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Old 03-22-2010, 04:29 AM   #1
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Default Collected Past Posts about the Five Steps

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Title: The Five Steps
Post by: ArmsOfLove 03-17-2005 10:18 AM
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The Five Steps Technique

The Five Steps are a technique developed by Lisa Kuzara-Seibold, Minister of Early Childhood Education at Word of Grace Church in Mesa, Arizona. I had the amazing opportunity to mentor under her while employed by the Department of Early Childhood Education as a Sunday School Teacher. This example of The Five Steps is an adaptation of what is taught in her training manual.

Step 1: State your request and offer a reason.

Example: "You need to stop yourself from playing and clean up. It is time to leave."

Step 2: Restate your request.

Example: "You need to stop yourself from playing and clean up."

It is helpful to get down on the child's level and touch your child while looking in his eyes to make sure you have his attention.

Step 3: Offer help.

Example: "You are having a hard time stopping your play. Can you stop playing and clean up or do you need my help?"

Whether your child requests help or not respect their wishes. Help is not a punishment, it is help.

Step 4: Help.

Example: "You are not stopping your play. Here, let me help you."

Again, help is not a punishment. It is an acknowledgment that your child is unable to stop on their own. This may be due to a lack of maturity, being tired or hungry, or simply not wanting to stop.

Step 5: The Bear Hug.

Stand behind your child and wrap your arms over her shoulders and across her chest. Hold her arms with your hands if you are concerned about her striking out. Squat down to her level and speak gently in her ear that you are helping her stop herself and that you will let her go when she can stop herself. Gentle pressure on her shoulders can keep her from kicking or attempting to run from you. This is not a punishment. It is providing outside boundaries for a child who lacks internal boundaries.

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jammomy 04-04-2005 10:31 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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Crystal,

Thanks for posting these on this board.

My 3.5 yo ds actually likes the bear hug! "Mommy, hug me like that again!"

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ArmsOfLove 04-04-2005 01:06 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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One great game we play around here that I got the idea for from Playful Parenting by Lawrence Cohen is to put the child in the Bear Hug and talk about how they can't ever get out, they'll never get away. Then allow the child to slip out while you continue talking about how it can't happen. Then pretend to notice that they got away and ask in astonishment, "How did that ever happen??? How did you get away?" and repeat with increased seriousness of the hold. . . "This time I'm going to put you in my Super Duper Bear Hug! No one can escape from this!" My kids could play this for hours

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TxMama2Cody 04-04-2005 07:49 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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How long do you wait between each step?

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ArmsOfLove 04-04-2005 08:28 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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Long enough to give them a chance to comply but not so long that thy forget the instructions It also depends on what we're doing. Let's say I need them to clean up their room because we're going to be leaving. I might pop in and do the first step, "You need to clean up the toys. We will be leaving in a few minutes." And then I'm off to take a 5 minute shower and get dressed. Pop back in and do step 2, "You need to get everything cleaned up." Then I'm off to do a few more things and finish getting ready and then I come back and offer step 3, "You're having a hard time cleaning up. Can you do it yourself or do you need my help?" If they say they can do it themselves I stand there and watch them get started and then might pop out and do something else and check back to make sure they're cleaning. If they say they need help or I check back to find them playing I stay and, "Here, let me help you," and get them organized and cleaning. but let's say we're getting someone dressed. I will stand with them and step 1, "You need to put your shirt on. We're getting dressed now." Wait a beat. "You need to put on your shirt." "Can you put your shirt on by yourself or do you need my help?" wait a beat "here, let me help you."

does that help?

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TraceMama 04-05-2005 12:14 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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Thanks for the realistic look at the five steps, Crystal. I have them posted on my fridge and really need to start using them every day, but never knew how to time them. Thanks!

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godsgracegiven 04-05-2005 05:30 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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hehehe, I have them psoted on my fridge too, and sometimes I carry them around with me. I need a post card to put in my pocket. I must look silly to my kids, like I am reading a script or something...lol!!

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ArmsOfLove 04-05-2005 07:06 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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that's great maybe I should sell a laminated wallet card

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godsgracegiven 04-06-2005 02:17 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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A laminated wallet card would be great!! Then I could carry it in my purse too!! I might look strange to the other on-lookers in public but hey, atlest my kiddos will understand.

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LauraK 04-09-2005 09:29 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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you could sell them on a magnet for the fridge as well!

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Lois 04-11-2005 05:57 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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was just demonstrating this to a friend today!

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purplerose 05-03-2005 07:58 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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Thanks for posting this! I neeed to print this out! This is a lot like the Love and Logic style of parenting too! You give the child choices, and then help them decide! I need to print this out as well! YES, sell them on a fridge magnet!!!

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Jillian 05-12-2005 08:02 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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I have a question, and please don't take it the wrong way, I'm not trying to be flip. I this site and find myself nodding in agreement to almost every one of your posts, this just caught my attention.

I'm just wondering why it says to "state" a request, then goes on in the example to "tell" the child what to do. Do you recommend asking first? And then telling? Or just telling right away. Thinking about this situation (and with my highly spirited/sensitive 3 year old in mind), I would probably tell him when we got there when we'd be leaving. When that time rolled around, I'd already given a warning - "it's almost 3 o'clock" - just a bit before to let him know we were getting close, at 3:00 I'd say "it's 3:00, we need to clean up our messes before we go" then I'd probably just start cleaning up - either the babies stuff, my bags or the toys he was playing with, to model what he needs to be doing.

What do you think how I would handle the situation is communicating to him? I don't really tell him what to do, more like tell him what is expected of him. Would that fall under the philosophy of GBD?

Thanks so much for any input

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ArmsOfLove 05-14-2005 02:08 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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that's actually how I handle many things with my children--group actions and encouraging cooperation But there are times when I need to give instructions and my children need to do things and I *ask* them to do it only if their compliance is optional. Otherwise I tell them what they need to do. If we are out in public I might say "we need to clean up" but then as we're cleaning I might say, "Dd, you need to grab that there and hand it to me; Ds you need to get that toy and put it in the bag; etc" With my 3yo I make it as fun as possible and encourage him in the ways that he responds to, but I also see this as a time where I'm teaching him what is his responsibility and no one else's--and cleaning up his toys is *his* responsibility. *He* needs to do it. I help, I model, yet I this wording is to teach.

hth

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Jillian 05-14-2005 03:16 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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Okay, I get it now We ask too, only when compliance is optional. I like how you break it down pointing out to each one a job that needs to be done.

