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Old 01-19-2010, 08:20 AM   #61
Blue-EyedLady
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Default Re: s/o parenting self-talk

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Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove View Post
there are multiple issues in the diaper scenario. the very real issue of poop everywhere and self talk. The singing reminds me that this is not really a big deal in the scheme of things. I can't change the poop situation, and have to change the diaper

I am thinking you aren't picturing what I'm trying to describe because I have no idea how it would through your center of gravity off I'll try to get a picture uploaded but for now let me try describing again.

You sit on the floor with your knees bent and your feet out in front of you. Put him between your legs, laying down, looking at you, with his feet in your hands (so you can lift his legs and change his diaper ) Pin his arms to the ground with your feet and, if necessary, use the inside of your calves/feet to hold his upper body still. It's very gentle and practical but it may take a picture to explain
I'll have to actually try this to see, but I think DS is too long for me to be able to do this. If I have my legs up high enough to pin down his arms, I think I'll be sitting too close to him to be able to wash his bottom. He's a tall boy (takes after DH) and I'm a short lady.

I think the problem I'm having is the part where you said "so you can lift his legs and change his diaper." If I lift his legs, he locks his knees and pushes with his feet to lift his whole body so that only his shoulders and head are on the changing table. His legs and bottom are squeezed together so that I can't actually clean up the poop. Does that make sense?

Oh - it makes me SOOOO just to think about this! I'm not mad about the poop - as they say "poop happens", right? It's the posture he uses which seems deliberately designed to frustrate me and prevent me from getting him cleaned up, and the fact that he's getting too strong for me to do anything about it.

I have to use all my strength to unlock his knees and spread his legs so that I can actually get to the poop smeared all over his whole diaper area. I usually use my left arm and entire upper body to hold him in position and block his hands as much as possible. I need to have my center of gravity over his upper body in order to have enough leverage to hold his (insanely strong) legs down. If I'm sitting on the floor, then I'm using my feet and hands (the weakest parts of my body) to hold him.

Does that make sense? I can sing a happy song all I like, but when he's screaming in my face because I'm holding him down, I feel like Mommy, the sadist. "Oh, you don't like this? You feel trapped and helpless? La la la-la-la."
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:31 AM   #62
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Default Re: s/o parenting self-talk

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Old 01-19-2010, 08:36 AM   #63
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Default Re: s/o parenting self-talk

This is really good stuff.
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:39 AM   #64
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Default Re: s/o parenting self-talk

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Old 01-19-2010, 08:43 AM   #65
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Default Re: s/o parenting self-talk

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Originally Posted by Blue-EyedLady View Post
I think the problem I'm having is the part where you said "so you can lift his legs and change his diaper." If I lift his legs, he locks his knees and pushes with his feet to lift his whole body so that only his shoulders and head are on the changing table. His legs and bottom are squeezed together so that I can't actually clean up the poop. Does that make sense?
For this issue, I tend go to playful parenting. I tickle the back of their knees, taking it out of a battle issue. They can't help but bend their knees up into froggy position, and I can get the poop taken care of. It helps me, self-talk wise, if I can remind myself that they are NOT defying me. It looks like it, it feels like it, they simply don't have the development to truly defy. It's a constant self-talk mantra here between 2 and 3, because I had 2 years of Ezzo whisperings that they are manipulating me and trying to "win". If I can take it OUT of battle mode, I do a lot better keeping my cool.
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:44 AM   #66
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Default Re: s/o parenting self-talk

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Originally Posted by Blue-EyedLady View Post
I'll have to actually try this to see, but I think DS is too long for me to be able to do this. If I have my legs up high enough to pin down his arms, I think I'll be sitting too close to him to be able to wash his bottom. He's a tall boy (takes after DH) and I'm a short lady.

I think the problem I'm having is the part where you said "so you can lift his legs and change his diaper." If I lift his legs, he locks his knees and pushes with his feet to lift his whole body so that only his shoulders and head are on the changing table. His legs and bottom are squeezed together so that I can't actually clean up the poop. Does that make sense?

Oh - it makes me SOOOO just to think about this! I'm not mad about the poop - as they say "poop happens", right? It's the posture he uses which seems deliberately designed to frustrate me and prevent me from getting him cleaned up, and the fact that he's getting too strong for me to do anything about it.

I have to use all my strength to unlock his knees and spread his legs so that I can actually get to the poop smeared all over his whole diaper area. I usually use my left arm and entire upper body to hold him in position and block his hands as much as possible. I need to have my center of gravity over his upper body in order to have enough leverage to hold his (insanely strong) legs down. If I'm sitting on the floor, then I'm using my feet and hands (the weakest parts of my body) to hold him.

