful mama on December 21, 2007, 11:45:13 AM
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good response so far...

For us, I would help her pet the dog gently and show her how that makes him soooo happy! (very animated).

I had the problem of her laughing when hurting me clamping down hard nursing - I also had to remove her - I would say sternly "Ow! Biting hurts mommy!" and quickly place her down and turn my back on her. Sounds terribly rude, but anything else got laughs so... After a minute she would be upset and I would pick her up and love on her and say "I love you, but you can't bite mommy". She learned very quickly.

I also used the "You hit you sit" from Dr Sears. If she was hitting, I'd warn her, distract her etc, IF she persisted in hitting. I would calmly say "Ok, you need to sit in your chair and calm down for a minute. You can play with mommy again when you are ready to be gentle". That worked very well from even b4 a year old. No set time or ignoring her - just a place for her to calm down (like a high chair or swing). As soon as she asked to be picked up again, that was ok. We would talk about being kind and practice gentle touch. If they find that hitting separates them from you, they learn quickly that it's not acceptable. But of course, not separate in the sense of rejection. We have always used a chair as a place for her to calm down. Even now, she will sit there and start praying for Jesus to help her be calm and kind or to obey or whatever. So cute! It's not a negative thing in her mind.

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Title: Re: What is developmentally appropriate for an 11 mo?
Post by: gentlebirth on December 21, 2007, 11:52:22 AM
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What she's doing is totally normal for her age. She's really incapable of empathy yet, because she's still learning cause and effect for her own body. At that age, what we typically do is say a gentle, firm: "No! Ouch! That hurts", and then involve her in another fun reaction game (since playful reaction seems to be what she's wanting). Distraction or redirection is your best bet. Peekaboo, nose honking games, reacting is a crazy way to a repetitive gentle touch from her...all good ways to give her the fun she's wanting.

ETA: TBH, at 11mo, I doubt she lacks the ability to connect "you hit you sit" with her actions, because she's not really losing control. She's just using an immature, baby way to get your attention. You can enforce your physical boundaries and fulfill her need for attention painlessly by giving her another appropriate game.
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Old 06-11-2009, 05:04 AM   #25
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Default Re: Collected Posts about "You Hit, You Sit" and General Posts about Hitting

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Title: She's hurting us!
Post by: TuneMyHeart on May 03, 2007, 02:45:03 PM
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Ellie is beating us up. Even the poor dog and cat are getting abused. I'm assuming this is normal for a 14 month old, and I've been showing her how to gently touch us and the animals. For a while, when I said "Be gentle," she would softly rub me. But lately she's just throwing herself onto us, pulling hair (especially when she's on my back), smacking and kicking us while playing... Yesterday, she was so mad when I tried to put her in her carseat, so I stopped and let her nurse. She bit me! Today, she pulled the cat's hair and without even thinking, I smacked her hand. I honestly can't believe I did that. What else can I do?

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Title: Re: She's hurting us!
Post by: OpalsMom on May 03, 2007, 02:55:55 PM
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The trick is to show her other ways to do what she wants to do. If she wants to roughhouse, being gentle may not be enough; if she's mad, it's unlikely to be satisfying. So she needs a way to be wild without hurting you, and a way to be mad without hurting you. Foot stomping and hitting the carseat worked for us at that age as ways to be mad.

As for the cat and the dog, they don't understand roughhousing, so it's pretty much "You need to be gentle with the animals or not be near them. It's not safe."

As for biting when nursing, that's how DD taught me that comfort nursing was not her idea of a solution for anger. (She was younger than your DD then). How do I know that punitive discipline is not immediately effective? She had to bite me 4 times before I got it, and if biting a nipple isn't punitive, I don't know what is! Anyway, unless you have good reason to believe it usually works, I'd drop the comfort nursing for anger.

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Title: Re: She's hurting us!
Post by: TuneMyHeart on May 03, 2007, 04:26:38 PM
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Thank you so much, that makes sense. I didn't realize the comfort nursing while angry wasn't working. I'm so used to nursing her when she's upset. She's bit me a few times lately and it's always when she's comfort nursing. She's a huge comfort nurser.

