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Old 08-06-2006, 09:58 PM   #16
JoyfulMom
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove
d it speaks to an entirely different paradigm from the one that says you're either punitive or permissive. It rejects the extremes of both while providing a middle ground that is both kind and firm.

May be a stupid question, but coming from someone that hasn't heard of GBD and is new to this forum...can you be both punitive and permissive as a parent? I ask this b/c, well, I've struggled with being permissive with our children, and also with punitive punishment....

This may or may not belong in this forum...but my issue at the moment is with our 13 y/o dd. She has always had her own room, only had to share with a little sister for a very short period of time when they were much younger. We live in a small home, there are 7 of us, one bathroom, and three small bedrooms. This is sad and I hate to admit it but....ds sleeps in the living room, he is four, has no space of his own. DD, 19 mos, sleeps in the room with me and dh (cosleeping). The thing is, it's getting to the point that the younger ones need their own space and a place that they can go and play and/or rest. DD wants to share with the 4 y/o boy and let us keep baby in the room with us, so that she doesn't have to share with two younger sisters. (8 & 10 who share a room together already) Because, heaven forbid, her privacy be violated by the other two, they do not get along, which is one of my reasons for making them share in the first place. They need to learn how to get along and love one another and plus, well, this is terrible, but I want to prove to dd that life isn't always going to happen the way she wants it to and she just has to deal with it. She keeps making deals, or trying to, to make me see that she will do whatever it takes to keep from sharing with her two younger sisters. Part of me says let her keep her room because I remember how I wanted to be alone a lot at her age. The other part of me says, she just needs to suck it up, put on her big girl panties and deal with it b/c as of right now, she is the only person in our home that is happy with the living arrangements.

Tell me, what would you do? I'm new to having a teenager and it's driving me insane! It's making me feel like a failure b/c this territory is completely new to me and I'm lost!!! I'm glad I found this board b/c GBD has really caught my interest and I'd like to read as much as I can, unfortunately, I haven't much time for reading these days. I've been trying to post here since I joined a few weeks ago. Sorry for rambling, but I hope someone has some advice for me! Thanks!
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Old 08-07-2006, 12:56 AM   #17
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

I am definitely not one to have advice for you as I am working through a lot of this stuff too, but I know you will get some very good advice from the other members here. I think/hope it is ok to direct you here, though for some helpful reading and resources as you are able. http://www.aolff.org/default.html


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Old 08-07-2006, 03:22 AM   #18
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

I would suggest you sit down over coffee with DD and talk to her about it all. First validate how you believe she is feeling (ie privacy, not wanting to shair with sisters, remembering how you felt at that age, etc) let her talk about how she is feeling about things, then say you are here to try and work out something that will work for both of you because you are a family team. I would let her know some of the issues that you are dealing with as far as family living space and how helpful it would be if she were able to help you figure out some idea to help. She maybe willing to open up her "space" if it's her idea or she comes around to it of her own accord. My parents taking me out one on one would have spoken volumes to me of my "valued individualness" at that age. Also she still desires to be involved in making decisions and so helping her think of ones that she can make, help her feel as though she has a say in what happens in her life...kwim? Not an expert here but just some ideas
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Old 08-07-2006, 06:22 AM   #19
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

that would be a tough one for me. I was an oldest child, and I hated everything about having siblings. It still makes my stomach hurt to think about it, honestly, and that is why I am so vociferously opposed to large families. Just a prejudice on my part. I needed privacy and quiet SO BAD! Anyway, I had to share rooms because there were 10 kids and two parents in 4 bedrooms...you do the math. I sucked it up, it was never presented as an option, I'd shared a room since I was little. But my parents did respect my need for private time, the littler kids only slept in the room, not played so I could spend all day reading in there by myself. Also, I spent a lot of time outside....we lived on a big farm, so I could roam at will. And I moved out as soon as I was 18 into my own apartments and at times have worked three jobs to avoid having a roommate.
I hope I don't have to make that decision because sometimes difficulties we have as parents are related to difficulties we had as children. Didn't mean to make that more confusing, sorry!
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Old 08-07-2006, 06:35 AM   #20
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Honestly, I know someone that had an older brother in with a younger sister in a room, because their temperamants were better suited to sharing - they got along better. What's the problem with the 13yo sharing with her brothers instead of with her sisters, if it helps keep the peace. Forcing them to share a room won't help them get along better, discipline and love might. That is, IF your sons don't mind the arrangement.

I don't know the layout of the house, but I have also seen people give their teens an unfinished room, a basement or an attic. My friend Ruth gave her teen a space in the basement, put up "temporary" walls, painted the concrete floor and walls bright colors, a nice rug, etc. I think her teen cherished having her own space in her teenage years more than having drywall and covered beams.

