order: God, husband, then kids

SweetCaroline · 03-28-2012, 06:38 AM

somebody pulled this on me this morning.

admittedly- i came from this same mindset. actually the girl who said it was from my old church.

can you give me your best concise explaination as to why this is not the right way to look at it.

when somebody counters AP with that economic explaination of 'relationships' i just go :

ShiriChayim · 03-28-2012, 06:50 AM

First of all it is very clearly extra Biblical. Any attempt at using the Bible to support this is wildly proof texted and just bizarre.

Secondly, it seems totally and completely crazy to me to place the needs of a fully grown capable self sufficient adult over the needs of the tiny helpless fully dependent baby that the two of you created. People who don't want to care for babies have no business having them. Along with that, I quite frankly lose all kinds of respect for a man who gets his wife pregnant and then whines about all of his "needs" coming first

Seriously!

Finally, there is really no need to place or prioritize one family member over another. Quite frankly that's just ridiculous to even think about.

Families are a unit, they work together and provide for each other. The needs of the infant certainly do NOT have to mean that anyone else is neglected, the kind of thinking sets up a completely necessary dichotomy and adversarial tug of war for the mother. People's needs get met all together. The daddy is JUST AS IMPORTANT as mommy in those times (not to mention babywearing daddy's are seriously sexy!!!!!) for that little tiny one. But that little tiny one didn't ask to be born, and it cannot feed, clothe, or change itself. Daddy can do all those things for himself.

Those times of caring for the little ones can be such beautiful moments that bond husband and wife together as they learn to be a team to care for their growing family. And let me tell you, any time I've seen my dh curled up with the baby in bed, or walking the little one who is crying at night, or doing the dishes and bringing something to drink while I nurse-in those moments my love and adoration for him just swells.

katiekind · 03-28-2012, 06:50 AM

Because it is all the same thing--it is a fool's errand to slice and dice relationships of this type into "who" is getting "what" for "why."

Who are you serving when you take care of a sick child? Jesus said if you do it to the least, you do it to him.

Who are you serving when you do something nice for your children's father?

Who was serving who when Jesus washed the disciples feet?

forty-two · 03-28-2012, 06:52 AM

One of the chief texts for it is Titus 2:4, that older women should teach the young women to love their husbands and children. People take the fact husbands are listed before children to imply some sort of priority order. But I asked my Dh, who knows Greek, about it, and he said that there is no order or priority implied at all in the Greek - it means women should love their husbands, and women should love their children - no sense of one more than the other at all

.

Llee · 03-28-2012, 07:02 AM

My dh and I work together to meet our family's needs. Sometimes baby is in the most need, sometimes dh, sometimes me, sometimes the dog.

But WE meet our FAMILY's needs. No need/desire to compete for who should come first.

(and quite frankly if it's a "Biblical" thing, then animals matter more than humans, since they were created on the same day before humans

)

ThreeKids · 03-28-2012, 07:06 AM

The burden of proof is not on you to disprove a statement that she hasn't attempted to prove.

eoconnel · 03-28-2012, 07:19 AM

That is just baloney. But I will say that I intentionally work very hard on my marriage and giving dh enough attention. Not because he comes before the kids but because we are modeling a loving relationship for our children. Though at this point in my children's lives most of that attention comes after they go to bed since they are at the ages that demand attention.

HomeWithMyBabies · 03-28-2012, 07:23 AM

My most concise response is, I never read that anywhere in the Bible.

BlessedBlue · 03-28-2012, 07:24 AM

That goes hand in hand with Jesus, Others and You

In either paradigm the server (the woman) is at the bottom of the stack.

I really think that we should Love God. And as we love God we love and serve others. Sometimes triage is necessary for prioritization.

Katigre · 03-28-2012, 07:30 AM

Here is how I view it (some credit to C.S. Lewis here

) - there are different realms of love for different relationships. The love/loyalty that I have for God is not the same as the love/loyalty that I have for my husband, my children, or my friends. There are similarities to be sure but they are also different 'realms' that should not be in competition with each other

. If there is competition felt then that means either I am viewing things poorly or I am prioritizing relationships poorly - giving love from one realm to another.

My ultimate loyalty and love should be toward God in the 'first love' type of sense. But that just means that I should not give anyone else the place of God in my life - idolatry is easy to fall into with any sort of relationship (easier for some people than others) and that is what to guard against.