I really have to pay attention to her when we're playing or I just about lose an eye. Today she hit my nose so hard that I thought for sure it was bleeding. She's just playing and being silly though. Does a 14 month old have complete control over their body?

Any ideas on how to teach her not to pull my hair while on my back? It's getting frustrating. I can give her a toy or something to hold, but it isn't long until she throws it down.

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Title: Re: She's hurting us!
Post by: abbzchld on May 03, 2007, 04:30:31 PM
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My 16 month is into head butting and bloodied my nose tonight.

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Title: Re: She's hurting us!
Post by: BornFreeBaby on May 03, 2007, 09:27:45 PM
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It doesn't seem to me that my almost 14 month old has an impulse control. The hitting seems to be an expression of her excitement or her way of trying to get her energy out. I don't think that she can really control it at this age, like her super he-man strength grip- she just grabs my arm (or other nipple not in use) and yow! she can really squeeze the heck out of us. What I realize having the older one, is that this is a stage and it will pass- its very very normal. I just try to tell her what to do and show her how- then change whatever we were doing to another activity. Sometimes the hitting can also be an expression of her frustration with me or the situation and she doesn't know how to verbalize it.

It will pass!

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Title: Re: She's hurting us!
Post by: mamaKristin on May 04, 2007, 01:34:59 PM
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A lot of times, little ones get frustrated by their lack of words to express themselves, so they use their bodies (hands, arms, legs and teeth) to do what their words cannot. Doesn't mean it's ok, but that it's not abnormal either.

Does she show a pattern as to what sets her off? Is she frustrated? Tired? Hungry?

I know when my kids were at that age, they would often be more physically expressive, and I had to tighten up my personal boundaries to keep myself safe, and from reacting badly in return. A hit was generally met with a "you may not hurt mommy", while moving out of range. Physical hurting would stop our games or play temporarily to show that the behavior was unacceptable. Not in a mean way, but just a "you hit mom, mom stops the game" kind of way.

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Title: Hit me with ideas, ladies - 18 mos. and, well, hitting...
Post by: canadiyank on June 25, 2006, 04:37:12 PM
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Ok, dd2 is almost 19 mos. and starting the hitting stage...I need a refresher course on what to do! Mostly it's directed at dd1 for no discernable reason; dd1 then falls apart, screaming and crying (which I tend to see as overreacting), which exacerbates the problem. We've taught dd1 to say, "Stop, that hurts! Gentle, gentle." And usually dd2 pats her or hugs her, making amends. But I just can't figure out why she's hitting, other than she's 18 mos.

Oh! She *just* did it. Apparently dd1 was in her path. I did the "sympathize with the victim, correct the aggressor thing" and it seemed to work. I forget - is this just one of these things she'll outgrow and I keep up with the constant reminders? LOL! I haven't dealt with this in years!

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Title: Re: Hit me with ideas, ladies - 18 mos. and, well, hitting...
Post by: hsgbdmama on June 25, 2006, 05:27:58 PM
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Set expectations, set expectations, set expectations and repeat them often.

For example, I had an issue with ds1 when going to the library -- he'd haul off and hit another kid if they took something away from him.

So what I did (and this requires absolute consistency from me as the parent) was to set the expectation(s) and the consequence(s) and repeat them often; so using my example:

Once or twice before we got in the car to go to the library, I would tell him that he is not to hit anyone and to play nicely, otherwise we would leave.
Stated the expectation in the car on the way there.
Stated the expectation once more when we parked.

Then follow through. Ds1 got one warning and if he did it again, I followed up with the action of leaving -- yes, we left with him hollering. Yes, I had to physically pick him up and carry him out, with him hollering. But with consistency, he knew I meant business and he started abiding by the rules.

There were times when I was not consistent, and I definitely saw the difference. :/ So to help set him up for success, I made sure I was being consistent.