I guess what I'm saying is, it takes creativity to meet everyone's needs (and sometimes their desires, if practical) when it's a large family, especially. I know in our house we've had no fewer than 7 sleeping arrangements in the past 7 years - whatever gets everyone the most sleep at the time. I can only imagine how that number of sleeping arrangements would grow exponentially with several more children!

As for can you be permissive and punitive at the same time, yep, I've seen it and here's what it looks like:
Mom (from couch): Don't. Don't do that, please. Honey, stop. Quit it. Please stop! . . .(repeat ad nauseum anywhere from 10 minutes to several weeks). . .Stop. STOP! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (finally gets off the couch, grabs kid roughly by the arm, smacks).
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Old 08-07-2006, 07:09 AM   #21
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Quote:
As for can you be permissive and punitive at the same time, yep, I've seen it and here's what it looks like:
Mom (from couch): Don't. Don't do that, please. Honey, stop. Quit it. Please stop! . . .(repeat ad nauseum anywhere from 10 minutes to several weeks). . .Stop. STOP! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (finally gets off the couch, grabs kid roughly by the arm, smacks).
Amy, for practical purposes, could you also show what GBD looks like in the same situation?
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Old 08-07-2006, 07:31 AM   #22
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by candle
Quote:
As for can you be permissive and punitive at the same time, yep, I've seen it and here's what it looks like:
Mom (from couch): Don't. Don't do that, please. Honey, stop. Quit it. Please stop! . . .(repeat ad nauseum anywhere from 10 minutes to several weeks). . .Stop. STOP! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (finally gets off the couch, grabs kid roughly by the arm, smacks).
Amy, for practical purposes, could you also show what GBD looks like in the same situation?
Um, well, it depends on what you want the kid to stop doing! LOL! Crystal or Joanne or any number of people would probably be better able to answer, but here's my stab at it. . .how about the kid is jumping on furniture, for example

Mom (moving out of her seat and toward child): Oops, that's dangerous! (taking child's hand and leading to playroom) we jump in here on the (cushion, old mattress, mini-tramp, whatever).

or. . .

Mom (from couch): you need to sit on furniture.
(if behavior continues): Do you my help to sit on the furniture?
(moving from the couch toward helping child with gentle hands): Furniture is for sitting. I'm helping you sit. (And then I'd probably start a game or something to redirect them to an acceptable activity, tickle, put on some music, get out some blocks, whatever)

or. . .I think there are about a million ways to be gentle with your child, understand where he is developmentally, and give grace for his behavior while still firmly enforcing limits.
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Old 08-07-2006, 09:39 AM   #23
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

I'm new to this forum but have a couple questions. I have a 5yo and an almost 3yo (like in a week). I tend to be a pushover as a mom, I give in because I don't feel like having a battle. I also have fallen into the bad habit of yelling, which I am working on and getting MUCH better about. My problem is what do you do if you ask them to stop doing something and they don't obey. Do you keep giving 'warnings'? What if you give them another warning and then follow through if they're still not obeying and they spend their time screaming? For instance, my 5yo is horrible with this and it's probably my own fault for being such a pushover mom for so long. I end up removing him from the situation and he just screams and hollers. I usually have to pick him up to remove him and he is the size of your average 7yo. Then I get frustrated, and I start to get upset and the cycle goes on and on. HELP ME?!
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Old 08-07-2006, 09:46 AM   #24
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peppymama
I'm new to this forum but have a couple questions. I have a 5yo and an almost 3yo (like in a week). I tend to be a pushover as a mom, I give in because I don't feel like having a battle. I also have fallen into the bad habit of yelling, which I am working on and getting MUCH better about. My problem is what do you do if you ask them to stop doing something and they don't obey. Do you keep giving 'warnings'? What if you give them another warning and then follow through if they're still not obeying and they spend their time screaming? For instance, my 5yo is horrible with this and it's probably my own fault for being such a pushover mom for so long. I end up removing him from the situation and he just screams and hollers. I usually have to pick him up to remove him and he is the size of your average 7yo. Then I get frustrated, and I start to get upset and the cycle goes on and on. HELP ME?!
Probably good, if you're new to the forum, to read the stickies here. That should help *a lot.*

I don't give warnings. I tell them what to do (instead of telling them to stop doing something) - if they don't do what I asked I go to them and help them do the right thing/find an activity. I don't care if they're angry and scream - that's their right to have those feelings.

I also think long and hard - is it worth getting off my butt? If it's health or safety, yes. If it's just annoying behavior, well, sometimes I'll just choose to be annoyed LOL! I pick my battles carefully.