In terms of my marriage and my children, they are different realms of love. It would be inappropriate to give my DH the love I am supposed to have for my children. In the same way, it would be unhealthy to give my children the love/loyalty that I am supposed to have for my DH.

I have seen scenarios where this is true and it's unhealthy and not right - but that doesn't mean you have to go to a hierarchy

. It means you just apportion your affection/love/time/priorities into their correct spheres of influence instead.

Does that make sense? God has given me love for Him, love for my DH, and love for my children. If I love each category to the fullest in the way it is designed to be then there is no hierarchy/ranking going on b/c they're overlapping circles within my being and relationships vs. a numbered list of 1, 2, 3, etc...

ThreeKids · 03-28-2012, 07:44 AM

All the law is contained in...

"'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

It doesn't say put your neighbor above yourself. It doesn't say put your husband above your neighbor.

SweetCaroline · 03-28-2012, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katigre

Here is how I view it (some credit to C.S. Lewis here

) - there are different realms of love for different relationships. The love/loyalty that I have for God is not the same as the love/loyalty that I have for my husband, my children, or my friends. There are similarities to be sure but they are also different 'realms' that should not be in competition with each other

. If there is competition felt then that means either I am viewing things poorly or I am prioritizing relationships poorly - giving love from one realm to another.

My ultimate loyalty and love should be toward God in the 'first love' type of sense. But that just means that I should not give anyone else the place of God in my life - idolatry is easy to fall into with any sort of relationship (easier for some people than others) and that is what to guard against.

In terms of my marriage and my children, they are different realms of love. It would be inappropriate to give my DH the love I am supposed to have for my children. In the same way, it would be unhealthy to give my children the love/loyalty that I am supposed to have for my DH.

I have seen scenarios where this is true and it's unhealthy and not right - but that doesn't mean you have to go to a hierarchy

. It means you just apportion your affection/love/time/priorities into their correct spheres of influence instead.

Does that make sense? God has given me love for Him, love for my DH, and love for my children. If I love each category to the fullest in the way it is designed to be then there is no hierarchy/ranking going on b/c they're overlapping circles within my being and relationships vs. a numbered list of 1, 2, 3, etc...

nice. can i copy & paste this?

houseforjoy · 03-28-2012, 07:54 AM

the only biblical order is Where Jesus says the two greatest commands are first Love God, and second Love others. the others are not catagorized

Katigre · 03-28-2012, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetCaroline

nice. can i copy & paste this?

Sure thing

ArmsOfLove · 03-28-2012, 10:12 AM

Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom of God and ALL THESE THINGS shall be added unto you

God FIRST, everyone and everything NEXT

If the Greatest Command is to love God and love your neighbor as yourself then it seems *if you are going to create a hierarchy* it would have to be:

GOD
All of our neighbors
Our Family

Except your family are also your neighbors because the question the parable answers is are YOU a good neighbor

So, that leads us back to First God, everyone and everything NEXT.

03-28-2012, 06:38 AM	#1
SweetCaroline Rose Garden a little Attachment Parenting will fix that Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 3,981	order: God, husband, then kids somebody pulled this on me this morning. admittedly- i came from this same mindset. actually the girl who said it was from my old church. can you give me your best concise explaination as to why this is not the right way to look at it. when somebody counters AP with that economic explaination of 'relationships' i just go : __________________ Gently mothering 5 babes one day at a time, only by the help of my Lord - ages 11,6,5, 4, & 2 Nonviolence is not sterile passivity, but a powerful moral force which makes for social transformation. -- Martin Luther King, Jr. ISFP