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Title: Re: Hit me with ideas, ladies - 18 mos. and, well, hitting...
Post by: hink4687 on June 26, 2006, 08:31:45 AM
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Jodi-
At what age do you think they really start understanding this though? My DS is almost 16 months and we're having hitting problems too (and pinching, biting, etc). I've been pulling him away from the situation and holding him on my lap while I tell him not to hit people, we touch softly and showing him how. He sometimes seems to get it because he'll go back and touch real softly and other times he just goes back and hits again. But my deal with leaving is I really don't think he'd care at all, so I don't feel like it would really make a difference because he never seems to mind change in scenery. And I know this may be a dumb question but at this age can he truly understand if I tell him in advance. I usually do tell him everything regardless if he understands or not because I know at some point he will but isn't he still a bit young? I'm obviously a FTM here!

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Title: Re: Hit me with ideas, ladies - 18 mos. and, well, hitting...
Post by: canadiyank on June 26, 2006, 09:19:07 AM
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It's ok if he doesn't mind a change in scenery...it's not supposed to be punishment, but a way to alleviate the situation, if that makes sense. I do talk to her, telling her things in advance, not sure if she completely understands, but it's good training for me. She does say, "Yeah" in response.

I'm remembering Joanne said to find the reason behind the behaviour and address that...I think in our case it's frustration, so I'm trying to think of things that can address that...

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Title: Re: Hit me with ideas, ladies - 18 mos. and, well, hitting...
Post by: OpalsMom on June 26, 2006, 10:22:51 AM
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With my DD, "Don't hit" (however you phrase it, including "be gentle", "soft touch", etc. etc. etc.) never worked. I suppose sheer repetition might have succeeded eventually. What did work was to figure out what her goal was, and offer her an acceptable way to that goal. Something angry to do when she was angry; a vigorous way to ask to play when she wanted to play; words when she's frustrated... When we couldn't figure out what her goal was, we tried suggesting things (usually active, vigorous things) either on wild guesses at her goal or just pure "something else physical you could do". Usually we got a kind of hot-and-cold calibration out of that (like if you suggest an angry dance and she give you the "what drugs are YOU on" look, that probably wasn't the right answer...)

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Title: How to GD a 16month old.........
Post by: purplerose on January 09, 2007, 01:03:03 PM
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who hits, bites and throws toys all the time at me. He only does it to me. It's when he is mad and/or frustrated. And he chucks toys HARD!!! He will hit me, bite me and has even thrown himself on the floor and bang his head. I've tried to gently, but firmly tell him "NO. Hands are not for hitting", etc. But he just gets madder and does it more. So then I whip out the boobie and let him nurse for a minute and then he's fine. He's starting to do it to the other kiddos and I don't like it. HELP!!!

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Title: Re: How to GD a 16month old.........
Post by: ArmsOfLove on January 09, 2007, 01:09:02 PM
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how verbal is he? what have you done to focus on teaching him how to communicate and get his needs met?

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Title: Re: How to GD a 16month old.........
Post by: gentlemommy on January 10, 2007, 11:39:44 PM
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When dd hits or bites, it's hard for her to just stop that behavior. So I sometimes redirect it. "No you may not bite mommy. That's owie for mommy. If you need to bite, you may bite this book." I was worried it might be confusing for her but she recently started to bite me, shook her head, and then grabbed one of her board books to bite down on.

Also...are you doing sign language? That helps dd communicate and cuts down on her frustration levels.

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Title: Re: How to GD a 16month old.........
Post by: canadiyank on January 11, 2007, 11:51:26 AM
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For biting, could he be teething?

For hitting, I stop, redirect, and try to address the behaviour behind the hitting. "Stop hitting, owie...let's high five!" And then try to determine the cause behind it, "Wow, you're angry! Let's jump up and down to get the angries out."

