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Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing. A public forum. Before posting here, please read this sticky and keep guideline 23 in mind:
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05-15-2012, 07:12 AM | #16 |
Rosebud
Zookeeper mama
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 51
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Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
I just want to mention that what Jesus teaches about obedience is so far from Ezzo. My kids and I have had some discussion this week about God's commands and they were wondering what the Bible says.
Obedience and commands have to do with LOVE and JOY. This is what Jesus said about HIS commands: John 15:9-17 says: “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit —fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. This is my command: Love each other. " Also 1 John talks about how Jesus commands are not burdensome. It seems to me that Ezzo and others like him are trying to instill fear into our children. Jesus preached obedience in the context of relationship. It is so rare that I demand my kids do something. They usually listen to me because we have a close joyful relationship. We help each other. I feel that if I forced obedience on my kids the obedience wouldn't be genuine and there would be underlying anger and fear toward me. God said that perfect love casts out fear. As adults we manage our relationships based on mutual love and kindness- why is it any different for our kids? It's preaching like Ezzo and Pearl that takes the gospel and makes it what they want instead of what Jesus REALLY said.
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Tammy wife of 16 years to my Pooky mom to 6 awesome boys: Barney the Dinosaur- 17yrs Cookie Monster- 16yrs Detroit Tiger- 16yrs Panda Bear- 13yrs Dr. Doolittle- 11yrs Sparky- 10yrs Micah 6:8 |
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05-15-2012, 08:58 AM | #17 |
Deactivated
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 279
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Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
I guess I'm confused. I do *not* support Ezzo. But I've taught my children that song and not thought a thing about it. And we did discuss what it meant first. I don't teach them that God doesn't love them if they don't obey. But I do teach them that God says if we love Him we will obey his commandments and the above verse in the other post about 'you are my friends if you keep my commandments'. I tell them that God loves us no matter what, but He wants us to obey Him. I tell them that we will be happiest and most joyful when we are living in the perfect will of God and doing His will. Is this wrong?? I do think that obeying God is a good way to show that we believe in and agree with His commands.
I'm not trying to defend anything, I am truly confused. If anyone wants to enlighten me I'd appreciate it In Christ, Joy |
05-15-2012, 09:44 AM | #18 | |
Rose Garden
The Gospel is for Christians, too :).
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,911
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Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
Quote:
And God is not a narcissistic God - He doesn't work in us just so we'll then do stuff for Him . No, God works in us for our sake and for the sakes of those around us . God loves us, and our response to His love is to let His love overflow and spill out of us to bless others. "God doesn't need our good works, but our neighbor does." But while is it a matter of obedience, it is primarily a matter of love. Obedience without love is nothing. We are loved, and we want to share the love . And God has told us how to best share His love - we obey Him because of love, for the sake of love. Obedience is merely a means to an end - it is meaningless outside of love. As well, we do not obtain any merit for our obedience - we are worthy and have merit because of God's love and His grace at work in us . Our obedience - even our love - is not something we do *for* God . It is something we do *because* of God .
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~ forty-two ~
Possessor of The Answer to Everything and Solver of (Somebody Else's) Problems INTJ: introverted iNtuition with extraverted Thinking DYT 4/2: connecting intellectually and emotionally Enneagram 5w4: a need to perceive and to feel special Wife to my pastor dh (INTP) since 2003 Mother to: dd13, 'R' dd10.5, 'A' ds8, 'J' and two in heaven: miscarried 10/29/04 and 01/01/05 Blog: Lutherama What we want is just one thing, not the thing. |
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05-15-2012, 09:58 AM | #19 |
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Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
I totally agree that obedience without love is nothing. Perhaps I am just dense. I don't think I've taught my children any differently. I am not seeing the issue clearly. I'm truly not trying to argue, I am striving to understand.
I agreed with your entire post. In Christ, Joy |
05-15-2012, 10:07 AM | #20 | |
Rose Garden
The Gospel is for Christians, too :).
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6,911
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Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
WRT "happiest and more joyful when in God's perfect will", the key word there is "perfect" . Obedience to good rules is good; obedience to bad rules is bad.