03-28-2012, 06:50 AM	#2
ShiriChayim Rose Garden Rock on!!! Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 18,102	Re: order: God, husband, then kids First of all it is very clearly extra Biblical. Any attempt at using the Bible to support this is wildly proof texted and just bizarre. Secondly, it seems totally and completely crazy to me to place the needs of a fully grown capable self sufficient adult over the needs of the tiny helpless fully dependent baby that the two of you created. People who don't want to care for babies have no business having them. Along with that, I quite frankly lose all kinds of respect for a man who gets his wife pregnant and then whines about all of his "needs" coming first Seriously! Finally, there is really no need to place or prioritize one family member over another. Quite frankly that's just ridiculous to even think about. Families are a unit, they work together and provide for each other. The needs of the infant certainly do NOT have to mean that anyone else is neglected, the kind of thinking sets up a completely necessary dichotomy and adversarial tug of war for the mother. People's needs get met all together. The daddy is JUST AS IMPORTANT as mommy in those times (not to mention babywearing daddy's are seriously sexy!!!!!) for that little tiny one. But that little tiny one didn't ask to be born, and it cannot feed, clothe, or change itself. Daddy can do all those things for himself. Those times of caring for the little ones can be such beautiful moments that bond husband and wife together as they learn to be a team to care for their growing family. And let me tell you, any time I've seen my dh curled up with the baby in bed, or walking the little one who is crying at night, or doing the dishes and bringing something to drink while I nurse-in those moments my love and adoration for him just swells. __________________ ~Heather~ ENFP married to my ENJF hubby gently mothering: ds15yo- the performer, ds14yo- the gamer, ds 12yo- the adventurer, and dd 10yo-the dynamo Missing my little Malachi David and Hannah Danielle, in Jesus' arms Check out my blog "Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You." Dr Seuss

03-28-2012, 06:50 AM	#3
katiekind Deactivated Peace be with you. Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: the sweet sunny south Posts: 15,346	Re: order: God, husband, then kids Because it is all the same thing--it is a fool's errand to slice and dice relationships of this type into "who" is getting "what" for "why." Who are you serving when you take care of a sick child? Jesus said if you do it to the least, you do it to him. Who are you serving when you do something nice for your children's father? Who was serving who when Jesus washed the disciples feet?

03-28-2012, 06:52 AM	#4
forty-two Rose Garden The Gospel is for Christians, too :). Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,911	Re: order: God, husband, then kids One of the chief texts for it is Titus 2:4, that older women should teach the young women to love their husbands and children. People take the fact husbands are listed before children to imply some sort of priority order. But I asked my Dh, who knows Greek, about it, and he said that there is no order or priority implied at all in the Greek - it means women should love their husbands, and women should love their children - no sense of one more than the other at all . __________________ ~ forty-two ~ Possessor of The Answer to Everything and Solver of (Somebody Else's) Problems INTJ: introverted iNtuition with extraverted Thinking DYT 4/2: connecting intellectually and emotionally Enneagram 5w4: a need to perceive and to feel special Wife to my pastor dh (INTP) since 2003 Mother to: dd13, 'R' dd10.5, 'A' ds8, 'J' and two in heaven: miscarried 10/29/04 and 01/01/05 Blog: Lutherama What we want is just one* thing, not the thing.*

03-28-2012, 07:02 AM	#5
Llee Moderator Dancing stands with all seahorses who are journeying to freedom Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 19,197	Re: order: God, husband, then kids My dh and I work together to meet our family's needs. Sometimes baby is in the most need, sometimes dh, sometimes me, sometimes the dog. But WE meet our FAMILY's needs. No need/desire to compete for who should come first. (and quite frankly if it's a "Biblical" thing, then animals matter more than humans, since they were created on the same day before humans ) __________________ It's me, dh, Dressy Bessy (Sept 08) and Dancing Daisy (May 10) Lead the children to see in every pleasant and beautiful thing an expression of God's love for them. Recommend your religion to them by its pleasantness. Let the law of kindness be in your lips. ~Ellen G. White

03-28-2012, 07:06 AM	#6
ThreeKids Rose Garden Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: .. Posts: 10,737	Re: order: God, husband, then kids The burden of proof is not on you to disprove a statement that she hasn't attempted to prove. __________________ DS (12), DD (10), DD2 (7) And my kids were going to behave perfectly all the time and if they didn't, they'd be Dobsoned, but I was going to Dobson so perfectly that they'd know not to slip up but once or twice because I was going to be sooooooo consistent and awesome and wise.

03-28-2012, 07:19 AM	#7
eoconnel Rose Garden Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NC in the BBQ Capital Posts: 9,764	Re: order: God, husband, then kids That is just baloney. But I will say that I intentionally work very hard on my marriage and giving dh enough attention. Not because he comes before the kids but because we are modeling a loving relationship for our children. Though at this point in my children's lives most of that attention comes after they go to bed since they are at the ages that demand attention. __________________ Elizabeth ESFJ loving wife to Charlie (7/15/00) Mommy to a full house Emma (2/16/04) my Goosie Colin (12/12/05) my Monkey Max (3/2/09) my Bird Plexus Worldwide Ambassador Ask me how you can get healthier, lose weight and earn money with Plexus Worldwide!