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Title: Re: How to GD a 16month old.........
Post by: purplerose on January 15, 2007, 12:53:29 PM
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Thanks for the replies everyone. Sorry it's taken me so long to get back. I've tried to ask my baby what he wnats when he gtes like this " Do you want nursies" Do you want juice? Eat? ETC. No, I don't use sign language with him. When he does bit or hit, I will say "No. Hands are not for hitting. If you want to hit, hit this pillow". I will tell him "Biting and hitting hurts mommy". He will only do it to me. It's getting better, now that I'm trying to understand what he's trying to tell me! It's frustrating with a 16 month old who can't really verbally commyunicate.

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Title: Re: How to GD a 16month old.........
Post by: canadiyank on January 15, 2007, 01:59:19 PM
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Just a small note, I read once that small repetitive movements (like hitting a pillow) actually build stress, whereas large body movements (jumping, dancing, running, etc.) relieve stress, so I have found it helps to suggest the large body mvt's instead of hitting (I understand what you're saying - this is better to hit than mommy ) but actually to help calm him and learn how to self-calm large body mvt's are more helpful.

Glad things are going better - it really does help when you realize they're trying to communicate something.
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Default Re: Collected Posts about "You Hit, You Sit" and General Posts about Hitting

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Title: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: DanceThen on April 11, 2008, 11:49:39 AM
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I am trying so hard (in my own mind that is) to gently discipline my kids. But the SCREAMING and the HITTING I see from my 2-y-o drives me insaneo! And I KNOW the other moms we play with (who are all VERY good friends of mine) think I am letting him off too easy after he hits one of their kids and/or screams in their faces.

(When that happens, I tell him to stop his hand/voice/offending-part and I also make him stop if he does not immediately stop himself. Then I tell him that hitting hurts (or screaming hurts or ears) and I point at the kid he offended and say "look at his face; you hurt him" OR "hitting hurts" or "he is sad because he is hurt!" but then after that I kind of am at a loss. I have Pie-oh-my say "I'm sorry" but I KNOW it doesn't mean anything to him, and Pie LOOKS sheepish but it doesn't really stop him from exhibiting the behavior, again, like 20 minutes later. ARGH!)

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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: CapeTownMommy on April 11, 2008, 12:58:53 PM
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My dd is younger than either of your dcs, so take what I say with a pinch of salt, but here goes:

I would encourage "gentle touches" after hitting - either on you (show Mommy that you know gentle touches, come on, touch Mommy gently, OK now remember that's how you touch your friends) or on the offended party - have them offer a hug, maybe?

Also, if the behavior gets repeated, I'd institute a consequence - if you can't play without hitting your friends, you have to sit here by Mommy so that Mommy can help you stop yourself from hitting. Or something related to the reason for hitting - if you can't share your toys without hitting, the toys get put away for a while. Something like that.

I don't think you're being permissive, but having clear consequences for hitting or screaming will also help your friends see that you're not letting him off without consequences.

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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: OpalsMom on April 11, 2008, 01:07:59 PM
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I would shadow your child, looking for what sets him off. Then intervene BEFORE he hits or screams, and provide a replacement behavior. He doesn't like kids getting too close? Coach him to move away. He's reacting to them taking toys? He can say "I don't like that", he can play with something else.

If you can't prevent it, you should still look to see what's triggering it and provide some other way to do what he needs to do.

Just trying to get him to stop isn't going to work. He needs to know what to do instead. (And his next 20 guesses are going to be as bad as his first 2!)

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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: DanceThen on April 14, 2008, 08:02:20 PM
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Thanks gals, that is super helpful. I just needed a couple more things to remember to focus on -- now I just need to print out your responses and glue them to the wall of my kitchen. Thank you!

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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: Susan K on April 16, 2008, 05:25:56 PM
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My soon to be four year old ds was a hitter. I kept a close eye on him. When he hit he would need to spend some time with mommy. To many times of hitting then we would go home. It does get better.

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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: NovelMama on April 18, 2008, 08:20:18 AM
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Hey girl! This is the first time I've seen one of your posts.

