Spanking as "discipline."

Abibigail · 05-21-2012, 12:56 PM

I've read somewhere that spanking as a disciplinary tool began as a husband/wife thing before it was used on kids. Any links or other info on this?

dulce de leche · 05-21-2012, 05:42 PM

This link is a good one. It is incredibly creepy to realize that nearly all of the Christian spanking advice seems to come directly from the Spencer Spanking Plan.

Elibellamiah · 05-21-2012, 06:04 PM

I can definately see the similarities between what that plan describes and how a lot of Christian parenting books describe how to spank. However, that is from the early 1900s and spanking as discipline has been around a lot longer than that. I know in the Little House books, which I'm reading to my kids, there is a lot of spanking. I think it's kind of an American culture thing, I'm curious where it came from originally.

tigerlily · 05-21-2012, 06:20 PM

Honestly? I think hitting children to get them to behave as the adult wants has been around forever.

I do think it is more/less appropriate according to a culture's current mores.

katiekind · 05-21-2012, 06:23 PM

Yeah, there was spanking way before that Spencer thing. I posted a quote here a couple years ago from a book I was reading on the making of the King James Bible...it's random that this particular quote was in that book, but the document he quoted mentioned the practice of spanking students on the buttocks. Date of the document was about 1603.

Here's the quote in old English: "I have pepperid thaime as soundlie as ye have done the papists...They fledde me so from argument to argument, without ever ansouring me directlie...as I was forcid at last to saye unto thaime, that if any of thaime hadde bene in a colledge disputing with their skollairs, if any of thaire disciples hadde ansourid thaime in that sorte, thay wolde have fetchid him up in place of a reply & so shoulde the rodde have plyed upon the poore boyes buttokis."

Translation: (talking about a theological dispute): "I have peppered them as soundly as you have done with the Papists (Catholics). They jumped from argument to argument without ever answering me directly so I was forced at last to say to them, that if any of them had been in a college disputing with their scholars, and any of their students had answered them that way, they would have given him up a physical reply in place of a verbal reply, and plyed the rod upon the poor boys' buttocks."

JoEllen · 05-21-2012, 07:38 PM

Spencer Spanking Plan?

If Drew ever tried to do that to me, he'd be sleeping on the couch for the rest of his life!

Abibigail · 05-21-2012, 08:50 PM

Thanks y'all.

ReadingMommy · 05-21-2012, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CityMamaOf2

Spencer Spanking Plan?

If Drew ever tried to do that to me, he'd be sleeping on the couch for the rest of his life!

This is one of those things that's SO beyond my comprehension. The description in the link talked about how it was voluntary and mutually agreed to. Why? I mean, really, WHY(???) would the wife jump on board with that? I agree, it's disturbing to see how similar it is to the spanking of children methodology.

ArmsOfLove · 05-21-2012, 10:28 PM

there were beatings and canings--they were not called "spankings"

then there were paddlings and other practices used on children (and adults)

the key role of Spencer Spanking Plan is the *ritual* that had not been outlined or suggested before--and eventually crept into child discipline books/teahings. The methodology that has been handed down to today's generations is rooted in the Spencer Spanking Plan. Prior to that, there were other ways to hit and beat children, but not the way we have today.

---------- Post added at 09:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReadingMommy

This is one of those things that's SO beyond my comprehension. The description in the link talked about how it was voluntary and mutually agreed to. Why? I mean, really, WHY(???) would the wife jump on board with that? I agree, it's disturbing to see how similar it is to the spanking of children methodology.

it's more common today in some Christian circles--and the awful thing is that if you buy into all of the arguments presented for spanking children, you cannot dispute the ones that advance it to marriage.

---------- Post added at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elibellamiah

I can definately see the similarities between what that plan describes and how a lot of Christian parenting books describe how to spank. However, that is from the early 1900s and spanking as discipline has been around a lot longer than that. I know in the Little House books, which I'm reading to my kids, there is a lot of spanking. I think it's kind of an American culture thing, I'm curious where it came from originally.

Also, these books were written in the early 1930's and forward. This means that the practice had come to be called "spankings"--that doesn't mean they called it that when she was a child and getting "whooped".

ReadingMommy · 05-21-2012, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove

it's more common today in some Christian circles--and the awful thing is that if you buy into all of the arguments presented for spanking children, you cannot dispute the ones that advance it to marriage.

