making lies the truth??

milkmommy · 09-21-2014, 08:57 AM

So I was amoung a larger discussion in my local homeschooling group. One of the parents talked about how her oldest kid started this. "You never" bit one day (about going out for ice cream after some practice) so she said that they don't lie so to make sure his words weren't lies they never went out for ice cream again (assuming after what ever practice). So his words would be the truth...
All the moms ohh and ahhed over this womans wise ways....
I thought

But if you had once gone then suddenly stopping still doesn't change the fact you once did. SO technically saying we never still continues to be a "lie".

Plus even if you never did and tomorrow you do then

Well that is a different day and doesn't negate the actions or decessions of the past.

I get not wanting the you never whine. I get saying look kid be careful with your words.. I can even get choosing to not go to send a message what I don't get is this idea it suddenly made his words the truth..

It seriously hurt my head to follow the logic..

Deanna

WanderingJuniper · 09-21-2014, 09:48 AM

That's because there is no logic in that concept. What would it teach?

MegMarch · 09-21-2014, 10:13 AM

Ooooooor maybe teach them to "try again" and teach some new ways to express disappointment?

Kiara.I · 09-21-2014, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WanderingJuniper

That's because there is no logic in that concept. What would it teach?

Power and control.

(In all the bad ways.)

milkmommy · 09-21-2014, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiara.I

Power and control.

(In all the bad ways.)

This it might be one thing to not go out for ice cream that ONE time (or maybe even a short season) if this is an issue one feels needs to be addressed more front and center but no apparently this first incident happened with the oldest kid years ago and now ice cream is off for everyone even new siblings born since the incident.

And of course their is no rule that says your a bad parent for never going out for ice cream.. It was the whole look we made his words the "truth" thing I couldn't get.

HadassahSukkot · 09-21-2014, 10:29 AM

To me, I think the "You never.." could be challenged.

"Sure we do. Remember when we _____ back on/in ______? You're right though. It's been a LONG time. Let's pencil that in on our calendar and make it happen again!"

Or am I crazy for thinking that?

milkmommy · 09-21-2014, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HadassahSukkot

To me, I think the "You never.." could be challenged.

"Sure we do. Remember when we _____ back on/in ______? You're right though. It's been a LONG time. Let's pencil that in on our calendar and make it happen again!"

Or am I crazy for thinking that?

nope it is exactly what I thought.

ShiriChayim · 09-21-2014, 11:04 AM

(My very literal memory like a steel trap aspie son would have an absolute field day with that one...

)

CelticJourney · 09-21-2014, 12:15 PM

So with the words of a child, the parent loses free will - yeah, like that's a plan for a healthy family.

saturnfire16 · 09-21-2014, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CelticJourney

So with the words of a child, the parent loses free will - yeah, like that's a plan for a healthy family.

Yah, what will she do if the kid says, "You never fix us broccoli!"

twoplustwo · 09-21-2014, 01:01 PM

I followed your thinking on the situation.

Also, yesterday we went out for ice cream after my son's game.

That's all I have to add to this conversation.

Kiara.I · 09-21-2014, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saturnfire16

Yah, what will she do if the kid says, "You never fix us broccoli!"

Yeah, a smart kid could go a looooooong way with these parents.....

---------- Post added at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkmommy

This it might be one thing to not go out for ice cream that ONE time (or maybe even a short season) if this is an issue one feels needs to be addressed more front and center but no apparently this first incident happened with the oldest kid years ago and now ice cream is off for everyone even new siblings born since the incident.

I think what they will teach is that their children cannot ever trust them because they are not safe. The children will learn to say nothing, ever, to their parents, in order to keep themselves safe.

Soliloquy · 09-21-2014, 01:48 PM

You never make me clean my room.
You never make me clean the bathroom.
You never tell me to mow the lawn.

Wow, I'm in, I'm going to start talking this way!

Adults say this, I'm even guilty of it. A gentle reminder is all that is needed. I don't allow my kids to say, "I'm starving!" for example. To me, it's disrespectful of the people who are, literally, dying from a lack of food. I tell them to choose different words.

milkmommy · 09-22-2014, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soliloquy

You never make me clean my room.
You never make me clean the bathroom.
You never tell me to mow the lawn.

