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Old 04-26-2008, 10:31 AM   #16
GrowingInGrace
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Default Re: Discipline can "fix" a problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsha
Mary, you rock as usual. That's why I usually tell people I parent the way I do for ME because that's how *I* am supposed to behave, not to get an end result.

Growing in Grace, your second is a clone of my oldest. Poor oldest child! Not only do I not always know what is "normal", she (I greately fear) is quite far from normal. some days. And my second seems to go with the flow pretty well, and that irritates me too...that the world has to revolve around my almost 6 year old daugther's needs. But EVERYTHING: two playdates in a row leads to a day of horrible negativity and sometimes raging; she has wildly varying energy levels and she doesn't always know how she's going to react; unfrotunately her dad and I spend too much time talking about "attitude" and "I can't believe you begged to go there and then sat around being bored" and so on.

Chris, awesome insight about your kids. Let 'em mess up.....
Marsha - I know, we've talked quite a bit about them before, remember? Oh, and I'm on the HSCbook yahoo group as jentlemama in case you didn't know.
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Old 04-26-2008, 11:12 AM   #17
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Default Re: Discipline can "fix" a problem

I don't want to make it sound like discipline and setting your kids up for success isn't vital either. But I really think sometimes we have to recognize that this *is*, and you're simply stuck with it until your children mature and internalize the lesson.

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Old 04-27-2008, 04:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: Discipline can "fix" a problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarynMunchkins
I don't want to make it sound like discipline and setting your kids up for success isn't vital either. But I really think sometimes we have to recognize that this *is*, and you're simply stuck with it until your children mature and internalize the lesson.

Absolutely. And I think this is one of the hardest things for me to do as a mother sometimes --- to just let it lie, to not expect to correct it or fix it.

Great thread!
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Old 07-07-2009, 03:37 PM   #19
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Default Re: Discipline can "fix" a problem

This is the single best thread I have ever come across on GCM. I needed to read this so very much and it has ministered to me in a dozen different ways.

... will be back many times to read over...

(I'm thinking this should be a sticky)
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Old 07-07-2009, 06:16 PM   #20
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Default Re: Discipline can "fix" a problem

This is something I really struggle with, especially with DS. Sometimes I just want his behavior to stop and I feel like if I could just do xyz (whatever that might be) then it would stop. I just get so frustrated trying to figure out what that xyz is. Thank you for reminding me that it's not always about fixing the problem, my concentration needs to be on disciplining him for the long run and possibly waiting for him to mature out of certain behaviors.
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:28 PM   #21
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Default Re: Discipline can "fix" a problem

I keep posting thank you's to posts, because I am loving this thread.

I've been reading Families Where Grace Is in Place (I'm not very far) and I think this answers one of the disconnects I was having. The author was talking about how families that are under grace relate to each other -- allowing the individual to be who they are, and how families living under the curse relate -- controlling the other person to behave as I want.

The disconnect was occurring, b/c I'm not seeing where to draw the line with my kids of helping them to be who they are while acting appropriately and when I'm crossing that fine line of controlling. The example of my 4 yo and church comes immediately to mind I want so much for her to sit still, behave, be quiet, act like all the other children her age (and younger!), but it just isn't happening. I need to accept who she is (if her behavior is quiet and not disruptive to let her be, even if it's not what *I* want) and take her out of there when it goes past what she can control.

This is so hard for me -- but I really want to actualize this and live it for my families sake. I'm Realizing that I'm not GBDing b/c of the results it will bring (no one can guarantee that) but rather because I truly believe it is the best way to teach my children (and myself) what they need to know to function at their healthiest in all they do. I can only teach and pray, I can't internalize the lessons for them.