Along the lines of it being his mess, and he needs to clean it up...can I get your advice on that? Sometimes our little scenerio works, sometimes it doesn't. Mostly the times it doesn't, I will clean up ds's stuff instead of turning it into a power struggle out in public. I deal with it as a seperate issue at home, rather than try and *fight* him when he's feeling emotional about not wanting to leave, or whatever it might be. What do you think about that?

Thanks for your thoughts

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ArmsOfLove 05-15-2005 04:41 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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I try to work on things at home until they are ready for them out in public--is that what you mean? If the *issue* about leaving out in public is the big feelings and cooperation at leaving then I focus on that until they are ready for the next step. Meanwhile I make it a group effort to clean up even if I'm doing most of it. Out in public for clean up I expect much more from my 7 and 5 yo's than I do from my 3yo

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My Little Saint 05-27-2005 02:35 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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Ok, this works... until I get to the step where I start helping him get the toys cleaned up or his shirt put on. He starts jumping an screaming and throwing a fit. I bear hug him and start to speak in his ear, but he just screams louder at me and get REALLY mad What do I do? I hate time outs, but I am resorting to them. HELP!

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ArmsOfLove 05-29-2005 04:55 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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keep holding him. tell him you will help keep him safe until he can keep himself safe. maybe try letting him go and see if he stays next to you and calms down. If so, that's fine, just hang out with him and tell him you're ready to hug him when he's ready to get a hug. If he's violent at all then bear hug him until he calms down. It's not always a quick thing--he's having big feelings. I tell my children "I am bigger than your big feelings. I will keep you safe. I love you even when you don't feel lovable." things like that.

It might also help to back up when he *starts* getting upset and give him another chance to do it himself without help. One of my children realizes that he's waited too long and feels like he's failed and the greatest act of grace I can offer him is to give him one more chance to be successful. Since that is the goal anyway, I don't mind at all

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My Little Saint 05-29-2005 11:14 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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Thank you! I'll keep trying... It sometimes is so difficult to know how long to wait, should I let him go into a full blown tantrum? Should I give him what he wants? I know it takes time, it's just frustrating.

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ArmsOfLove 05-29-2005 11:45 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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So much depends on the situation . . . and you can't prevent him having big feelings, but you can actively teach appropriate reactions (in and out of the moment). If you don't mind giving him what he wants then I say give it to him and don't say no--if you change your mind when you realize how important it is (like if you were saying no because you didn't think it was a big deal but would be inconvenient) then take responsibility and say you are changing your mind. If you mean no then mean no and don't give in (that is what creates tantrums in older children ).

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My Little Saint 05-30-2005 01:59 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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You are so right!!

He does have BIG feelings. I don't want to prevent them as much as I want to understand and guide them in a way that is godly and convenient for him. I don't want him to have problems at school and be labeled the problem child. I know he is only 2 1/2, but I am a teacher (2nd grade), and I see this happen daily.

Does changing my mind give him a feeling of uncertainty or inconsistency? I feel I change my mind because, as you said, I say no because it's inconvenient, not something I really mind. Thank you and I apologize if I'm bombarding you with all these questions, he is at an age that honestly, I just don't know what to do 70% of the time.

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ArmsOfLove 05-30-2005 02:19 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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It's okay You might get more responses if you start new threads for some of these questions, but I will say that changing your mind won't create insecurity or be inconsistency unless you present it as such. I usually say something like, "I see that this is more important to you than I realized. I don't like how you are talking to me. I have decided that I'm willing to give it to you. Can you ask me in a more respectful way so that I can feel better about this decision?" and then I help them be successful about asking pleasantly.

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My Little Saint 05-30-2005 04:57 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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That sounds wonderful!!! I never thought of it that way! I would have to use much simpler language, but I think it will work. I will start new threads so that I can get out of your hair! Thanks again, the "hug" is well received.

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ArmsOfLove 05-30-2005 05:08 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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You are not in my hair at all I just don't think most people check new posts on this thread and I want you to get more advice

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red_head_angel 07-17-2005 04:04 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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I have been trying the five steps with my son. The first two days were wonderful. The third, not so much. I just didn't want to follow through. Of course, my 4 year old waits until I ask for help. The answer is always "Yes". Even if it is something as simple as picking up something from the floor. Is this normal or is he testing me? Also, it seems that we end up in the bear hug once daily. He struggles and fights me. I tell him I am holding him, but he is the one hurting himself since he is fighting me. He is also trying to bite my arm, scratch, kick, and spit on me. How do I handle this? It seems to go on forever. I tell him to stop fighting me and stop whinning so I can talk to him and then I will let him go. Am I doing this correctly? By the time we have done this for a while, my 15 month old gets upset, cries and tries to get in my lap, turn my face away from Noah and such. How do I handle his fears while I am bear hugging his brother?

Thank you so much for all the wonderful information and gentle discipline ideas!

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ArmsOfLove 07-17-2005 05:01 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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The other day my 3yo was in a mood and said I was hurting him with the Bear Hug (hurting his feelings, not his body). So I held out one arm and said, "See this arm? This arm LOVES you! (crossing it over him) It's going to hold you until you can be safe." (holding out other arm) "See this arm? This are LOVES you! (crossing it over him) It's going to hold you until you can be safe. I am holding you surrounded by my love. Hear my voice? (whispering) My voice loves you. It's going to talk to you until you can calm down." Then we cuddled for a bit

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red_head_angel 07-19-2005 12:00 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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I am proud of DH. He came home during the Bear Hug struggle that I have been having. He came in and watched for a while. He told Noah that Mommy would let him go when he was still. That kept going for a while, so DH took over and Bear Hugged Noah so I could tend to Aden. He settled down really quick with Daddy, no fighting. Then he went to clean up. He tried to get Daddy to 'help', but Daddy wouldn't. ( ) He told him he made the mess and needs to clean it up. Of course, No argument and all was done. I am just thankful for Daddy backing up Mommy.

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staceysue22 08-11-2005 10:40 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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Do the 5 steps really work? What do you do if they just wait until you offer to help? I've always taken the approach that if they can do it themselves, then they need to do it themselves. I don't want them to grow up waiting for someone to help them with everything. KWIM? I just worry because my mom did everything for me, or helped me with everything. Now I hate doing things on my own..I'm having to learn to be independant. I don't want my children to be the same way.

Stacey

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ArmsOfLove 08-12-2005 12:36 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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Actually, when children know that something is expected of them, which the first step makes perfectly clear with *you* need to do , then when they can they are very quick to do it themselves. Most children don't want help unless they really need it. Knowing you are there to help if they do need it helps them to be more confident Helping is also very different from doing everything for them.