Does that make sense? I can sing a happy song all I like, but when he's screaming in my face because I'm holding him down, I feel like Mommy, the sadist. "Oh, you don't like this? You feel trapped and helpless? La la la-la-la."
oh yeah I know the physical stance you speak of. it is frustrating. And seemed designed to frustrate us. He probably does feel powerless and doing the one thing he can control. You can't bend him and break him (I've often felt like I'd break their hips or something if I tried). Have you tried talking to him? Getting him to laugh? or sing? Anything that lets him relax for that crucial 10 secondsto unlock legs and quickly clean.

And for as seeing when it happens because he is deliberately blocking you from cleaning up poop....well, that's the only thing you can control, is how you see it,w hat intent you assign to it, and how you react to it. Which is what the self talk is about.

I had girls and neither of them were SUPER hard to change. But I remember I had to change where we did it, how we did it (lying in front of the TV watching a show seemed to help some as I recall).
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:02 AM   #67
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Default Re: s/o parenting self-talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue-EyedLady View Post
I'll have to actually try this to see, but I think DS is too long for me to be able to do this. If I have my legs up high enough to pin down his arms, I think I'll be sitting too close to him to be able to wash his bottom. He's a tall boy (takes after DH) and I'm a short lady.

I think the problem I'm having is the part where you said "so you can lift his legs and change his diaper." If I lift his legs, he locks his knees and pushes with his feet to lift his whole body so that only his shoulders and head are on the changing table. His legs and bottom are squeezed together so that I can't actually clean up the poop. Does that make sense?

Oh - it makes me SOOOO just to think about this! I'm not mad about the poop - as they say "poop happens", right? It's the posture he uses which seems deliberately designed to frustrate me and prevent me from getting him cleaned up, and the fact that he's getting too strong for me to do anything about it.

I have to use all my strength to unlock his knees and spread his legs so that I can actually get to the poop smeared all over his whole diaper area. I usually use my left arm and entire upper body to hold him in position and block his hands as much as possible. I need to have my center of gravity over his upper body in order to have enough leverage to hold his (insanely strong) legs down. If I'm sitting on the floor, then I'm using my feet and hands (the weakest parts of my body) to hold him.

Does that make sense? I can sing a happy song all I like, but when he's screaming in my face because I'm holding him down, I feel like Mommy, the sadist. "Oh, you don't like this? You feel trapped and helpless? La la la-la-la."
I am also too short to do changes like the example. I change them on the floor, and sit beside them (when they are in that stage)... I make them bend their knees however I need to, and then kinda lean over their legs over their stomach. It squishes them a bit, but it lets me clean them up in about 2 seconds... then we take a breather for the diaper part. A lot of times after I've cleaned them I'll ask if they want to put their diaper on like a baby or step in like a big kid..... let them choose, and if they want to step in I fasten the diaper and let them step in, then fix it.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:29 AM   #68
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Default Re: s/o parenting self-talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue-EyedLady View Post
I think the problem I'm having is the part where you said "so you can lift his legs and change his diaper." If I lift his legs, he locks his knees and pushes with his feet to lift his whole body so that only his shoulders and head are on the changing table. His legs and bottom are squeezed together so that I can't actually clean up the poop. Does that make sense?

Oh - it makes me SOOOO just to think about this! I'm not mad about the poop - as they say "poop happens", right? It's the posture he uses which seems deliberately designed to frustrate me and prevent me from getting him cleaned up, and the fact that he's getting too strong for me to do anything about it.

I have to use all my strength to unlock his knees and spread his legs so that I can actually get to the poop smeared all over his whole diaper area. I usually use my left arm and entire upper body to hold him in position and block his hands as much as possible. I need to have my center of gravity over his upper body in order to have enough leverage to hold his (insanely strong) legs down. If I'm sitting on the floor, then I'm using my feet and hands (the weakest parts of my body) to hold him.

Does that make sense? I can sing a happy song all I like, but when he's screaming in my face because I'm holding him down, I feel like Mommy, the sadist. "Oh, you don't like this? You feel trapped and helpless? La la la-la-la."
I sooo understand this, as we have this exact scenerio with my 4yo. Reading your description, and thinking back to times I've had to deal with this, I can break the anger down into:
fear/panic that the poop will get everywhere/he'll eat it

frustration that I just want to get him cleaned off thoroughly so it won't make him more sore, and he won't let me and I can't get him to understand that

I will say that at this point, the arching and clamping really only happens when he's having loose poop and his bottom is sore. Away from the situation, I have the perspective to realize that his bottom really hurts and the wiping makes it worse and he's really just trying to protect himself. I keep not actually doing this myself but I think the best thing here would be to try changing standing up in the tub. That way the mess is contained to an easily cleaned place, and you could spray him off if you have a handheld shower, or pour water with a cup, both of which would be less painful than wiping.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:42 AM   #69
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Default Re: s/o parenting self-talk

excellent idea about the tub... I'll have to remember that in a few months
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:53 AM   #70
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Default Re: s/o parenting self-talk

I find I CANNOT change dd on the floor (when she's feisty anyways), I am more likely to get frustrated and loose my cool. I prefer the change table -- she cannot get away from me, and she is too smart to fall off. And yup, I've left her on it.