Things may get worse before they get better, but if you're consistent about making your words have actual meaning (by getting up every single time and enforceing your words) he will learn your no means no, your yes means yes, and he will eventually leave off testing your boundaries quite so much.
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Old 08-07-2006, 10:07 AM   #25
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Amy, I am sorry to keep up the questions, but your answers have been very helpful to me also as I have fallen into a rut as well. Thank you for the example above. It was very helpful.

In this quote:

Quote:
I don't give warnings. I tell them what to do (instead of telling them to stop doing something) - if they don't do what I asked I go to them and help them do the right thing/find an activity. I don't care if they're angry and scream - that's their right to have those feelings.
What should I do when my ds throws a fit and I just got the baby down so I can finally put away the laundry, clean, or have a couple of minutes to rest myself? However, ds's fit may wake her up? I understand that he has a right to his feelings, but if it is infringing on dd's much needed naps then what do I do?

Also here is a question:

I am staying at my parent's home right now. Dinnertime: My dad just got home from a long day. He is in the mood for a nice relaxed dinner with his family. Ds is in a mood and throws a fit. I remove him from the situation and bring him downstairs. He doesn't want to be downstairs alone, but I left dd upstairs. She starts to fuss, I am hungry, my parents are trying to have a peaceful evening - what do I do?

Or another senario, ds is fine, but my mom cooked chicken. Ds doesn't eat meat, salad, etc. typically, just peanut butter, mac and cheese, etc. My mom thought that we should try filling his plate with all that we were eating both for health reasons and to get him to eat what had been cooked so that when I was on my own, I wouldn't have to cook two meals. After trying this one night and ds saying he wasn't hungry, pushing away his plate and going to play, my dad asked my mom and I what the difference was if he liked chicken now or 10 years from now, we did not have an answer. So I made him a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, some carrots and a smoothie. Should I try to expand the list of foods he will eat or not and if so, how do I do it? I would love him to love greens. Some of my friend's children eat all kinds of salads. I think that would be so wonderful.

I guess if I was on my own in my own place that I would only cook what dd and ds would eat since they would be the majority. lol
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Old 08-07-2006, 10:21 AM   #26
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

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Originally Posted by candle
Amy, I am sorry to keep up the questions, but your answers have been very helpful to me also as I have fallen into a rut as well. Thank you for the example above. It was very helpful.
It's really fine. But really, reading the stickies and also Joanne's site and Crystal's site will really, really help you get this.

Quote:
In this quote:

Quote:
I don't give warnings. I tell them what to do (instead of telling them to stop doing something) - if they don't do what I asked I go to them and help them do the right thing/find an activity. I don't care if they're angry and scream - that's their right to have those feelings.
What should I do when my ds throws a fit and I just got the baby down so I can finally put away the laundry, clean, or have a couple of minutes to rest myself? However, ds's fit may wake her up? I understand that he has a right to his feelings, but if it is infringing on dd's much needed naps then what do I do?
Well, I can't tell you what you should do. I'll tell you what I do, and that's remove my child from the room and go somewhere with him where I can be behind a closed door, so that he can tantrum without bothering other sleeping family members too much. I know that's not a perfect solution. Also keep in mind, if you let tantrums control you because you'll do anything to keep from waking the baby, he'll know that and continue to do it. They know surprisingly quickly what your buttons are.

Quote:
Also here is a question:

I am staying at my parent's home right now. Dinnertime: My dad just got home from a long day. He is in the mood for a nice relaxed dinner with his family. Ds is in a mood and throws a fit. I remove him from the situation and bring him downstairs. He doesn't want to be downstairs alone, but I left dd upstairs. She starts to fuss, I am hungry, my parents are trying to have a peaceful evening - what do I do?

Or another senario, ds is fine, but my mom cooked chicken. Ds doesn't eat meat, salad, etc. typically, just peanut butter, mac and cheese, etc. My mom thought that we should try filling his plate with all that we were eating both for health reasons and to get him to eat what had been cooked so that when I was on my own, I wouldn't have to cook two meals. After trying this one night and ds saying he wasn't hungry, pushing away his plate and going to play, my dad asked my mom and I what the difference was if he liked chicken now or 10 years from now, we did not have an answer. So I made him a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, some carrots and a smoothie. Should I try to expand the list of foods he will eat or not and if so, how do I do it? I would love him to love greens. Some of my friend's children eat all kinds of salads. I think that would be so wonderful.
Wow, that's really, really hard. One year ago we lived for a month with my in-laws, it was the most stressful time of my life! I felt like I was parenting under a microscope, or in a fishbowl!

1. I do everything I can so that my inlaws can get their peace, but with the knowledge that sometime's that's not going to happen, because they're living with a toddler!

2. I'd make a "tantruming place" away from the rest of the house and that's where you tantrum. It's hard when both kids need you at once, I've many a time held one calm kid while staying in the room with a tantruming one, if the calm one wanted me.

