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09-11-2018, 04:06 AM | #1 | |
Rose Blossom
Married to DH since 2009, Two ginger DS babies 2013/2015, Chihuahua mom, Forever Changed
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Location: Indiana
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5 year old stays awake
He will stay awake all night if he can find enough reasons....he’s always been rough in the sleep department since birth. But he’s been in his own bed in his own room for 2 1/2 years now.
Things have gotten worse and worse and I’m so exhausted I’m desperate. He wakes me up over nothing all night long. In and out of his room. For example he woke up at 1:30 this morning for a drink....and proceeded to take 5 potty breaks following that sip of water and never went back to sleep. How is this even possible??? He doesn’t nap. His sleep deprivation is affecting everything too. He can’t even manage to go from the house to the car without a meltdown. I’m majorly summarizing here bc it’s so much to explain. He is anxious and obsessive with his belongings. And refuses to ever be alone. Which as an introverted person myself, is exhausting. He talks nonstop. But when I sit down to play with him (pretend or a game) he won’t play. He would rather talk at me or interrupt his little brother who pretends off on his own happily most of the day. He also has chronic upper and lower respiratory illness so he does 45mins of meds twice daily. He’s just beginning pre-k at home. And we have always been strict with diet and play time and sleep time etc. we follow through and are consistent. Always have been. The only way to even get him to initially fall asleep is two children’s chewable melatonin tabs. But he never stays asleep. But on the rare days when he happens to sleep a decent night and take a nap too, he’s an incredible and totally different kid! Someone please tell me I’m not alone here. Do I take him to a therapist for the anxiety and aggressive behaviors (mostly emotionally aggressive with all of us, but he will be physically aggressive too if anyone dares touch or move his things..) Disclaimer-his Dad had an emotional burn out and was gone from the house for 2months at the start of 2018 which has compounded all of these issues that DS was already having. I’m completely at a loss...I’m so sorry this is a crazy long post Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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09-11-2018, 04:35 AM | #2 |
Rose Garden
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
You can get an extended melatonin, but I'd think the chewable would stay in the mouth and give an extended effect, too, if it's not washed out (that's how it does for me).
Don't feel bad about the melatonin. It took me ten years of exhaustion trying to stay awake to put my son to sleep to realize you can fall asleep one of two ways: melatonin or exhaustion. If someone won't produce melatonin naturally, then the choices are supplementation of melatonin or exhaustion. I don't think ten years of being exhausted so much were good for my son's development and he's really blossomed in the years he's been sleeping better. After three years of supplementation, he's going to sleep on a more natural rhythm (as a teenager, yes) and will ask for melatonin if he thinks it's not going to happen.
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09-11-2018, 04:45 AM | #3 | |
Rose Blossom
Married to DH since 2009, Two ginger DS babies 2013/2015, Chihuahua mom, Forever Changed
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 156
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
Threekids—what melatonin did/do you give him? We’ve been using zarbees brand 1mg chewable. Amazon isn’t showing an extended release option for kids. His Peds pulmo said we could give him up to 6mg. He needs sleep. He has grown Phsyically emotionally since we started melatonin a year ago and he was sleeping better. Since he’s ditched the naps though the lack of sleep is building up again.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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09-11-2018, 05:35 AM | #4 |
Administrator
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
I have a few questions before I can ponder a suggestion:
You say you are strict with his diet, play time and sleep time. Can you expand on that? Do you mean very strict exact times, or do you mean you make sure his eats well, has plenty of opportunity to play, etc? Also I'm confused by your what you described - he interrupts play to talk to you. If his need is to talk, to communicate, etc then why would that be a bad thing? It sounds like he has a lot going on in his head and really need to talk about some of it. Beyond that I would suggest first you see your pediatrician. Ask for them to check his thyroid numbers (my son has an autoimmune condition that caused rages untreated). And yes, a therapist might be able to give perspective on all of this. Perhaps he is afraid that if he sleeps, someone else will disappear from his life, even temporarily.
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Elizabeth "Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19 Last edited by CelticJourney; 09-11-2018 at 05:38 AM. |
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09-11-2018, 07:21 AM | #5 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,473
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
I would also try adding magnesium. maybe in the form of a warm Epsom salt bath before bedtime. Since it seems to be anxiety,need for reassurance related, would make a small bed in your room where he can come and knows it if he needs to. Sometimes knowing they have that safety net option is enough to help them go to sleep more easily and stay in their beds more. This is quite common for that age
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09-11-2018, 07:41 AM | #6 |
Rose Garden
Don't mind my faces. They usually don't mean anything.
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Location: Virginia
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
First, that must be so exhausting
There is a lot more going on than just sleep issues Yes, I would take him to my pediatrician and possibly a therapist for the anxiety and aggressive behaviors.
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09-11-2018, 08:00 AM | #7 |
Administrator
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
Yes, I would definitely start with the pediatrician and therapist.
One of my children had issues sleeping and counseling for anxiety along with taking calcium/magnesium at bedtime really helped. There are other health issues that played into it, too, so that was important for me to address as well.
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09-11-2018, 09:04 AM | #8 |
Rose Garden
Why climb a mountain? Because it's there!
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
He could be stuck on fight-or-fight (sympathetic nervous system out of balance with parasympathetic). Kids can be born that way if mom was stressed during pregnancy. They can also get stuck in that mode from stress and trauma, which you alluded too.
Other things sound like developmental delays which could be tied in to the nervous system being very off balance, or at least exacerbated by it. I would look for time-release melatonin as a start. I wouldn't look for a child's version since you know how much you can give him. Just look for time release that's within the dosage limits. Too much melatonin can cause nightmares so I'd start low. Several people have recommended a program called "turn around anxiety." That might be helpful. I wouldn't push school just yet unless he really enjoys it. I had a child who behaved very similarly to what you described, with some differences. It took a look time to figure things out but we're making progress. Expect healing to take time. |
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09-11-2018, 10:42 AM | #9 | ||||
Rose Blossom
Married to DH since 2009, Two ginger DS babies 2013/2015, Chihuahua mom, Forever Changed
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Location: Indiana
Posts: 156
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
Quote:
I don't mind if he wants to talk, we do tons and tons of talking during the day. But if I am trying to make a phone call or help his little brother or quickly accomplish loading the dishes he will persistently (and it feels like emotional aggression to both his dad and I) and relentlessly talk to us to the point of exasperation. A 10minute task ends up taking 25minutes because of the constant interruptions of "look mommy" "watch mommy" or "come here". I don't like having to constantly say "wait a minute" but he is only content and self contained if the tv is on...otherwise he is literally constantly talking. And if we tell him that its time to go pretend on his own or quietly play, he won't. His dad and I can't even have a conversation without him cutting in to ask questions or interrupt. Just typing this out and reading it back to myself, it sounds like we have some cracking down to do behaviorally. But I'm at a loss. I have no idea what to try. He won't leave anybody alone. Now on top of that he won't sleep. We are in a place where we can't afford a counselor unless insurance completely covers it. And the situation with his dad and I was so emotionally ugly I'm afraid to let a counselor in on it. His dad has been home for 6 months now and everything is calm and back to how it was (minus our finances)..I keep hoping he will calm down too. But he hasn't. Does that make sense? ---------- Post added at 01:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 PM ---------- Quote:
---------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 PM ---------- Quote:
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09-11-2018, 10:57 AM | #10 |
Rose Garden
Why thank you, it is naturally blue...
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,278
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
Has he been evaluated for developmental delays or issues like ADHD? It really sounds like he's got some other issues that are major factors in his behavior and sleep.
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09-11-2018, 10:58 AM | #11 |
Rose Trellis
What was I… eh, scrap it. I'm taking a nap.
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
These were my exact thoughts.
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09-11-2018, 11:01 AM | #12 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,473
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
I understand that not wanting him back in there but sometimes knowng they can in their own sleeping bag on floor (not your bed and only if he doesnt wake you up)keeps them from actually doing it.Just for a season. Would also try to think of an activity for him to engage in and focus on before you are going to do something ele like working on a Lego set. Be firm about redirecting him. After I wash the dishes I will talk to you for 10 minutes so I can really listen but until then you need to go do xyor z
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09-11-2018, 11:22 AM | #13 | |||
Rose Blossom
Married to DH since 2009, Two ginger DS babies 2013/2015, Chihuahua mom, Forever Changed
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 156
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
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---------- Post added at 02:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 PM ---------- Quote:
If we had family support on either side all of this would be so much easier to endure perhaps? God has given us a village. I simply second guess myself with FEARS. Where and how would I even begin to explore this? My biggest hitch is the possibility of his behavior being side effects...He is physically delayed from all of the oral and inhaled steroids, and he has spent so much time stuck at home without contact with others beyond occasional church services when he's healthy, that he's emotionally behind too.
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09-11-2018, 11:46 AM | #14 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 30,329
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5 year old stays awake
I wasn’t going to mention it but since you did he sounds just like my son who has autism at that age. The getting up for the day in the middle of the night, the not being able to entertain self, the lack of awareness when someone else is talking or busy, wishing and hoping he would watch tv so my brain could function. And he never let me sleep when he was up either. Mine did start sleeping through the night regularly at 6.5 yo and that continued until about 10 when it got ruined again. We started meds for sleep at that point because melatonin no longer was enough.
If you can give up to 6 mg, maybe try giving him 2-3 chewables as soon as he wakes. Or try the timed release, but I doubt it comes in a chewable. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Last edited by sweetpeasmommy; 09-11-2018 at 11:48 AM. |
09-11-2018, 03:16 PM | #15 | |
Rose Garden
Why climb a mountain? Because it's there!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Selkirk Mountains
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Re: 5 year old stays awake
Quote:
Remind yourself that he's not doing this on purpose. He's trying to meet a need. He doesn't know this needs is atypical and it drives most people nuts. He needs help to learn (over time, probably a long time) how to communicate his needs and learn to meet many of his needs on his own. Get the sleep thing sorted out by whatever kind method your can. Sleeping bag in your room that he can get in if he's silent. Melatonin. Magnesium. Essential oils. Herbs. There are things to try. My experiences with counseling at that young age were that it wasn't worth my time. I wouldn't feel badly that you can't afford it. There's lots of reading and research you can do. Some books to look for at your library The Explosive Child (you didn't mention rage but it still might be helpful) Different by Clarkson The Nemechek Protocol (dietary changes that night help, not too difficult) Aspberger's and level 1 autism w/o cognitive or language delays are pretty much synonymous now. So you can look for info on both. He does sound like it fits but this is just a message board, you'll be a better evaluator than us. ---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 PM ---------- Gah, sorry for all the typos. |
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