Wow, I'm in, I'm going to start talking this way!

Adults say this, I'm even guilty of it. A gentle reminder is all that is needed. I don't allow my kids to say, "I'm starving!" for example. To me, it's disrespectful of the people who are, literally, dying from a lack of food. I tell them to choose different words.

So true. Somehow with this lady I think if he'd pulled the you never make me insert chore or disliked food it be viewed as not just lying but defiance. This is the mama who donated all her no greater joy materials to our homeschooling group liabary.

cbmk4 · 09-22-2014, 09:28 AM

I think of all the times I have used hyperbole to express emotion or make a point. I would be very irate if that had been cast up to me as "lying." An empathetic and gentle statement such as "It has really been (or seemed) like a long time..." Would have been a much nicer way to address his use of the word never.

09-21-2014, 08:57 AM	#1
milkmommy Rose Garden sisters! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sunniest place on Earth and hotter than Phoenix! Might as well be sitting on the sun... Posts: 35,300	making lies the truth?? So I was amoung a larger discussion in my local homeschooling group. One of the parents talked about how her oldest kid started this. "You never" bit one day (about going out for ice cream after some practice) so she said that they don't lie so to make sure his words weren't lies they never went out for ice cream again (assuming after what ever practice). So his words would be the truth... All the moms ohh and ahhed over this womans wise ways.... I thought But if you had once gone then suddenly stopping still doesn't change the fact you once did. SO technically saying we never still continues to be a "lie". Plus even if you never did and tomorrow you do then Well that is a different day and doesn't negate the actions or decessions of the past. I get not wanting the you never whine. I get saying look kid be careful with your words.. I can even get choosing to not go to send a message what I don't get is this idea it suddenly made his words the truth.. It seriously hurt my head to follow the logic.. Deanna __________________ Deanna wife to Shawn since 2001 mom to a young adult Cecilia , tween Margaret and three I will hold one day in heaven.

09-21-2014, 09:48 AM	#2
WanderingJuniper Rose Garden Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10,819	Re: making lies the truth?? That's because there is no logic in that concept. What would it teach?

09-21-2014, 10:13 AM	#3
MegMarch Rose Garden Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 5,922	Re: making lies the truth?? Ooooooor maybe teach them to "try again" and teach some new ways to express disappointment?

09-21-2014, 10:29 AM	#6
HadassahSukkot Deactivated being oppressed means the absence of choices - bell hooks Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 8,892	Re: making lies the truth?? To me, I think the "You never.." could be challenged. "Sure we do. Remember when we _____ back on/in ______? You're right though. It's been a LONG time. Let's pencil that in on our calendar and make it happen again!" Or am I crazy for thinking that?

09-21-2014, 11:04 AM	#8
ShiriChayim Rose Garden Rock on!!! Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 18,102	Re: making lies the truth?? (My very literal memory like a steel trap aspie son would have an absolute field day with that one... ) __________________ ~Heather~ ENFP married to my ENJF hubby gently mothering: ds15yo- the performer, ds14yo- the gamer, ds 12yo- the adventurer, and dd 10yo-the dynamo Missing my little Malachi David and Hannah Danielle, in Jesus' arms Check out my blog "Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You." Dr Seuss

09-21-2014, 12:15 PM	#9
CelticJourney Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 34,565	Re: making lies the truth?? So with the words of a child, the parent loses free will - yeah, like that's a plan for a healthy family. __________________ Elizabeth "Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19

09-21-2014, 01:01 PM	#11
twoplustwo Moderator Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 6,537	Re: making lies the truth?? I followed your thinking on the situation. Also, yesterday we went out for ice cream after my son's game. That's all I have to add to this conversation. __________________ ESFJ DYT 3/2, Enneagram 9w8 married to My Guy (2003) mom to: Cherished (dd, 12/2005) Warrior (ds, 07/2007) saved & baptized (2004) Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Matthew 16:16

09-21-2014, 01:48 PM	#13
Soliloquy Rose Garden Why climb a mountain? Because it's there! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Selkirk Mountains Posts: 52,860	Re: making lies the truth?? You never make me clean my room. You never make me clean the bathroom. You never tell me to mow the lawn. Wow, I'm in, I'm going to start talking this way! Adults say this, I'm even guilty of it. A gentle reminder is all that is needed. I don't allow my kids to say, "I'm starving!" for example. To me, it's disrespectful of the people who are, literally, dying from a lack of food. I tell them to choose different words.