3. You are the parent, so you get to decide what you do with regard to food. It's an individual decision. My personal choice is to make one dinner, and if they don't like it they can have a peanut butter sandwich or a bowl of cereal - nothing that has to be cooked/prepared, though. But it's your choice, whatever you're comfortable with. I get that your parents are trying to help you, but I guess my response would be to take it under advisement, think about it, and then decide what I'm comfortable with.

But it's so stressful! Definitely read the stickies, and definitely explore your own feelings about big feelings coming from your kids. I hope you're in a place to have your own space soon, stress levels will definitely go down.

I guess if I was on my own in my own place that I would only cook what dd and ds would eat since they would be the majority. lol

[/quote]
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Old 08-07-2006, 10:36 AM   #27
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Quote:
We live in a small home, there are 7 of us, one bathroom, and three small bedrooms. This is sad and I hate to admit it but....ds sleeps in the living room, he is four, has no space of his own. DD, 19 mos, sleeps in the room with me and dh (cosleeping).... DD wants to share with the 4 y/o boy and let us keep baby in the room with us, so that she doesn't have to share with two younger sisters. (8 & 10 who share a room together already) Because, heaven forbid, her privacy be violated by the other two, they do not get along, which is one of my reasons for making them share in the first place. They need to learn how to get along and love one another and plus, well, this is terrible, but I want to prove to dd that life isn't always going to happen the way she wants it to and she just has to deal with it.
I think you need to consider changing your approach. You have made these issues a battle, rather than about life and compromise. "I want to prove.." "they need to learn.." I have a brother-in-law that I don't like and don't respect. No problem, I don't have to spend much time with him so I can be polite and patient with him when we need to interact. Now if I was force to be with him a lot, I would be bitter and angry and frustrated all the time - not condusive to 'getting to know and love each other'.

I would sit down with my dh, look at all the options, consider all the personalities and then do what you feel is best. If you feel it is most practical for the 8 and 10 yos to share a room, then so be it. It seems you are creating more stress for yourself than you are solving by making this decision about more than living space. I think if dd13 is willing to share with her 4yo brother and it works for you, that it is a great option.
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Old 08-07-2006, 10:49 AM   #28
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pneumaphile
It's really fine. But really, reading the stickies and also Joanne's site and Crystal's site will really, really help you get this.
I am in the process and yes, it is helping. I just got out of the habit and needed some immediate solutions.

Quote:
They know surprisingly quickly what your buttons are.
They do find that out quickly don't they.

Quote:
I hope you're in a place to have your own space soon, stress levels will definitely go down.
Oh, I don't have a lot of stress here. The stress came before I moved here. But anyway, my folks are great help to me. I am just like my mom in that we read a bunch and forget to mull it over for a time before applying it. My dad on the other hand was trying to GBD my son I think when he suggested that it was ok for him not to like this food at this time in his life. On the one hand I would love to have my own place and have sweet daydreams about it. But on the other hand, I feel very safe right now living with my family and I have a lot of help that I would otherwise not have as a single parent.

I guess there was stress here, but we have all communicated since and have begun to work through issues as they come up rather than waiting until we were stressed. It helps a lot to do that.

Thank you for your help with this. I am feeling a lot better about things and have been very productive today and have seen the side of my 3.5 year old that I know and love. We are on our way to run some errands and play for the rest of the day. Thanks again!
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Old 08-07-2006, 03:05 PM   #29
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Ok, what do you mean 'read the stickies'???? What stickies, where are the stickies???? I've read thmost of this conversation but am very confused.

Next question, what do you do about disrespectful words or tone of voice? I've seen lots of examples on behavior issues but haven't found one on verbal issues and this is where I really need help.
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Old 08-07-2006, 03:27 PM   #30
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Quote:
Ok, what do you mean 'read the stickies'???? What stickies, where are the stickies???? I've read thmost of this conversation but am very confused.
Go to the list of threads at the opening of this (or any) forum. There are threads that cover some basic information on whatever topic the forum is about. They always 'stick' to the top of the forum, so we call them 'stickies'. Don't feel bad, it took me quite a while to figure that on out as well.

http://www.gentlechristianmothers.co...hp?topic=250.0 This is about the 'five steps' that many people find very useful.

Quote:
Next question, what do you do about disrespectful words or tone of voice? I've seen lots of examples on behavior issues but haven't found one on verbal issues and this is where I really need help
It sometimes depends on the age. My girls are older and while I don't get that much, when I do I give a 'I think you might want to try that again without the attitude'. I've heard variations on this, such as 'that was not respectful, please try again.' If it were a problem I would have a discussion about mutual respect - 'I don't speak to you that way and I expect you to not speak to me that way'. I think this is one area where consistancy is really important.
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