Last edited by GCM_Sticky; 03-22-2010 at 04:47 AM.
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:08 AM   #2
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Default Re: Collected Past Posts about the Five Steps

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kauaidee 08-12-2005 09:17 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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I'm loving step 3 right now. With a 2 year old seeking independence often all I have to do is say "can you do it yourself or do you need my help", and she does what I've been asking. Well at least 99.9% of the time Now all I need to focus on is that it is not punitive. I'm getting there slowly

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Mama Rophe 10-16-2005 02:42 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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I was just wondering...

My ds, who is 16 months, just starts to scream louder and louser when I do the bear hug. He does understand small things, like "Please bring me your shoes."etc. When it is time to clean up, I always have to help him, because he doesn't have the attention span to do it himself yet. What I do is this... I say, "It's time to clean up now." I then slowly start cleaning and he starts to help. When he starts to throw a "tantrum" I try to calm him down with the "bear hug". He just gets louder. I'm not quite sure what to do at this point. Any advice?

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sgreen 10-16-2005 02:33 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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Yep, Ladies

it really works.......and I'm so much calmer as well now.....of course I still have my moments, but less and less..

Halelujah!!

Thankyou for the 5 steps...I've been telling all my freinds here in rainy Manchester about it!

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sgreen 10-16-2005 02:38 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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oops sorry laura!

i didnt offer any advice....

with an 18mth old try good old diversion.....ie counting the things you're putting away in a loud and funny voice?

or tickling him after every thing you put away...make a game?

or go through the five steps again?..in a quiet voice sometimes helps.....they have to quiet down to hear what you're saying?

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ArmsOfLove 10-16-2005 04:57 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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And with an 18 mo I'd do step one and then skip to step 3 and make step 4 doing it with him or even 4 him, though if you start and make it playful he will likely jump right in And I'd encourage you to do the Bear Hug at neutral and positive times--usually I just brush into a room, grab someone up in a Bear Hug, and then go back to what I was doing. This way my children don't associate it with conflict, but with comfort hth

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Mama Rophe 10-18-2005 06:30 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove
Quote:
And with an 18 mo I'd do step one and then skip to step 3 and make step 4 doing it with him or even 4 him, though if you start and make it playful he will likely jump right in And I'd encourage you to do the Bear Hug at neutral and positive times--usually I just brush into a room, grab someone up in a Bear Hug, and then go back to what I was doing. This way my children don't associate it with conflict, but with comfort hth
Thank you! I have started doing this and now ds loves to have his hugs. I love this time too, because he gives hugs and kisses back to me.

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mum2one 10-27-2005 12:43 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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with the 5 steps, I may not be getting it but with the 5th step (the bear hug), it that used only when DS isn't complying after helping him?

Can you please explain that more?

thankyou

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ArmsOfLove 10-27-2005 12:54 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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The helping should complete the task. The Bear Hug is for if the child's internal boundaries break down and he becomes violent towards himself or others or is melting down. Some children require it when they become aggressive. Some children desire it as it is contact and closeness and helps them feel safe. But at the point where you help the job gets done.

does that help?

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mum2one 10-27-2005 06:13 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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Yep, Thanks for that.

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Garnet 03-21-2006 03:11 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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is it just me or should step five come with a clause to it? I showed it to a few ap friends and they wonder how a child picking up toys goes from picking up toys, to a juvenile deliquent in need of restraint. often we use step 5 when my oldest ds gets out of control, but for the others we stop at step 3 or 4. I think they are right, and I almost wish I hadn't shown it to them, it makes us seem more punitive than we are.

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ArmsOfLove 03-22-2006 01:46 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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some children are just that intense I mean

Most often picking up toys does not requre the fifth step

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Garnet 03-22-2006 01:51 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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thats what I said and they were, I don't know Kelli.......ugh. Anyway, I'm over it. I know I'm not a punitive parent. There was all this stuff said about step 5 invading a childs space, and I was like you all *ARE* AP, right? Because as an AP parent, I don't have space. Lack of space is more like it. It might be unusual in some houses for a parent to hug their child after they've done a task they're asked to do, but not mine.

Thanks Crystal.

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sgreen 04-06-2006 04:59 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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Hugging a child when they're a bit out of control is much better than shouting and smacking.....

I find the 5 step method very helpful, and much more comforting for a child....

sometime other people's 'helpful feedback' tells you more about them and 'where they are' with stuff than about your progress...

God Bless you

sarah
xxx

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ArmsOfLove 04-21-2006 04:43 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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Originally Posted by mafiedler
Quote:
thats what I said and they were, I don't know Kelli.......ugh. Anyway, I'm over it. I know I'm not a punitive parent. There was all this stuff said about step 5 invading a childs space, and I was like you all *ARE* AP, right? Because as an AP parent, I don't have space. Lack of space is more like it. It might be unusual in some houses for a parent to hug their child after they've done a task they're asked to do, but not mine.

Thanks Crystal.
my guess is they lean towards TCS or define themselves as "gentle" but that plays out as permissive, or they just have incredibly compliant children who just cooperate

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mumw/lov 04-25-2006 09:57 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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Can I borrow you for a week. How do you do this when a baby is crying at the same time? I am a on demand nursing mother. Sometimes I have to choose I hate that. I try to correct the behavior as it is happening. Simple requests he refusses to listen to lately when I am tending to his brother.

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ArmsOfLove 04-25-2006 10:11 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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Sometimes it's a matter of stepping away from a baby for just long enough to give action to your words for a toddler and then get back to the baby, or live with the baby in a sling

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alexis 05-25-2006 05:12 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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Thank you so much for all of your ideas! I've tried the bear hug before. I was told that if I spoke softly to him and explained that I would let him go when he was calm that he would settle down. He usually loves snuggles and being held. The first time I did it, he screamed so hard that he puked. I didn't do that again. I felt horrible. He hates feeling restrained. I like the comfort corner idea for him. I could sit in it with him. Usually instead of a bear hug, we will sit on the couch and I will rub his back or sit with him. Is this sort of the same thing, if he doesn't like the bear hug? I will do more bear hugs during the day and see how he responds. I'll know right away whether it's working him up into a tizzy or if it's helping. Sorry I just hate that I feel like I sort of do time outs because he doesn't want me to hold him when he's mad for not getting his way etc. (He's a very strong willed 2 1/2yr old)
Thank you.

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Mama Rophe 05-25-2006 05:24 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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My ds doesn't like the bear hug thing either. He hates to be restrained. We also just do the comfort corner. I let him decide if he wants me to be next to him or not. He usually wants me close but not touching him until he has calmed a little bit.