09-22-2014, 09:28 AM	#15
cbmk4 Rose Garden INTJ Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,198	Re: making lies the truth?? I think of all the times I have used hyperbole to express emotion or make a point. I would be very irate if that had been cast up to me as "lying." An empathetic and gentle statement such as "It has really been (or seemed) like a long time..." Would have been a much nicer way to address his use of the word never. __________________ Married to my sweetheart for 25 years Mama to my four dear children ages 22, 19, (forever 13) and 10

X vBulletin 3.8.3 Debug Information
Page Generation 0.18190 seconds Memory Usage 8,197KB Queries Executed 14 (?)
More Information
Template Usage: (1)SHOWTHREAD (1)ad_footer_end (1)ad_footer_start (1)ad_header_end (1)ad_header_logo (1)ad_navbar_below (1)ad_showthread_beforeqr (1)ad_showthread_firstpost (1)ad_showthread_firstpost_sig (1)ad_showthread_firstpost_start (7)bbcode_quote (1)cyb_flashimagebanners (1)footer (1)forumjump (1)forumrules (1)gobutton (1)header (1)headinclude (1)navbar (3)navbar_link (60)option (1)pagenav (1)pagenav_curpage (1)pagenav_pagelink (15)post_groan_box (1)post_groan_javascript (1)post_groan_navbar_search (15)post_thanks_box (66)post_thanks_box_bit (1)post_thanks_javascript (1)post_thanks_navbar_search (12)post_thanks_postbit_legacy (15)postbit_legacy (15)postbit_onlinestatus (145)postbit_reputation (15)postbit_wrapper (4)showthread_bookmarksite (1)smqre_editor_button (1)spacer_close (1)spacer_open (1)tagbit_wrapper Phrase Groups Available: global inlinemod postbit posting reputationlevel showthread	Included Files: ./showthread.php ./global.php ./includes/init.php ./includes/class_core.php ./includes/config.php ./includes/functions.php ./includes/class_hook.php ./includes/functions_notice.php ./mobiquo/smartbanner.php ./mobiquo/include/classTTConnection.php ./mobiquo/smartbanner/head.inc.php ./includes/functions_bigthree.php ./includes/class_postbit.php ./includes/class_bbcode.php ./includes/functions_reputation.php ./includes/adminfunctions_template.php ./includes/functions_misc.php ./includes/functions_post_thanks.php ./includes/functions_post_groan.php Hooks Called: init_startup cache_permissions fetch_threadinfo_query fetch_threadinfo fetch_foruminfo style_fetch cache_templates global_start parse_templates fetch_musername notices_check_start global_setup_complete showthread_start template_groups template_safe_functions template_compile showthread_getinfo forumjump showthread_post_start showthread_query_postids showthread_query bbcode_fetch_tags bbcode_create showthread_postbit_create postbit_factory postbit_display_start post_thanks_function_post_thanks_off_start post_thanks_function_post_thanks_off_end post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_start post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_end post_thanks_function_thanked_already_start post_thanks_function_thanked_already_end post_groan_function_post_groan_off_start post_groan_function_post_groan_off_end post_groan_function_fetch_groans_start post_groan_function_fetch_groans_end post_groan_function_groaned_already_start post_groan_function_groaned_already_end reputation_image bbcode_parse_start postbit_imicons bbcode_parse_complete_precache bbcode_parse_complete postbit_display_complete error_fetch post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_bit_start post_thanks_function_show_thanks_date_start post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_bit_end post_thanks_function_fetch_post_thanks_template_start post_thanks_function_fetch_post_thanks_template_end pagenav_page pagenav_complete tag_fetchbit_complete forumrules showthread_bookmarkbit navbits navbits_complete showthread_complete
Messages: