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Old 08-10-2006, 06:23 PM   #31
kimhuai
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

My DD is 22 months old. Yesterday, a friend of mine with her own under two year old, witnessed a couple of Bethany meltdowns (she was trying to dress a dolly on her own and very frustrated when she couldn't get the shoe on). I responded to Bethany in my usual way, held her tight, talked her through her frustration (also told her that we don't throw our toys) and showed her how to do what she was trying to do and then let her try it herself. My friend responded by telling her toddler never to behave like Bethany (in front of me and Bethany) and remarking that Bethany had a really hot temper and that her toddler would never behave like that. I responded by explaining (I am positive my slight irritation at my friend's response didn't show through, although I have to admit I did feel it) that different parents have different parenting goals, and none were necessarily better or worse than others, just different. So her goal is obedience, good behaviour and self control, and she is succeeding very well in those areas. Mine for Bethany are somewhat different - I want her to retain a spirited approach with freedom to express her frustrations, creativity and own initiative, but of course I also want her to develop internal controls. But my readings on brain development confirm that the centers in our brain for higher order thinking, such as true empathy (i.e. behave well so as not to hurt others as opposed to behave well because you'll get punished if you don't) start to mature in 2-3 years time from now, so in the meantime I will continue to redirect and explain, but may only reap the rewards of "better behaviour" when she is closer to 4 and able to understand true empathy. It is a longer term goal, and one in which I will have to persevere in the face of apparent lack of progress sometimes . In the meantime, I refuse to compromise her zest for life and zeal for experimentation by introducing any form of punitive discipline, which is of course what my friend advocates. I guess she thinks I'm being permissive, but in truth I'm trying to consistently practice GBD (she's not a Christian, so I can't really explain to her what that means).

I realize also that all our kiddos have different temperaments as well, which certainly accounts for why some are easier to handle and others more challenging. I wouldn't trade Bethany for the world, even though, or perhaps because, she throws lots of challenges my way all the time! I guess I'm just wondering when she'll start to "measure up" to the good behaviour standards expected by society in general and people like my friend in particular, and hoping for some positive affirmation from like-minded moms who've been down this path before me.

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Old 08-11-2006, 05:34 AM   #32
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Minni! What a beautiful way to respond to your friend without putting her on the defensive! I love the way you attributed it to a different goal, rather than trying to argue your point!

And everything you said is true. I can attest that my boys are now where you are predicting your daughter will be, and they are very secure, loving, empathetic, and have internal controls. And of course, they still make mistakes, and they still need discipline.
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Old 08-11-2006, 06:01 AM   #33
kimhuai
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Amy, thanks for the encouragement! It does help to hear from other moms who've BTDT
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Old 08-12-2006, 06:47 AM   #34
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Minni, I am so inspired by your story. It gives me such hope. And, Amy, your affirmation of what she is doing is so helpful to me too. I must admit that time and again I have wondered and resorted to impatient ways of trying to get my 3 1/2 year old to 'behave' and nothing works as well as TLC and GBD. I always know that, but sometimes when you are need to be somewhere and they melt down or you are in a restaurant they melt down, it is a kind of 'what do I do feeling.' Totally helpless. So I bribe or say 'shall we go home?' And that is probably exactly what we should do - not as punishment, but because that is probably where the children would like to be more. But, Minni, your story has made me not feel helpless. It has made me feel empowered by what I believe I should do and that I don't need to worry about what others think. Thank you for your help.
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Old 08-27-2006, 10:12 PM   #35
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

What is a good book to read about the how-to's of Grace Based Discipline? This sounds wonderful. I am having such a hard time with my 10 year old daughter being disrespectful, arguing, and not obeying with a good attitude. Things like getting her to go to bed and go to sleep at a decent hour. Getting up with a cheerful attitude. Doing her homeschool work diligently. Practicing her music. I need direction, as this is trying my patience horribly. I have only recently discovered Gentle Christian Mothering, and now I feel I have much to do to get this to be a part of our family. I want so much to make this work. I am so tired of conflict with my child. All advice will be seriously taken. The more practical, the better. I really want things to change for the better soon.
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Old 08-28-2006, 11:20 AM   #36
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Welcome Mountain Rose! There is a sticky in this forum with a booklist, but I have found the combined wisdom of all GCM to be more helpful than any single book. I have some ideas, but wondered if you might want to start a new thread for 10-year old DD issues first? You might get more responses that way.