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ArmsOfLove 05-25-2006 04:49 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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for a child who doesn't want to be restrained I absolutely respect that--though if they are attacking and it's a matter of keeping them, myself and others safe versus them being comfortable I always opt for safe. Otherwise, if they are not attacking, I'm nearby when they are ready, but give them their space

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alexis 05-26-2006 01:17 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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So I really thought about the bear hug. I give him positive loving bear hugs, so I wondered if my attitude was punitive when I was bear hugging him. I realized that instead of simple doing an over the shoulder bear hug on the spot, like you suggested, I would pick him up and bring him to a chair and be physically restraining him. This is not the same thing. I tried the "bear hug" today, and it worked beautifully. Since he's young, we went pretty quickly through the steps. We already did choices. Although I count, letting him know that when I get to three, he is choosing for me to help him, after the first steps. If he starts to lose it, I hug him. If he resists, I let go. One time today, we did the comfort corner because he was out of control and did not want to be hugged. He smiled. He also smiled after the hugs. Thank you so much for the great suggestions, and reassuring me that I am not raising a wild child by not doing time outs. I just need to respond lovingly to his behavior. He has actually been more calm and loving today! I used to do "time in" in the sling (or my other soft baby carrier), but I babywear the younger brother so much now, that I always forget that that is another "comfort corner" he really likes. Thanks again.

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ArmsOfLove 05-26-2006 02:12 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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awesome!

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masherrell 10-29-2006 02:14 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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Right now I feel like that little five step thing just saved my sanity. I am very new at this and I grew up in a family where there always is a consequence for an unwanted behavior and my mother and grandmother would make sure I remembered it.. I can't seem to erase that out of my mind. Everyone please pray for me.

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ArmsOfLove 10-29-2006 05:09 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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Originally Posted by alexis
Quote:
Thank you so much for all of your ideas! I've tried the bear hug before. I was told that if I spoke softly to him and explained that I would let him go when he was calm that he would settle down. He usually loves snuggles and being held. The first time I did it, he screamed so hard that he puked. I didn't do that again. I felt horrible. He hates feeling restrained. I like the comfort corner idea for him. I could sit in it with him. Usually instead of a bear hug, we will sit on the couch and I will rub his back or sit with him. Is this sort of the same thing, if he doesn't like the bear hug? I will do more bear hugs during the day and see how he responds. I'll know right away whether it's working him up into a tizzy or if it's helping. Sorry I just hate that I feel like I sort of do time outs because he doesn't want me to hold him when he's mad for not getting his way etc. (He's a very strong willed 2 1/2yr old)
Thank you.
with a child that averse to the Bear Hug I'd do a few things--only use the Bear Hug if he is being violent and aggressive as a means of keeping him and everyone safe; rely more on the Comfort Corner and space-respecting tools. I'd also encourage you to read Sensory Secrets and find some ways to work with him to be less touch averse Maybe jumping on a mini-trampoline to get some large muscle compression (the one my touch averse child loves )

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Mama Rophe 10-29-2006 10:03 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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Thanks for that recomendation Crystal. My 2 yo has never really liked the bear hug in a situation when it is needed. He loves hug's otherwise. When he is upset it just makes it ten times worse. I will see if my library has that book.

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Hopeful 11-23-2006 08:39 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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do you think a 15mo o;d is too young for the 5 steps?

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Lois 11-26-2006 03:38 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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we have used the 5 steps since we have needed to redirect DD which was once she became more mobile, which was about crawling time or close to it. So yes 15 mos is fine to use the 5 steps...sometimes we use them quicker then other times or squish them down to 3 steps.

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ArmsOfLove 11-26-2006 08:51 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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I use the language from birth and "help" includes redirecting, trading out, moving, etc. As they begin lashing out or expressing their frustration I use the Bear Hug to help them calm down

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mothemama 01-14-2007 12:16 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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I had never heard of this! I am going to try it with my 2 and 4 yo dd today! What do you do when you have more than one who needs a bear hug at the same time?? I'm strong but

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ArmsOfLove 01-14-2007 12:19 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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well the Bear Hug really only is needed if the child is melting down and becoming violent. Most things should be resolved at the helping stage. If two children do melt down together I pull them in the best I can. I've been known to bear hug one child with my arms and another with my legs

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TwinMommy03 03-03-2007 04:39 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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What do you do when they WANT you to 'help" them do EVERYTHING, to the point of enabling them? My ds would totally "let me" do everything for him. Even when he is physically capable.

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godsgracegiven 03-03-2007 05:04 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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dd can do the same.

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red_head_angel 04-28-2007 11:49 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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my 3 year old is in the same 'stage' right now. Luckily my 5 yr old grew out of it.

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NewLeaf 04-30-2009 07:41 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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Dd does this too.

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ReedleBeetle 04-30-2009 07:48 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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One thing I ahve done is to help with everything *before* they ask. "Here...let momma do that! Here....Momma needs to do XXXX" In a couple days he is all about "NO! Ikey do it byself!" Sometimes we do playful things, "You can put your socks on." "Oh, you don't want to? Well...let's BOUNCE really HIIIIIIGH! Ok...now put your sock on. We will bounce really high again after your sock is on." then we keep alternating him doing something and bouncing high. Also, doing trades, "I will help you with that, then you help mommy with _______." They love to feel like they are helping. It just depends on *what* they aren't doing. 3 year olds still need a *lot* of help even whent hey can do it by themsleves sometimes. It is hard to remember they can't do it by themsleves *all* the time.

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NovelMama 04-30-2009 08:10 PM
Re: The Five Steps
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AJ went through a phase like that. But it was just a phase--like most things with kids are--and eventually it passes, especially since they are usually eager to be self-sufficient and show how much they can do. I started 5 stepping A when she was 12 months, and I think the helping-with-everything phase came between 15-18 months and lasted less than a month. I saw it as a test--did I mean what I said when I told her I'd help? Would I really help or would I just try to cajole her to do it herself?

I know I go through phases of wanting someone to help me with everything--I just can't admit it because I'm an adult.

It'll pass, don't worry!
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:19 AM   #3
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Default Re: Collected Past Posts about the Five Steps

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mamajane 03-06-2010 03:26 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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The question that comes up for me is when it comes to helping, like cleaning up, for example. How do you not end up doing it all? There have been a number of times helping has become "Mama do it while the kids sit there slacking and Mama gets mad at getting taken advantage of." Help!

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ArmsOfLove 03-06-2010 04:21 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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Originally Posted by mamajane (Post 2942656)
Quote:
The question that comes up for me is when it comes to helping, like cleaning up, for example. How do you not end up doing it all? There have been a number of times helping has become "Mama do it while the kids sit there slacking and Mama gets mad at getting taken advantage of." Help!
when children are young that is part of life beyond the times when handing them a towel and encouraging them to wipe up is viewed as fun.

As children get older (5 is a turning point in this ime) it's time to insist they do it. For most typically developing children this isn't a big deal. In fact, most children WANT to be social. I make sure to keep the idea that being able to do it without help is evidence you are growing up.

Once a child knows that resistance is futile they are going to do it. And I do always do it for them as they age. Toddlers, sure. But not beyond that. I might do it WITH them--put this in that bucket, hand that over here so I can put it up, etc. Eventually, for cleaning their room for example, I can give them one step and then they check back in with me and I give them the next, etc. Eventually they don't need to come ask the steps and I might pop in at the end and point out the few things that still need doing and give a

Any children that reaches 5 and still needs help frequently and for average things needs, imo, to be evaluated for special needs or have their diet considered.

ETA: I also encourage older children, or even same aged siblings, to help one another. Once we have 5 children there is no reason for mommy to be doing everything Often we don't ask children to do nearly as much as they are capable of.

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mamajane 03-09-2010 02:06 AM
Re: The Five Steps
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Originally Posted by mamajane (Post 2942656)
Quote:
The question that comes up for me is when it comes to helping, like cleaning up, for example. How do you not end up doing it all? There have been a number of times helping has become "Mama do it while the kids sit there slacking and Mama gets mad at getting taken advantage of." Help!
I didn't mean to sound like my kids don't help - they do. I was just thinking of a specific helping dynamic, and I think I figured it out. It's the general helping that isn't so helpful. The kind of helping that I've been doing more of lately works better, more specific advice, like breaking the stuff to be picked up into categories and assigning categories, for example. More direction than joining them in the doing. Or handing them stuff and telling them where to put it, because it can be hard to figure out where stuff goes.

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Title: Five steps with kids who weren't AP'd
Post by: ReadingMommy 03-25-2005 05:09 PM
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Do you think that if you didn't AP your kids that the 5 steps aren't as effective?

I just can't help but feel that I'm allowing an opportunity for them to choose to disobey because they WANT to disobey. I know I shouldn't judge their hearts, but I know my girls, and sometimes they just don't want to listen and I feel like they should listen because it's the right thing to do. Am I totally off base here and having no grace?

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MarynMunchkins 03-25-2005 05:38 PM
Re: Five steps with kids who weren't AP'd
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Well, you're coming from a punitive mindset. BTDT...and it's even harder those first few weeks after making a change to GBD because you have different boundaries and your kids are pushing them.

Sometimes I don't feel like listening to what my kids need either, and I should because they need me and it's the right thing to do. I sure don't want my dh yelling at me and telling me to "just do it" because I'm supposed to. I want his help and encouragement in order to get through it. Our kids want the same thing.

Hang in there! The 5 steps do work for every kid (and adults too!), even if it does take more time and patience than you think you have.

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ArmsOfLove 03-25-2005 05:46 PM
Re: Five steps with kids who weren't AP'd
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If they are resistant to doing things without help that says two things: 1) what you were doing before didn't actually teach them to obey because it's the right thing to do--it was because they were afraid of whatever would happen if they didn't; and 2) they are attempting to connect with you and find out what the real boundaries are. Rather than having a goal of them doing it without help, consider having a goal of them learning that doing it isn't optional--whether they do it without help or need help.

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Joanne 03-25-2005 09:21 PM
Re: Five steps with kids who weren't AP'd
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AP and GBD are related but separate. You can be AP and not use GBD. And you can use GBD/positive discipline and not be AP.

In fact, some of the best positive disicpline authors are not AP at all.

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LoveToReadMommy 03-26-2005 12:22 PM
Re: Five steps with kids who weren't AP'd
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I understand abour AP and GBD not being the same. I guess I was getting at the fact that maybe those of you who have AP'd from the start have a different connection to your kids, where they want to please you and that motivates them to listen.

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ArmsOfLove 03-27-2005 07:39 AM
Re: Five steps with kids who weren't AP'd
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Well, I actually learned the 5 Steps working in a church nursery and I didn't have an attachment to any of the children (although I formed some with them ). I never had a child with whom the 5 Steps didn't work--even if it meant using the Bear Hug. And I was able to establish myself with children in my class over about 3 weeks of seeing them an hour and a half a week. I worked in the class for over 2 years and I worked primarily with Kindergarten aged children but also with the 2's and 3's. It worked with all of them.

Now, when working with my own children, I do think it helps that we have the attachment from AP when it comes to helping me keep my cool and my response, but I do still feel punitive feelings and have to work to control them. Being the mother on call 24/7 is definately *more* than working in a classroom, but maybe because I know this tool is effective with everyone I stick with it

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TulipMama 03-27-2005 09:54 AM
Re: Five steps with kids who weren't AP'd
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Quote:
Quote:
If they are resistant to doing things without help that says two things: 1) what you were doing before didn't actually teach them to obey because it's the right thing to do--it was because they were afraid of whatever would happen if they didn't; and 2) they are attempting to connect with you and find out what the real boundaries are. Rather than having a goal of them doing it without help, consider having a goal of them learning that doing it isn't optional--whether they do it without help or need help.
Ooh! This is great, Crystal If we ever get random wisdom from mamas on rotation in a banner again, I want this one there!

LoveToReadMommy,

I found the Five Steps to be very helpful when transitioning from punitive parenting, because my thinking patterns were still very stuck in the old ruts. The Five Steps gave me a concrete plan to follow. I printed them out and posted them on the fridge. It helped a lot.

Over time, I've been able to modify it and add other tools. My thinking patterns have changed (mostly.)

When I'm struggling with "What should I do!?" or "This kid is driving me nuts!" then getting back to the Five Steps helps me figure out how to help my kids.

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LoveToReadMommy 03-29-2005 04:14 PM
Re: Five steps with kids who weren't AP'd
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I've been trying to figure out why my first post was from a punative mindset. Is it because I said I want them to listen because it's the right thing to do? Am I suppose to have no expectations of right and wrong? BTW, it's been 10 months that I've been transitioning, not a few weeks. I guess I'm a slow learner. I really want to learn, I'm tired of fumbling around!

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ArmsOfLove 03-29-2005 05:26 PM
Re: Five steps with kids who weren't AP'd
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Quote:
I know my girls, and sometimes they just don't want to listen and I feel like they should listen because it's the right thing to do.
Why do you say that they sometimes just don't want to listen? It's saying that they don't *want* to listen that assigns a negative intent. It's also unrealistic to expect young children to do something just because it's the right thing to do. That's the *goal*, but they aren't there yet. I mean, do you do everything all the time because it's the right thing to do? That's the goal for us too. It's not that you should have no standard--I have a VERY high standard, it's just that I take responsibility for helping them meet the standard when they can't do it themselves. And there are many reasons why they can't. Sometimes they don't understand, sometimes they are too tired, hungry, frustrated, overwhelmed, distracted, sad, etc.