Does he do this more at playdates and such, or does he do it with Pants and daycare kid too? If it's mostly a playdate thing, then maybe it's the excitement of seeing friends, or the chaos of a bunch of kids running around, that is setting him off--like, it's an energy release, you know? In which case, maybe modeling other ways to release energy--jumping, dancing, etc.--would help.

Also, I think I saw a book at Borders called "Hands Are Not For Hitting" or something like that. Anyone else ever seen that and know if it's any good? Maybe reading that (like, once or twice a day!) would help.

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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: DanceThen on April 25, 2008, 08:19:14 PM
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Ooops, I start these threads with great enthusiasm and then totally forget about them.

Well, it's escalated. He hits with his hands or with whatever toy he happens to be holding; he "bumps" (sidles up to and then throws a shoulder or elbow at), and once he's got the other kid on the ground, he LAYS ON TOP OF THEM.

He also bit his sister twice this afternoon, leaving dreadful welts.

He only bites Pants. The other kids, he "bumps" and hits.

He usually shows some remorse immediately following. He will say he is sorry and show a "gentle touch" (if they even let him get close to them, that is) -- he will run and get that child's fave blanket or toy to help them feel better... but he doesn't STOP the behaviour!

Much of the time it is totally unprovoked and unpredictable. He will just go up to a kid and whack the kid on the head. Ouch!!

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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: Amber on April 25, 2008, 10:35:24 PM
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If this was happening with my two year old I would right with him at all times, so that I could intercept his aggression (I know that is easier said than done )

I would also start making my expectation very clear. On the way to a play date I would go over the rules, then again before going inside. After the first aggression I would let him know that if it happened again we would have to leave...and stick to it. I know it isn't fair to your other child to have to leave something fun because your ds is acting out, but this will pass and it is so much more important to keep everyone safe.

Have you looked into any possible food allergies? I know that dairy, for one, can cause some pretty big behavioral problems. As can some food dyes.

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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: ArmsOfLove on April 25, 2008, 11:05:09 PM
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he is communicating with the only way he knows how. He needs more space than he's getting and he is protecting his toys. IT's not fair to remove him without equipping him to set boundaries more respectfully. He can be taught phrases or sign language for "I need space" "That is my toy" and to ask you for help

If he's a hitter give him an appropriate way to get his hitting out. A pillow or a boppy. I wouldn't have him say he's sorry because he probably isn't. But I would make sure *I* apologize for him and remove him from play until he's ready to apologize *and* make amends.

Start looking for the motivator for the hitting and that will be a big clue into what is going on in your little guys' mind

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Title: Re: Argh, the futility!!
Post by: DanceThen on April 26, 2008, 12:43:22 PM
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Good stuff, one and all. Thanks.

We don't "do" food allergies in my fam (meaning we have been fortunate so far -- and meaning I hadn't considered that!) Thanks for the info; I'll do some research.

He does speak VERY well so I bet I could teach him to say what he's feeling.

I do need to keep a closer watch on him -- of course that is difficult but it's worth it (and by writing it down here, I'm more likely to hold myself accountable, if that makes sense).

AJ, I have heard of that book but only in the context that it's somewhat inaccurate: Teeth ARE for biting... FOOD. Feet ARE for kicking... a soccer ball. But I could rephrase it (it's not like he can read). I should definitely try to find a copy.

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Title: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: hink4687 on April 19, 2006, 08:30:29 PM
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My DS has starting slapping my face when he's in the sling. He thinks its funny and I have no clue how to stop this. I've been taking his hands and placing them on my face and saying touch gently please but he just thinks that's even funnier and slaps me harder. He's a very hyper little guy and I feel like this is probably age appropriate (I just started reading "your one year old" by ames). But one of my biggest issues is he always does this when we are out and about and I feel like other people are thinking, my goodness momma...get control of your child! I want to be a gentle mom but in the midst of it I'm afraid I'm becoming too permissive. How do I find this balance? Ok...rambling off on a whole different topic...