The Spencer thing, from what I could tell, seemed to specify wives as the only ones to receive the spankings, right? So is the idea that the husband is the authority figure and therefore in charge of "helping" the wife better herself? (But the husband doesn't need "discipline" apparently?) This is all part of wifely submission? I still think that the weirdest part of it is that the wife is supposed to agree to it willingly. Of course, in all the kid-spanking plans that is never a component.

ArmsOfLove · 05-21-2012, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReadingMommy

The Spencer thing, from what I could tell, seemed to specify wives as the only ones to receive the spankings, right? So is the idea that the husband is the authority figure and therefore in charge of "helping" the wife better herself? (But the husband doesn't need "discipline" apparently?) This is all part of wifely submission? I still think that the weirdest part of it is that the wife is supposed to agree to it willingly. Of course, in all the kid-spanking plans that is never a component.

I actually believe that in the Spencer Spanking Plan the husband and wife would both give/receive spankings. When applied to the Christian couple with the "male authority" aspect tied to the spanking ideas, it takes on an even more ominous tone.

dulce de leche · 05-22-2012, 04:20 AM

Actually, in all the kid spanking plans I've seen, it is a component. If the child resists in any way (doesn't come immediately and submissively, has a "defiant" attitude, isn't "sweet enough" after the spanking, or tried to sheild themselves or block a blow), then it is grounds for another spanking.

MaryPoppinsIAin't · 05-22-2012, 06:24 AM

That was at once funny (DH was laughing bcs he knew it would never happen), eerie (echos of "go upstairs and prepare for your spanking") and

Best quote: "That, my friends, is where your 'godly' advice on spanking comes from. Good old fashioned S and M."

*twitch* Ew. Just Ew.

katiekind · 05-22-2012, 05:59 PM

I'm not buying it, sorry!

The etymology of the term "spanking" for corporal punishment predates the Spencer Spanking Plan. Of course it still ought to trouble parents that when spanking devolves into a ritual, it wanders onto the same turf as a fetish. Probably a case of whether the chicken comes before the egg or vice versa.

gardenfreshmama · 05-22-2012, 06:10 PM

05-21-2012, 12:56 PM	#1
Abibigail Rose Garden Abby-bigail! Not a-BIB-igail. :) Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Just east of the Mississippi. :) Posts: 7,896	Spanking as "discipline." I've read somewhere that spanking as a disciplinary tool began as a husband/wife thing before it was used on kids. Any links or other info on this? __________________ Abigail...but you can call me Abby Full-time student, baby! part-time Spanish interpreter and Single Mama to E, 12/06, and L, 07/08! Never grow a wishbone, daughter, where your backbone ought to be. --Clementine Paddleford

05-21-2012, 05:42 PM	#2
dulce de leche Climbing Rose Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,407	Re: Spanking as "discipline." This link is a good one. It is incredibly creepy to realize that nearly all of the Christian spanking advice seems to come directly from the Spencer Spanking Plan. __________________ Partaker of the Eternal Fountain of Coffee and Perpetual Provider of Magic Milk My blog:Dulce de leche 13 years with Mi Amado Dd ~ 1/04 Ds ~ 1/06 Dd ~ 6/08 Dd ~ 7/10

05-21-2012, 06:04 PM	#3
Elibellamiah Rose Trellis Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,595	Re: Spanking as "discipline." I can definately see the similarities between what that plan describes and how a lot of Christian parenting books describe how to spank. However, that is from the early 1900s and spanking as discipline has been around a lot longer than that. I know in the Little House books, which I'm reading to my kids, there is a lot of spanking. I think it's kind of an American culture thing, I'm curious where it came from originally. __________________ -Jenny Mom to Elijah (10/05) Isabella (11/07) Jeremiah (1/10) Samuel (5/12) and Micah (1/15)

05-21-2012, 06:20 PM	#4
tigerlily Rose Garden Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Into the sky, all the way out. Posts: 7,377	Re: Spanking as "discipline." Honestly? I think hitting children to get them to behave as the adult wants has been around forever. I do think it is more/less appropriate according to a culture's current mores. __________________ Hi! I'm Robin married 13 years to my best friend mama to two ~ 9 & 6 years old ‎"Don't they teach recreational maths anymore?" ~The Doctor