Grace-based discipline is hard work, but I also believe that it's a natural way to relate to our children. The transition can be challenging but if you're like me it's also liberating -- I hope you stick around!
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Old 09-08-2006, 08:36 AM   #37
ArmsOfLove
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Minni--that was absolutely beautiful! And if you friend isn't a Christian you can direct her to Becky Bailey or Jane Nelson

GBD is specifically a Grace Based approach to Discipline that I developed based on the Hebraic view of parenting and on the model of God parenting us It applies the tenets of the Christian faith to children (do unto others, fruit of the spirit, etc). Meaning, we are called to treat them that way, not be horrible while we demand it from them

My book Biblical Parenting is the book that explains GBD. At this time I'm having a hard time getting it from my publisher (long story, no reason to go into it), but I'm almost done with my second book Grace Based Living and it goes into everything that Biblical Parenting does AND a lot more! I'm self publishing it and it should be ready to fill orders in a couple of weeks
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Old 09-24-2006, 07:39 PM   #38
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcollins
I think that the key difference between permissiveness and GBD is the D - discipline. Permissive parenting leaves the child on his own and his insecurity over having no one to help and protect him/her makes them act out, usually out of fear and insecurity. Assuming we agree that discipline means teaching, we as parents have a variety of ways to teach our children what they need to know. Punitive discipline teaches them to not do or to do certain things because they have learned to fear punishment and pain. GBD teaches children to do or not to do certain things because we have taught they the reasons why as their maturity allows, have helped them find ways to comply and modeled appropriate behavior and grace to them.

Permissive parenting says 'don't hit, I mean it don't hit, please, please stop hitting....' (they don't stop hitting)
Punitive parenting says 'dont' hit or I will hit you" (they stop hitting to avoid pain)
GBD parenting says 'don't hit because it is unkind and God has taught us to be kind to one another. If you can't control your hitting, I will remove you so that you are not tempted to hit and help you calm down.' (they stop hitting because they either understand or because the parent has stepped in to prevent the hitting)


Crystal, what do you think? Is that an accurate symmary?
Very well put! I have so much to learn!
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Old 04-22-2015, 06:37 AM   #39
Hannah Elise
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticJourney View Post
I think that the key difference between permissiveness and GBD is the D - discipline. Permissive parenting leaves the child on his own and his insecurity over having no one to help and protect him/her makes them act out, usually out of fear and insecurity. Assuming we agree that discipline means teaching, we as parents have a variety of ways to teach our children what they need to know. Punitive discipline teaches them to not do or to do certain things because they have learned to fear punishment and pain. GBD teaches children to do or not to do certain things because we have taught they the reasons why as their maturity allows, have helped them find ways to comply and modeled appropriate behavior and grace to them.

Permissive parenting says 'don't hit, I mean it don't hit, please, please stop hitting....' (they don't stop hitting)
Punitive parenting says 'dont' hit or I will hit you" (they stop hitting to avoid pain)
GBD parenting says 'don't hit because it is unkind and God has taught us to be kind to one another. If you can't control your hitting, I will remove you so that you are not tempted to hit and help you calm down.' (they stop hitting because they either understand or because the parent has stepped in to prevent the hitting)


Crystal, what do you think? Is that an accurate symmary?


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Old 04-22-2015, 12:38 PM   #40
ArmsOfLove
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Default Re: Permissiveness or GBD?

I definitely think that is the balance

One of the most important parts of GBD is being proactive. That's how grace works.

"For God so loved the world that He gave . . . "
"While we were yet sinners God . .. "

God saw the problem and moved to fix it before we even knew we had a problem.

When we focus on telling our children what TO do, preparing them for situations and equipping them with how to respond, scripting, emotional validation, do overs, life skills for calming down and regrouping, and how to ask for help, along with all of the other things that GBD is about teaching them, we set them up for success and *prevent* problems.

Yes, it's hard work following a 3yo around and helping them clean up their own messes, but it's much easier than following a 13yo around and dealing with their messes! If they got the skills at 3 then 13 is that much easier.
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