Anyone have any specific suggestions on how I should deal with his behavior?

Thanks!

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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: the princess kitty on April 19, 2006, 08:36:49 PM
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My dd was the same age when she started doing things like that. I wouldn't hold her when she did. I put her down and told her she hurt me, and I was not going to allow her to hurt me. It helped. She has gotten the message.

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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: hink4687 on April 19, 2006, 08:47:22 PM
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That sounds great in theory but how do you do that when your walking through the mall or somewhere like that. I don't wear him all that much at home unless he's super fussy that day so I'm typically always out and about and since he can't walk I can't just put him on the ground in the middle of the grocery store. kwim?

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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: raisa on April 19, 2006, 08:53:20 PM
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I try to watch for signs that he's about to hit, and forcibly grab his hands to stop it if necessary. I've had some luck with redirecting -- something specific and positive, like "high five" or "pat my hair," or a toy or something to fiddle with. If that doesn't work I move myself out of the way. If he does it while nursing I'll stop nursing. I would stop in the middle of the mall if that's what it took. If you have a grocery cart you could strap him in the seat. Or just stop walking and hold his hands still until he stops. If he really persists I'd just try to finish up and get him out of the mall so you can move on.

At this age they are learning "cause and effect" and love to play little games -- so if you do something like yelp "no!" in a funny voice each time, they will keep doing it just to hear the yelp. They don't understand that it hurts your face. They are just playing "hit-yelp." So, I try to be totally low key and not call a lot of attention to it.

Permissive would be letting yourself get hurt just to avoid setting a boundary. There are lots of ways to set boundaries and start teaching him about not hitting. it helps think of it as an ongoing process, not an instant fix.

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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: hink4687 on April 19, 2006, 09:03:05 PM
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Question on nursing. Most of our nusing sessions are right before bedtime or naptimes. If DS slaps me then and I end the nursing session he's not going to take his nap. He doesn't fall asleep nursing but he's gets so drowsy and lays down with no whimpers once he's done. I don't want him to think he's won by getting to go play instead but I don't want to pull him off the breast and then put him in his crib to cry. So how on earth do you get away with this without letting him CIO. Is there some point when a little crying is ok because it still doesn't feel right to me and if so at what point does it change from letting a baby cry to not giving a toddler his way. kwim? This age is starting to get hard for me! Sorry lots of questions!

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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: the princess kitty on April 19, 2006, 09:16:46 PM
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Quote:
That sounds great in theory but how do you do that when your walking through the mall or somewhere like that. I don't wear him all that much at home unless he's super fussy that day so I'm typically always out and about and since he can't walk I can't just put him on the ground in the middle of the grocery store. kwim?
We didn't get out much then.......grocery store, church, that's it. I don't remember her ever doing anything at the store. We would go early before she got tired and most of our issues were/are when she's tired.

Quote:
Question on nursing. Most of our nusing sessions are right before bedtime or naptimes. If DS slaps me then and I end the nursing session he's not going to take his nap. He doesn't fall asleep nursing but he's gets so drowsy and lays down with no whimpers once he's done. I don't want him to think he's won by getting to go play instead but I don't want to pull him off the breast and then put him in his crib to cry. So how on earth do you get away with this without letting him CIO. Is there some point when a little crying is ok because it still doesn't feel right to me and if so at what point does it change from letting a baby cry to not giving a toddler his way. kwim? This age is starting to get hard for me! Sorry lots of questions!
We had some naptime issues. Someone else may have a better way of doing it, but what worked with us (eventually) was when she hit me or bit me or kicked me, I would tell her she may not hit/bite/kick mommy. She usually did it again, at which point I would put her in her bed. I would not leave the room and tried to comfort her by gently rubbing her back and talking to her, reflecting her feelings. If she would not let me near her because she was hitting/biting/kicking I would stand or sit in the room and explain to her that I wanted to hold her and hug her, but I could not do that if she hit/bit/kicked me. Sometimes I tried to help her to calm down by telling her to take deep breaths. Eventually I would ask her if she would let me hold her. After awhile she would. And on certain occasions it seemed to me that she was so angry at me that my mere presence in the room was making her mad (like when she pointed and screamed and threw her toys at me from the bed). So, I told her I was going to get her a drink of water, and that I would be back in a few minutes. It seemed the break from me just getting her a glass of water helped sometimes.