05-21-2012, 06:23 PM	#5
katiekind Deactivated Peace be with you. Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: the sweet sunny south Posts: 15,346	Re: Spanking as "discipline." Yeah, there was spanking way before that Spencer thing. I posted a quote here a couple years ago from a book I was reading on the making of the King James Bible...it's random that this particular quote was in that book, but the document he quoted mentioned the practice of spanking students on the buttocks. Date of the document was about 1603. Here's the quote in old English: "I have pepperid thaime as soundlie as ye have done the papists...They fledde me so from argument to argument, without ever ansouring me directlie...as I was forcid at last to saye unto thaime, that if any of thaime hadde bene in a colledge disputing with their skollairs, if any of thaire disciples hadde ansourid thaime in that sorte, thay wolde have fetchid him up in place of a reply & so shoulde the rodde have plyed upon the poore boyes buttokis." Translation: (talking about a theological dispute): "I have peppered them as soundly as you have done with the Papists (Catholics). They jumped from argument to argument without ever answering me directly so I was forced at last to say to them, that if any of them had been in a college disputing with their scholars, and any of their students had answered them that way, they would have given him up a physical reply in place of a verbal reply, and plyed the rod upon the poor boys' buttocks." Last edited by katiekind; 05-21-2012 at 06:31 PM.

05-21-2012, 07:38 PM	#6
JoEllen Banned "When life gives you lemons, cut them in half and squirt life in the eye!" - Unknown Join Date: May 2012 Location: New York City, NY Posts: 1,868	Re: Spanking as "discipline." Spencer Spanking Plan? If Drew ever tried to do that to me, he'd be sleeping on the couch for the rest of his life!

05-21-2012, 08:50 PM	#7
Abibigail Rose Garden Abby-bigail! Not a-BIB-igail. :) Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Just east of the Mississippi. :) Posts: 7,896	Re: Spanking as "discipline." Thanks y'all. __________________ Abigail...but you can call me Abby Full-time student, baby! part-time Spanish interpreter and Single Mama to E, 12/06, and L, 07/08! Never grow a wishbone, daughter, where your backbone ought to be. --Clementine Paddleford

05-22-2012, 04:20 AM	#12
dulce de leche Climbing Rose Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,407	Re: Spanking as "discipline." Actually, in all the kid spanking plans I've seen, it is a component. If the child resists in any way (doesn't come immediately and submissively, has a "defiant" attitude, isn't "sweet enough" after the spanking, or tried to sheild themselves or block a blow), then it is grounds for another spanking. __________________ Partaker of the Eternal Fountain of Coffee and Perpetual Provider of Magic Milk My blog:Dulce de leche 13 years with Mi Amado Dd ~ 1/04 Ds ~ 1/06 Dd ~ 6/08 Dd ~ 7/10

05-22-2012, 06:24 AM	#13
MaryPoppinsIAin't Rose Bouquet Join Date: May 2012 Location: Chicago, IL (suburbs) Posts: 625	Re: Spanking as "discipline." That was at once funny (DH was laughing bcs he knew it would never happen), eerie (echos of "go upstairs and prepare for your spanking") and Best quote: "That, my friends, is where your 'godly' advice on spanking comes from. Good old fashioned S and M." twitch Ew. Just Ew. __________________ Three babes under 6, and most of what I know about kids comes from books and babysitting. So if I say something painfully naive, feel free to smile and shake your head as you laugh quietly to yourself. ISFP. I-84, S-60, F-51, P-53 Laura John, 2006 JJ - , '11 Ana - , '14 Geordi - , '17

05-22-2012, 05:59 PM	#14
katiekind Deactivated Peace be with you. Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: the sweet sunny south Posts: 15,346	Re: Spanking as "discipline." I'm not buying it, sorry! The etymology of the term "spanking" for corporal punishment predates the Spencer Spanking Plan. Of course it still ought to trouble parents that when spanking devolves into a ritual, it wanders onto the same turf as a fetish. Probably a case of whether the chicken comes before the egg or vice versa. Last edited by katiekind; 05-22-2012 at 06:06 PM.

05-22-2012, 06:10 PM	#15
gardenfreshmama Rose Garden Through my daughter's eyes... Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 3,530	Re: Spanking as "discipline." __________________ I'm an INFP and I'm going to save the world! Well... maybe tomorrow. After I get some alone time and a cup of coffee... or maybe after ANNABEL (6.25), ASHER (3.5), and EMMELINE (1) are in school... once DEREK gets his culinary school loans paid off...

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