03-28-2012, 07:23 AM	#8
HomeWithMyBabies Rose Garden Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 24,062	Re: order: God, husband, then kids My most concise response is, I never read that anywhere in the Bible. __________________ Mom of 3

03-28-2012, 07:24 AM	#9
BlessedBlue Rose Garden Have you ever heard a fly roar? Listen carefully! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Walking with broken bootstraps... Posts: 7,152	Re: order: God, husband, then kids That goes hand in hand with Jesus, Others and You In either paradigm the server (the woman) is at the bottom of the stack. I really think that we should Love God. And as we love God we love and serve others. Sometimes triage is necessary for prioritization. __________________ sister to Blue-EyedLady since forever wife to Trooper (Wounded Warrior) 3-98 Graphics designing sapphiremama to EBug 2-04, ABoo 2-06, and Goggle 8-09

03-28-2012, 07:30 AM	#10
Katigre Rose Garden Why thank you, it is naturally blue... Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 21,278	Re: order: God, husband, then kids Here is how I view it (some credit to C.S. Lewis here ) - there are different realms of love for different relationships. The love/loyalty that I have for God is not the same as the love/loyalty that I have for my husband, my children, or my friends. There are similarities to be sure but they are also different 'realms' that should not be in competition with each other . If there is competition felt then that means either I am viewing things poorly or I am prioritizing relationships poorly - giving love from one realm to another. My ultimate loyalty and love should be toward God in the 'first love' type of sense. But that just means that I should not give anyone else the place of God in my life - idolatry is easy to fall into with any sort of relationship (easier for some people than others) and that is what to guard against. In terms of my marriage and my children, they are different realms of love. It would be inappropriate to give my DH the love I am supposed to have for my children. In the same way, it would be unhealthy to give my children the love/loyalty that I am supposed to have for my DH. I have seen scenarios where this is true and it's unhealthy and not right - but that doesn't mean you have to go to a hierarchy . It means you just apportion your affection/love/time/priorities into their correct spheres of influence instead. Does that make sense? God has given me love for Him, love for my DH, and love for my children. If I love each category to the fullest in the way it is designed to be then there is no hierarchy/ranking going on b/c they're overlapping circles within my being and relationships vs. a numbered list of 1, 2, 3, etc...

03-28-2012, 07:44 AM	#11
ThreeKids Rose Garden Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: .. Posts: 10,737	Re: order: God, husband, then kids All the law is contained in... "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" It doesn't say put your neighbor above yourself. It doesn't say put your husband above your neighbor. __________________ DS (12), DD (10), DD2 (7) And my kids were going to behave perfectly all the time and if they didn't, they'd be Dobsoned, but I was going to Dobson so perfectly that they'd know not to slip up but once or twice because I was going to be sooooooo consistent and awesome and wise.

03-28-2012, 07:54 AM	#13
houseforjoy Rose Garden trying to live like olaf "this is the best day of my life!... and quite possibly the last!" Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: in the sunshine with my own personal flurry Posts: 9,563	Re: order: God, husband, then kids the only biblical order is Where Jesus says the two greatest commands are first Love God, and second Love others. the others are not catagorized __________________ Amanda, ENFJ Mommy to my bounty: ds 13 years, dd 12 years, dd 9 years , dd 6 and ds 4 Psalm 13 How long, O Lord? Will you forget me forever?How long will you hide your face from me? 2 How long must I take counsel in my soul and have sorrow in my heart all the day?....because I am shaken. 5 But I have trusted in your steadfast love; my heart shall rejoice in your salvation. 6 I will sing to the Lord, because he has dealt bountifully with me.

03-28-2012, 10:12 AM	#15
ArmsOfLove Rose Garden Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 79,607	Re: order: God, husband, then kids Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom of God and ALL THESE THINGS shall be added unto you God FIRST, everyone and everything NEXT If the Greatest Command is to love God and love your neighbor as yourself then it seems if you are going to create a hierarchy it would have to be: GOD All of our neighbors Our Family Except your family are also your neighbors because the question the parable answers is are YOU a good neighbor So, that leads us back to First God, everyone and everything NEXT. __________________ Crystal "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." Maya Angelou

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