I don't think that is CIO, so someone correct me if I'm wrong. The difference being the child knows you are still there trying to comfort them, and are ready to hold them, once they stop being abusive. They are not alone and crying wondering where is my mommy.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: hiddenhippie6 on April 19, 2006, 09:33:29 PM
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When my dc were that age I would tell them," no, no, touch nice" and gently guide their hand and show them how to touch me or whoever softly. Of course lots of praise then for "touching nicely" It only took a few times and they got it.

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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: raisa on April 19, 2006, 09:47:28 PM
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At that age I was able to set him down, then pick him up thirty seconds later and it would all be behind us. There's no magic formula for what to do, the point is just to not let yourself get hit. I'd say you need to listen to your heart on whether to keep nursing or set your child down in his crib. There are a lot of options between getting hit in the face and leaving him to cry alone if you don't want to. Can you restrain his hands? Change positions so he can't reach your face? (I've rocked a lot in the "bear hug" position with him facing away). Give a little stuffed animal or toy for him to play with? Try a nursing necklace? Turn the lights down so he can't see you as well?

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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: jujubnme on April 19, 2006, 09:50:38 PM
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If he really likes hitting, can you teach him to do a high-five instead? I know some other families with active boys where this worked really well.

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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: raisa on April 20, 2006, 09:20:55 AM
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We do lots of "contact patty-cake" at my house Or "shaking hands," where he starts to hit, I grab his hand and then sing a little "shaky shaky" song.

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Title: Re: 13 month old hitting...what do i do??!!
Post by: mommy2abigail on April 20, 2006, 01:13:28 PM
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Yeah, dd (12.5 months) does the same thing .She also grabs my glasses and throws them down. I mean throws them. SO when she is hitting, I say, "Thats hurts mama, be gentle" and I physically ake her hand and stroke my face with it. She now strokes my face gently (well as gentle as a one year old can be!) when I say be gentle. With the glasses, when she grabs them, I hold her hand and say, "Let go" then if she doesn't I physically pry her fingers off, while repeating "let go." Then I am telling her what to do, and helping her follow through when she cant or wont do it. I would nt say that she is out of control because she is grabbing my glasses or smacking me. Shes one.

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Default Re: Collected Posts about "You Hit, You Sit" and General Posts about Hitting

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Title: Hitting, Hitting and more hitting, I can't make it stop!!!!
Post by: mom2chrisnluke on July 08, 2008, 03:35:27 PM
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OMGoodness......this is getting out of control! My middle son has been one to lash out, well now that we are all together all summer, it is getting out of control, EVERYONE IS HITTING EVERYONE ELSE! Everytime I turn around they are hitting eachother, I have tried talking with them, consequences, making it right, sitting out, going to your rooom to cool down. My middle son always has a "reason" like " he was touching me, he was snatching my toy, he tried to tell me what to do!" Well of course they are all starting with excuses! I have gone to great lengths to explain -there is no reason to hurt your family!!!!! But it seems this is not sinking in.....I need a major wake up call in my house!

DH and I do not hit at all as in spanking or anything like that, and we never have so why oh why has this become the normal response in my home? Please does anyone have any advice???? HELP!!!!

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Title: Re: Hitting, Hitting and more hitting, I can't make it stop!!!!
Post by: ShangriLewis on July 08, 2008, 03:49:23 PM
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I have three sons and they do get physical at times. Honestly it does sound like you need a call. A call to get out. I would take everyone for a long hike, day at the beach, park or whatever place that is a outside use your imagination and your body type of place. You can't punish it out of them, but you can wear it out of them.