Now I have to work on my constant self talk of how people around me must be judging me to be an ineffective parent (esp. when I'm at Church!).
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:41 PM   #22
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Default Re: Discipline can "fix" a problem

I know a lot of parents get frustrated when the "answer" given to the problem they posted about is "he's 3" or "she's 5" but Sometimes that IS why they are doing it and no matter what you do for discipline they won't stop doing it until they turn the next age and start doing the annoying thing for that age
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Old 07-08-2009, 05:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: Discipline can "fix" a problem

But sometimes it just has to stop, doesn't it? LIke hitting the baby, or doing something extremely antisocial or inconsiderate. How can we expect our kids to develop self control if we don't act like we expect them to do so?

I have to admit that this is a real conundrum for be. He is just 2 or 3 or 4 or 5.....When my friends who expect their kids to learn self control and "train" them to develop it manage to get their kids to not do things my much older kids are doing.

Aaaaaaaand i note that my 7 year old can and does avoid the street and the fireplace but will NOT stop jumping on the furniture. He was constantly riding my daughter's ride on toy (and scratching the wood floors) until i told him if he did it again he would not ride his bike for two days...and guess what? VOILA self control.

:bang head:

i hate it when being punitive works.
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Old 07-08-2009, 05:29 PM   #24
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Default Re: Discipline can "fix" a problem

This is an old thread.

No one is saying to simply ignore the behavior. When it needs to stop, you step in and stop it. But stepping in won't stop it from ever happening again.

You can train anyone to be afraid of a punishment. That's not an accomplishment. But the goal of GBD is more than just teaching kids not to hit or not to talk back. It's teaching them how to be kind and respectful - which is a much greater goal. It takes more time and maturity, and sometimes you have to wait for the maturity to learn the bigger lesson vs. the immediate action.
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Old 07-08-2009, 05:35 PM   #25
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Default Re: Discipline can "fix" a problem

i know i know. i just needed to vent.
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Old 07-08-2009, 05:38 PM   #26
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Default Re: Discipline can "fix" a problem

Well, FWIW, I don't consider taking the bike away after being repeatedly told to stop punitive. Those are some pretty logical consequences, especially for a 7 yo.
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Old 07-08-2009, 05:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: Discipline can "fix" a problem

Love this. I asked the same question yesterday, or today? (who needs some sleep? ) and this is just what I needed to hear!
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Old 07-08-2009, 07:58 PM   #28
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Default Re: Discipline can "fix" a problem

I keep coming back to this thread and rereading it over the last few days. This is radically changing my parenting paradigm.

Still processing...
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Old 07-08-2009, 08:09 PM   #29
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Default Re: Discipline can "fix" a problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by sienna View Post
But sometimes it just has to stop, doesn't it? LIke hitting the baby, or doing something extremely antisocial or inconsiderate. How can we expect our kids to develop self control if we don't act like we expect them to do so?
You set the high standard; you step in to make it happen when they can't meet it on their own. That *is* the grace. IOW, you remove the older child from the baby or the baby from the older child and make hitting them impossible. You make it happen.

Quote:
I have to admit that this is a real conundrum for be. He is just 2 or 3 or 4 or 5.....When my friends who expect their kids to learn self control and "train" them to develop it manage to get their kids to not do things my much older kids are doing.
I am consistent with my children and they learn things younger than if I did nothing But even those spanking parents have difficulty with this or that issue for longer with this or that child--just no one blames their "methods" for the problem--must be something wrong with the child
Quote:
Aaaaaaaand i note that my 7 year old can and does avoid the street and the fireplace but will NOT stop jumping on the furniture. He was constantly riding my daughter's ride on toy (and scratching the wood floors) until i told him if he did it again he would not ride his bike for two days...and guess what? VOILA self control.
At 7 there is nothing wrong with related, respectful, relevant and helpful solutions
Quote:
:bang head:

i hate it when being punitive works.
Being punitive doesn't work Being consistent does. Of course I may define "works" differently from you. I expect things that work to have short term effectiveness and long term achieving of bigger goals. So in the short term I remove/move the child and tell them the rule and make it happen; in the long term I transfer the ability to stop over to them
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Old 07-08-2009, 08:50 PM   #30
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Default Re: Discipline can "fix" a problem

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