I fully believe that children want to be social--that God created them to be--and if they aren't being social then it's because they either don't know how to or there is some obstacle blocking them (physical or emotional, etc).

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LoveToReadMommy 03-30-2005 09:02 AM
Re: Five steps with kids who weren't AP'd
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Wow, you are so right Crystal! Of course I don't always do the right thing...... So I guess when I said they don't want to listen, I meant just that, yet I expect them too because I'm the parent... I didn't even realize that was punative thinking....
I have a long ways to go, it's a whole new way to think. PTL that dh is on the same page with me now We're gonna try the comfy corner again, loved the thread about it, and about "why not time outs" Again, thanks so much, many blessings to you!

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ArmsOfLove 03-30-2005 09:09 AM
Re: Five steps with kids who weren't AP'd
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I'm so glad I was able to explain that And you are right--it's an entire paradigm shift. Eventually it invades every area of thinking--all relationships. Sometimes I even find myself thinking this way towards the people who cut me off in traffic

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Irene 03-30-2005 09:31 AM
Re: Five steps with kids who weren't AP'd
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hugs to you Lovetoreadmommy... I just wanted to say its been almost 2 years for me and I *still* struggle with punitive mindset.... getting better, but the old tapes still play sometimes :/

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purstrength 03-30-2005 08:49 PM
Re: Five steps with kids who weren't AP'd
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Quote:
I found the Five Steps to be very helpful when transitioning from punitive parenting, because my thinking patterns were still very stuck in the old ruts. The Five Steps gave me a concrete plan to follow. I printed them out and posted them on the fridge. It helped a lot.
I need to do this! Thank you for the idea!

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jujubnme 03-30-2005 09:08 PM
Re: Five steps with kids who weren't AP'd
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I've just been reading Hold On To Your Kids by Gordon Neufeld (you're going to get tired of me quoting from it--it's my new favorite "discipline" book ). He talks about doing things for the right reason as something that requires the ability to be self-reflective--something that only comes with maturity, like Crystal has suggested. With preschoolers we kind of "script" them to do the right thing, but true moral reasoning doesn't come till much later. To bring this full-circle to your original post, though, the process of psychological individuation (becoming one's own person) required for that kind of thinking *is* best incubated when the child is oriented to an attached, unconditionally loving parental relationship. So in that you are right . (And just to clarify, I'm not saying AP'ed from the beginning, but AP'ed in the present .)

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Title: Am I working the five steps right?
Poster: kklibrarian 04-07-2005 02:11 PM
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Ok -- DD is 2.75 years old. We are just getting into GBD, after being extremely dissatisfied with our earlier attempts at more punitive parenting. I've tried to start instituting a comfort corner instead of time-out, and I'm working on using the five steps. I'm having some questions about helping DD in situations where she's having trouble doing what we've asked. I'll make a request -- take your baby carriage back to your room, for example. Then I'll explain -- we're done playing babies and someone might trip on the carriage. Then we get to helping and things seem to go haywire. DD's reaction to helping makes me think she's interpreting it as punitive. She'll begin to sob as I help her push the carriage back to her room. Would it be better to just distract DD and do whatever it is I'm asking from her myself? But if I do that how does she learn? A couple of times she's been so resistant to helping that we've had to use the bear hug.....which she hates and I'm almost convinced she sees as totally punitive despite the fact that I'm trying to talk gently to her and reassure her that she's not "in trouble". Is it normal for kids to have BIG FEELINGS when confronted with the Five Steps? How do you work the Five Steps when your child is melting down?

Blessings,
Kelly

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ArmsOfLove 04-07-2005 04:33 PM
Re: Am I working the five steps right?
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Some childen do have big feelings reactions to anything And at that age, sometimes helping *is* doing it for them. If you've recently stopped being punitive it might be a good idea to show her that grace and try to engage her in helping. Making things playful is one of my favorite aspects of GBD and relationship-focused parenting. What child won't want to get involved if her baby carriage is flying back to the bedroom carried by fairies

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kklibrarian 04-07-2005 05:01 PM
Re: Am I working the five steps right?
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Thanks, Crystal. That makes sense, and I'll try to remember to keep things light and playful when helping her. I'm also thinking that I need to work on things like posture and tone. The words I'm using may be more grace-based, but other things about my stance towards her might still be communicating punishment.

I'm full of so many questions right now. I think I've read all the stickies in this forum at least twice already.

Thanks again,
Kelly

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Old 03-22-2010, 05:59 AM   #4
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Default Re: Collected Past Posts about the Five Steps

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Title: help with 5 steps
Poster: gratefulmama 05-04-2005 09:10 PM
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My just turned 2 year old is being sooo difficult right now. It is a chore to get his cooperation on anything, from diaper changes, to getting dressed everything is "no" and usually a meltdown. We are using the five steps and they seem to not be working. For example it is time to come inside I give him wrap up warnings, touch him and tell him it is time to go in, he says no and runs away, I catch him, look in the eye again & tell him he may walk inside on his own or mommy will help him in by carrying him (which sucks b/c the baby is in the sling) he runs off again, I pick him up and carry him in, or at least untill his is yelling, "self self" (meaning he'll walk by himself) but then he runs off again so I carry him (bear hug as much as possible) and dd in and he lays on the floor in the house carrying on about walking in by himself Same with diapers etc. Do we just keep at it and he will learn or what am I doing wrong??

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4LovesMom 05-06-2005 04:24 AM
Re: help with 5 steps
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Oh my goodness, someone else with more experience, please answer! I wish I could give you some great insight, but I'm so new to this, I feel like we're still just practicing and feel pretty unsure sometimes. But especially since I see your kids are the same ages as my two youngest, I really sympathize. And good for you for trying to figure this out. I bet some of his behavior might have to do with the new baby - although it seems everyone tries to blame everything on that with my kids and sometimes I see the validity but not always.
Anyway, I'll be watching along with you to hear what advice you get!