On the floor she can kick me in the chest (I"m very short so my body is quite close to her while changing) roll over and get poop on the floor or run away.

As for the hands in the poop, I started something with her that has helped immensely, it is a game. I say quickly "hands on your head" over and over again really fast, then change to "pull your ears" or whatever and she races to do the next instruction.

I too struggle with major anger issues so I am and watching this thread.
What doesn't make sense to me (and get your tomatoes ready) is that all the self-talk and strategy presented here do nothing to end my frustration. If frustration is what happens when your goal is thwarted, for example, getting out the door in a timely manner and I need to lock myself in the bathroom, walk away etc etc I would just get more mad? Cause in the mean time dd would be walking around the house in her salty boots yelling etc. So then not only am I upset that we are late, but also that my floor needs mopping..... sigh
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:06 AM   #71
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:22 AM   #72
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Default Re: s/o parenting self-talk

Self-talk isn't the solution, but it's a means to finding the solution, right? Or is self-talk just a means of retaining sanity and calm?
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:26 AM   #73
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Default Re: s/o parenting self-talk

I think it is just a way to get through your initial anger issues.
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:30 AM   #74
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Default Re: s/o parenting self-talk

Self talk, as I understand it, is a way of reprogramming your mind. It's taking those old tapes that play and erasing them, and replacing them with tapes that serve you better. And it becomes the tapes your children play in their minds, so hopefully, they don't have to do the "unlearning" that we do. Especially if you self talk out loud. (And I think we SHOULD self talk out loud, I want my child to hear me struggle, to hear me replace my old bad thoughts with better ones.) As the saying goes, change your thoughts, change your actions, change your character.
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:20 PM   #75
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Default Re: s/o parenting self-talk

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Originally Posted by Buela View Post

I too struggle with major anger issues so I am and watching this thread.
What doesn't make sense to me (and get your tomatoes ready) is that all the self-talk and strategy presented here do nothing to end my frustration. If frustration is what happens when your goal is thwarted, for example, getting out the door in a timely manner and I need to lock myself in the bathroom, walk away etc etc I would just get more mad? Cause in the mean time dd would be walking around the house in her salty boots yelling etc. So then not only am I upset that we are late, but also that my floor needs mopping..... sigh
what we are saying, is that when it is a choice b/w hitting a child and walking away, it is always walking away (if it's safe to leave the child) YES, it is better to mop your house ten times over than hit your kid, call him/her names, scare/berate/guilt them.

but if you are just frustrated, angry/hurt/upset, and do not feel you will express yourself inappropriately, then no, walking away will probably not do much. we're talking about different scenarios that play out in our lives in the context of our feelings.
so, if you are frustrated about leaving late, how do you act towards those around you and yourself? is it healthy/productive/helpful/appropriate? if no, how can *you* change it? kwim?

---------- Post added at 01:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedBlue View Post
Self-talk isn't the solution, but it's a means to finding the solution, right? Or is self-talk just a means of retaining sanity and calm?
for me, all of the above, depending on the situation.

---------- Post added at 01:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 PM ----------

OK: stabilizing--
i remember (tearfully) prying a cooking spoon from ds's hands so hard that it hurt him and he cried. Hello, Irene, this is not an emergency. yes, you need the spoon, yes you are upset about other issues right now and you're putting a lot of nervous energy into stirring that pot of soup, but ds holding a spoon you want is not that kind of emergency!

however, if it were a lightbulb, i'd have to get it from him, as best i could at that time, b/c it *is* dangerous.

basically, when i'm seeing red (about to do something inappropriate, yell, call a name, hit, whatever) all i get to do is stabilize and then i need to take care of myself. So, it may mean i move a pot of soup to the back burner. It may mean i wrestle a knife out of ds's hands, which he grabbed from the counter. I may mean i put the baby where she is safe and ds cannot get to her. that's *IT*. then it's my turn. then i breathe (in the bathroom, outside, in the closet, in the bedroom with door locked) sure, ds may run about bucket naked, he may throw something in frustration, he may hit the door. as those things are happening i feel like : "i should be there right now" but i learned (fairy recently) that i cannot be there until i can behave appropriately. i just don't get to treat my kids that way. i just don't. it's not acceptable. just b/c i don't want to witness their big feelings, or clean up, or have a toy broken in frustration, does not give me permission to stay in the situation while i am out of control and lash out. again, that's what my mother did. i have learned a better way. a HARDER way, but a better way for myself and my children.
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