So the point is to do good, whether that requires obedience or disobedience. Granted, the default *is* to obey all lawful authorities unless they are actively wrong. So if a lawful authority says, "Don't do <good thing A>", we should obey them unless God has *commanded* us to do <good thing A>. If God has merely allowed us to do <good thing A>, but has not commanded us to do so, then we should obey our lawful authority and not do <good thing A>, even though it is not a universal law. So a habit of thinking obedience is a good thing, but it's not *the* good thing. *Love* is the ultimate Good Thing. ---------- Post added at 12:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 PM ---------- Quote:
It's just that mostly, people who use songs like that are *not* using them rightly . They are using them to elevate obedience over everything else, to make our standing as a Christian dependent on what we *do* . Anything can be misused, and many things can be used for both good and evil. For many GCMers, songs like this are too often misused, and so they prefer to avoid them outright, seeing the potential good as outweighed by the too-frequently-seen harm .
__________________
~ forty-two ~
Possessor of The Answer to Everything and Solver of (Somebody Else's) Problems INTJ: introverted iNtuition with extraverted Thinking DYT 4/2: connecting intellectually and emotionally Enneagram 5w4: a need to perceive and to feel special Wife to my pastor dh (INTP) since 2003 Mother to: dd13, 'R' dd10.5, 'A' ds8, 'J' and two in heaven: miscarried 10/29/04 and 01/01/05 Blog: Lutherama What we want is just one thing, not the thing. |
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05-15-2012, 10:12 AM | #21 | |
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"When life gives you lemons, cut them in half and squirt life in the eye!" - Unknown
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Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
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05-15-2012, 11:50 AM | #22 |
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Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
I see. Ok. I do strive to explain things like that to my children. For example the song :
I'm in right Outright Upright Downright Happy all the time Since Jesus Christ came in And cleansed my heart from sin I'm inright Outright Upright Downright Happy all the time Drives me NUTS. But, the children's song leader has the kids sing it and my dh doesn't see it as a big deal so I just explained to the kids that while having *Jesus* makes us happy all the time, that doesn't mean everything in our lives will be happy all the time. etc. I was raised with all those songs and I guess I didn't think much about them b/c my own mother always made it so clear that God=love etc. But then as an adult I started attending legalistic style churches and I'm having to re learn all that again. Trying to keep my mind on Christ and not all the 'rules' I have to follow to be worthy etc. In Christ, Joy |
05-15-2012, 12:04 PM | #23 | |
Rose Garden
I am so hopelessly in love..
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chillin' in the California hills
Posts: 24,678
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Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
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05-18-2012, 10:00 AM | #24 | |
Climbing Rose
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,489
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Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
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05-26-2012, 05:24 PM | #25 | |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North Eastern CA
Posts: 9,119
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Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
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~Emily INTJ, Type 4 Wife to D Mama to: E 12/05 L 7/08 Z 12/10 A 6/14 and J in heaven 2/10 Torah Keeping, Unschooling Family My blog on unschooling and family life: Peace On Dark Nights. |
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05-26-2012, 05:36 PM | #26 |
Rose Garden
Taking one day at a time...
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Location: Far from home...
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Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
As always, an enlightening and encouraging post from Kathy. Thank you for sharing this.
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05-26-2012, 05:57 PM | #27 |
Climbing Rose
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SW Virginia
Posts: 1,173
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Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
I wish I could quote, but it's tough on my phone.
To saturnfire: I do want to teach my children that if they love God they will obey him. But not because they are children. And not that obedience to God = obedience to every little thing mom and dad say. Just like the verse that was quoted about obedience being about love. To Joyanne: when I was a kid, the word obedience was taught to mean obeying your parents and you will be obeying God. So with that in mind, the lyrics are really untrue and harmful. Obey your parents is basically THE WAY kids follow and exemplify a life in God. Like someone else said, nevermind the fruit of the Spirit. It is yet another example in our culture of how all we want of kids is for them to be well-behaved. That is the most important "virtue" on our culture. But if you teach the proper meaning of obedience, Joyanne, like you explained then that is a beautiful and rare thing.
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Wife to Jack of All Trades since 2007.
Mama to WiggleWorm (DS, 6/2010) and Snugglebug (DD, 12/12). |
05-27-2012, 09:31 AM | #28 | |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North Eastern CA
Posts: 9,119
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Re: A quote on obedience from an Ezzo teaching video
Quote:
If they love God they *will* obey him. Every time, right away? No, of course not. But that *will* be the desire of their hearts. So my goal is not to teach them that if they love God they will obey him, because that will come natural when they DO love him. So I think my job is to parent in a way that does not get in the way of them loving him, and teach them his commands so they know HOW to obey him. THEN when they grow to love him themselves they *will* obey him.
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~Emily INTJ, Type 4 Wife to D Mama to: E 12/05 L 7/08 Z 12/10 A 6/14 and J in heaven 2/10 Torah Keeping, Unschooling Family My blog on unschooling and family life: Peace On Dark Nights. |
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