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ArmsOfLove 05-10-2005 05:16 PM
Re: help with 5 steps
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I have to apologize--I usually do "show unread posts since last visit" and it doesn't always make sense--I didn't realize there were so many posts in this forum I was missing )

With a 2yo you might need to abbreviate the steps sometimes. For instance, if he is in a phase where he always needs help then use the wording of step one *while* doing step 4 and helping. Sometimes they need to learn very strongly that your words have meaning. Also, try some other tools. 1, 2, 3 Transition was developed for 2yo's and diaper changes. I explain that they have until the count of 3 (counted reasonably slow) to find a place to lay down and I will change their diaper wherever they lay down. If they don't lay down by the count of 3 (and with one child they ran and laid down at 1, one of them waited until I'd said "3 . . . find a place" ) then I get to choose the place. Then, even if they fuss and fight me, I lay them down and change their diaper--fast, of course

Also, 2 is the age where they are starting their steps to independance and it's helpful to encourage them to do as much as they can for themselves--it helps them feel *big* and cuts down on the fighting you. Encourage him to get himself dressed, and as much as possible have this as part of a morning routine that flows naturally so it's expected that, for example, after breakfast he brushes his teeth and then gets dressed (whatever your routine it, just so that he knows it and can feel safe and propel himself along--and if you're not very structured please know this is the area I struggle most with ).

hth

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gratefulmama 05-11-2005 02:23 AM
Re: help with 5 steps
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I am finding that the steps have to be abreviated or else we spend way too long talking about what I need him to do so thanks for the afermation on that one, the 1,2,3 transition is not working very well right now but has worked in the past so I guess we just need to keep at it so that he realizes that our words do have meaning. Thanks for the doing things himself tip, he is wanting too do more things on his own and teaching him to get dressed might be very interesting to him. I

I feel so frustrtated that I can't seem to help him right now, he is having so many more meltdowns and struggles right now and I know it is the phase of life he is in (turned 2, got a new sibling, teeth etc) I just wish I could help him more. I just got the I love you rituals book and I love it already. I am praying that it will help us all reconnect a little bit.

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ArmsOfLove 05-11-2005 02:29 AM
Re: help with 5 steps
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Oh isn't that book great

2 is tough until you accept them doing more on their own

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Title: Skipping the 5 steps?
Poster: Mothering by Heart 08-21-2005 09:59 PM
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I have been pondering lately, the way I have been doing things in regards to discipline, and I am confusing myself.

Ex. When a toy had been left scattered around the living room (and it is time for dinner, say) I will say, "Natalie, it is time for dinner, but you need to pick up x first." She will say , "not me want to." Then I say, "Okay well, we are eating. You may come eat after you have done x."

Then I go on with getting ready to eat, etc., and just leave her to do it. She sees that we are going to eat and picks it up and comes to eat.

I do this same thing with all the kids. Now, am I just being lazy and I don't want to deal with it, or is it because I have done the 5 steps and they know that they are going to do have to do it?

And is this okay?

ETA: I don't really think I am being lazy. I just see that saying, "when you do x, then you may do y" is working. They decide if they are going to pick it up. So maybe the 5 steps are for when you need something to be done now. See, I'm confusing myself. :/

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expatmom 08-21-2005 10:33 PM
Re: Skipping the 5 steps?
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This is sort of what I do, so I'll be interested in the responses.

What happens if she comes to dinner without picking up the toy?

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4blessings 08-21-2005 10:47 PM
Re: Skipping the 5 steps?
---------------------------------

We don't do the five steps, either. Before I discovered GBD, I read a positive discipline article that you shouldn't repeat a request, but instead you move to help the child follow your directions if they're not moving to do it on their own. That's just the habit I got into with parenting my children. I tried the five steps after discovering GBD, but after all those years (10!) it just seemed too awkward to me and my children seemed to think that they didn't have to obey me right away anymore, but could wait for me to ask, "Do you need my help?" LOL! This was particularly annoying to me b/c they were suddenly asking for help with things they'd long been doing without my help.

I say something like, "We can read a book after you've put your toys away." or "You can come and eat as soon as you've picked up your blocks." For some reason, not doing it is not an issue. I think my children know by now that I mean what I say so they just do it. Of course, when they were younger (and still with my littlest one who is 3.5) I often had to help them get started, but I still didn't do the five steps.

I'm not at all saying that the five steps don't work. I just learned differently and was too old to change.

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milkmommy 08-21-2005 11:08 PM
Re: Skipping the 5 steps?
---------------------------------

I think part of GBD is adjusting needs towards your child and the situations. Sometimes the five steps here looks just like "advertised' sometimes I only use say steps one and skip to four and step five is like never used.
In the OP example I think if 1) the childs old enough to understand 2) Your not making it a punitive mind set then I see nothing wrong with what your doing.
Deanna

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ArmsOfLove 08-21-2005 11:11 PM
Re: Skipping the 5 steps?
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Yes to all of the above. I cut out steps, and I use other tools sometimes I do find the 5 Steps to be excellent for a child when you have something that needs to be done on your timeline and very helpful (though I do drop step 2 for this) when establishing myself with a child.

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Title: Five Steps question
Poster: ozmummy 04-27-2006 06:07 AM
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OK My question is about dd changing her mind about "help" and then ending up repeating the five steps over and over.

This is an example as this type of scenario can happen in different ways...

Last night it was bath time. I had given them warning that it was coming up. It's part of a regular night time routine, so not unexpected.

Dd is 2yr11mo. She had already said that she doesn't want a bath when I told them that it would be bathtime when we had finished packing away.

Me "We're finished packing away. It's bathtime"
Dd " I don't want a bath!!" (in a loud voice)
Me " You don't want a bath tonight"
Dd "I don't want a bath!!!" (louder)
Me "it's bath time, can you walk to the bathroom by yourself, or do you need help"
Dd "I DON"T WANT A BATH!! (she just screams things like this louder and louder, and doesn't listen to what I'm saying...whatever the situation)
Me "Looks like you're having trouble doing it by yourself, I'm coming to help you'"
Dd "I DON"T WANT A BATH!!!" continues to scream this
Me "I'm coming to help you"
I come and pick her up and start carrying her to the bathroom. When we're halfway there she starts screaming "BY SELF!! BY SELF!!!"
Me "You want to walk by yourself?"
DD "Yes" (semi-calm)

So I put her down. She goes back to the starting point where I picked her up. But just stands there.

So we end up repeating the five steps again. It just seems ridiculous

So then I ended up picking her up again, and of course she started "BY SELF!!! BY SELF!!. But I didn't let her down, because I could see the situation repeating ad nauseum.

So we get to the bathroom, and she is screaming hysterically. I try and do the five steps for taking her clothes off and hopping in the bath.

She is still screaming "BY SELF!! BY SELF!!

So I stop and say that walking to the bathroom is finished. I reflect to her that she really wanted to do it by herself, and she agrees. And calms down a bit. But I can't keep going back to the start again. When I do we just end up doing the whole 5 steps again. So I just say, "If you want to do it by yourself, you need to do it when mummy says" I'm not sure if she really understands that? So as soon as she realises I'm not going to let her go back out to walk in by herself, she just starts the hysterical screaming again "BY SELF!! BY SELF!!"