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Title: Re: Hitting, Hitting and more hitting, I can't make it stop!!!!
Post by: Rea T on July 12, 2008, 04:57:24 AM
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Oh my goodness, I'm in the same boat. At least J does not hit back (unless pushed to the brink) but K is constantly hitting, hitting, hitting. He will just walk over to J and start hitting him. Yesterday I was trying to wash dishes. Wash a dish half way, go in and separate children, finish washing dish, go in and separate children, wash another dish half way, go in and separate children. That is why nothing gets done around here!

And then there are the fights over toys, or who gets what cup, or 'K is teasing me'. Aaargh!

I've tried getting them out to wear them out, but neither one is very heat tolerant and if we just go outside J wants to go back in after about 2 minutes. Go to a park and in 5 minutes he's begging to go home and K is screaming because he wants to stay and it is no calmer than before.

About the only good choice is the pool, which doesn't open until 1, which is K's naptime. Not to mention the gas to drive all the way across town to one I am comfortable with both of them being in.

I'll probably finally find a solution about the time summer is over. :/

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Title: Re: Hitting, Hitting and more hitting, I can't make it stop!!!!
Post by: emmalouise on July 12, 2008, 05:20:59 AM
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Argh, I feel for you. I recently saw a suggestion of punching bags and drums in the comfort corner for boys. So maybe saying "We don't hit people in our family. If you feel like hitting, you can hit this bag or bang on the drum, then come back to join us when you are ready to use gentle hands."

I haven't had to try things like that yet though, we're not in sibling territory for another few months...

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Title: Re: Hitting, Hitting and more hitting, I can't make it stop!!!!
Post by: ArmsOfLove on July 13, 2008, 10:28:19 PM
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At 4 children perceive everything as a threat and a perceived threat is a real attack. Work with him on using his words. At that age I have a very strong rule that if you ask for help I will defend your boundary; if you use physical violence you lose whatever you were protecting.

Emphasize making amends.

Give them lots of opportunity to play outside and away from one another.

Limit screen time--I find it increases aggression when they get too much.

Make sure everyone is sleeping well.

And I would work very actively with your 7yo about how to respect boundaries and recognize even non-verbal cues that things are going badly.

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Title: Re: Hitting, Hitting and more hitting, I can't make it stop!!!!
Post by: Rea T on July 14, 2008, 10:01:20 AM
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Quote:
At 4 children perceive everything as a threat and a perceived threat is a real attack. Work with him on using his words. At that age I have a very strong rule that if you ask for help I will defend your boundary; if you use physical violence you lose whatever you were protecting.
So, scenario for an almost 4 year old and a 6 year old...6 year old takes toy away from 4 year old (or vice versa)...the one who originally had it should come ask me to have the other one give it back (and ask nicely without screaming, I presume). If they don't, if they just start fighting to get it back then the toy gets put away. Does that sum up what you are saying? What if you don't know who had it first and both children claim to have had it first?

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Title: Re: Hitting, Hitting and more hitting, I can't make it stop!!!!
Post by: ArmsOfLove on July 14, 2008, 01:03:26 PM
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At that point the reality of who had it first is irrelevant. At that point an object has become more important than the relationship and people are more important than things so the thing goes away until the people are treating each other well.

Also, when the 4yo would come to me I'd ask if they used their words first. If not, I'd give them the script and send them back to tell their brother, "I was playing with that. You need to give it back to me." And I'd remind them to come get me if their brother doesn't.

At the point where they've been fighting all along I'd go with the 4yo and stand there while they use their words. And I would offer the 6yo he can have the next turn.

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Title: Re: Hitting, Hitting and more hitting, I can't make it stop!!!!
Post by: Rea T on July 14, 2008, 02:39:54 PM
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Wow, I think I just felt my paradigm shift.

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Title: Re: Hitting, Hitting and more hitting, I can't make it stop!!!!
Post by: ArmsOfLove on July 15, 2008, 10:15:13 PM
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We need a paradigm shift emoticon


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