So I go through the 5 steps about undressing, she doesn't really respond so I start undressing her. And then that just adds to it, because now whe wants to undress by herself. I just do it and plonk her in the bath, and wash her. Doing it all, because by now she is just a hysterical mess and I have 2 other children to cope with as well as get dinner, and dh is working evenings...(Where is the tearing your hair out emoticon?)

OK That is a typical situation. It happens probably once a day? Do I allow her to attempt to do it by herself when she wants to after she is already receiving help? If so, what happens when she doesn't then make any attempt to do it by herself? Or is that option lost once help is happening? It seems that she is really trying to see if I am serious about making these things happen?

Thanks guys

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Amber 04-27-2006 06:22 AM
Re: Five Steps question
--------------------------------

For me, if they wanted to try to do it themself after I had started helping then I would let them have a chance to do it...but if they then refused I wouldn't repeat the 5 steps I would say "you need Mommy's help" and go on helping them. I would also try some playful parenting, asking her if she could hop to the bathroom like a bunny or if she would like to fly like an airplane.

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Joanne 04-27-2006 10:55 AM
Re: Five Steps question
---------------------------------

My kids don't get another chance to do it themselves. If, by that time in the steps, they've actively or passively chosen my help, I give help and move on.

I agree and encourage the playful parenting idea. However, I'll be honest and say that by that time of day and with more than one child, my playful is running out.

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loveberry 04-27-2006 01:37 PM
Re: Five Steps question
--------------------------------

I'm not that big on pushing baths. I'd skip the bath unless she was covered in something that would get her sick or something like that.

However, for a situation that had to happen, I agree with the other posters. Once we've passed the getting help step we don't really backtrack. If he seemed like he was calming down and really capable of doing whatever it was, I might let him try, but I would be in a physical position to start the making it happen again immediately.

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ozmummy 04-30-2006 08:47 AM
Re: Five Steps question
---------------------------------

Thanks for reminding me of the playful option

My oldest is so *serious* and never responded well to this type of thing, so it kind of got buried at the bottom of the parenting tool box. However, I think dd will respond to this type of thing really well - Last night I gave her the option of jumping like a frog, or sliding like a snake to the bath, and she slid like a snake to the bath, and then to the toilet the next day *every* time she needed to go

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Title: The Five Steps vs Joanne's GOYBP
Poster: euromom 07-04-2006 03:03 AM
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I had started applying the Five Steps to 19mo DS and the second step is to repeat what you request. Then I saw so much about Joanne's GOYBP on here that I had to check it out and she specifically states NOT to repeat yourself. I guess is this just one of those things that you have to see what works best for you and your child? I had been repeating myself and then going to help him to do what he could not do himself (sitting down on the couch is the big one!) But now I'm realizing maybe I should just state it once and then go help him???

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Heather Micaela 07-04-2006 03:05 AM
Re: The Five Steps vs Joanne's GOYBP
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this answer is a bit brief b/c I wass signing off now, but I think both are valid in different circumstances

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Bonnie 07-04-2006 03:16 AM
Re: The Five Steps vs Joanne's GOYBP
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My feeling has been that I'm more 5-step oriented with my currently very young children, but as they mature and can handle more I'd lean away from repeating myself. The attitude of request followed by making it happen is still very much in line with each other.

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ArmsOfLove 07-04-2006 03:18 AM
Re: The Five Steps vs Joanne's GOYBP
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GOYBP is sort of an abbreviated 5 Steps. I talk often about adapting them based on the age and personality of the child. There are many stages where I start with step 1 (always say the words of step 1) and then move to whatever step is needed--make it happen (as in GOYBP). When it's something like running into the street I say, "you need to stay out of the street," WHILE I do step 4 and pick them up and move them. If a child is going through a stage where they passively resist doing what I've said I bump it up to say it once then make it happen. As soon as they are pretty consistently able to do it without help I move back to using steps 2 and 3.

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euromom 07-04-2006 03:27 AM
Re: The Five Steps vs Joanne's GOYBP
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Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove
Quote:
GOYBP is sort of an abbreviated 5 Steps. I talk often about adapting them based on the age and personality of the child. There are many stages where I start with step 1 (always say the words of step 1) and then move to whatever step is needed--make it happen (as in GOYBP). When it's something like running into the street I say, "you need to stay out of the street," WHILE I do step 4 and pick them up and move them. If a child is going through a stage where they passively resist doing what I've said I bump it up to say it once then make it happen. As soon as they are pretty consistently able to do it without help I move back to using steps 2 and 3.
Thanks Crystal, that helps! I think I will need to do more GOYBP for the sitting on the couch and climbing on the table thing until he gets it and then perhaps move to the 5 steps as he gets older and understands it more. He never sits no matter how many times I say it so I might as well move in right away to help him. Maybe I should even say it AND help him at the same time like you would with the child running into the street.

That really does help answer my question! Thanks!

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TulipMama 07-04-2006 08:52 AM
Re: The Five Steps vs Joanne's GOYBP
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Both are valuable.

For me, I found that having the Five Steps helped me transition in my thoughts and attitudes to really wanting to help my children. Taking the time to ask "Do you need me to help you?" not as a threat as I would in the old days, but as a sign of respect and opportunity for teaching and teamwork was very valuable to me.

I think if I started with GOYB with my toddlers/when we were transitioning away from punitive parenting, then I would have stayed stuck in a punitive mindset longer. Ie, "say it once, make it happen" would not have been good for my still-punitive thinking. (Not that Joanne is punitive! Or GOYB is punitive! Just trying to explain how that would not have been the best for me either with my away-from-punitive transition nor with my toddlers. *grin*)

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euromom 07-04-2006 01:51 PM
Re: The Five Steps vs Joanne's GOYBP
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Originally Posted by TulipMama
Quote:
I think if I started with GOYB with my toddlers/when we were transitioning away from punitive parenting, then I would have stayed stuck in a punitive mindset longer. Ie, "say it once, make it happen" would not have been good for my still-punitive thinking. (Not that Joanne is punitive! Or GOYB is punitive! Just trying to explain how that would not have been the best for me either with my away-from-punitive transition nor with my toddlers. *grin*)
That's a good point too. Something to keep in mind in watching my attitude in how I say it if I am saying it only once! Thanks for sharing!

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mummy2boys 07-05-2006 03:01 AM
Re: The Five Steps vs Joanne's GOYBP
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I agree...I have used both it different situations too
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