Arguing and answering back in the ExFJ 6 YO

[Psyche]

Help!

I am so tired of Caden acting like he knows everything. Answering back and arguing. He's a determined little guy and won't give up. Here is an example from this morning.

I'm making toast for breakfast with a banana and water.

C "I want a poptart. Gimme a poptart."
Me "Poptarts are a special treat and we are not having any for breakfast today"
C "Poptarts are NOT a special treat. They are a breakfast food. I want one now."
Me "we are not having poptarts for breakfast"
C, persisting "but I want poptarts. I really like poptarts and they're tasty!"
Me "You heard my answer."
C "I want chocolate milk! I hate water for breakfast."
Me, "You can choose chocolate milk or apple juice for lunch. We are having water for breakfast"
C, "NO! I'll choose water for lunch. I'll have apple juice for tomorrow's breakfast. I want chocolate milk"
Me "you heard my answer"
C: storms off crying and wailing.

As best I can figure he has a big combination of a strong J personality wise as well as the 6 YO concrete thinking.

I also peppered in there several times, "You are arguing with me. Stop." then he "debates" what arguing is.

If I give an explanation, he thinks its an opportunity to discuss. If I don't, he melts down.

He acts like he is an adult and I really see it as disrespect, a lack of humbleness. I'm not sure how to handle him. He seems to think he can do what he wants when he wants and that melting down will cause us to relent. It doesn't

Any suggestions?

[TraceMama]

Sounds a lot like my oldest when he was 6 and as he approaches 9

It sounds like you're doing a good job of *not* engaging in the argument. That's key.

I'll be back

[TraceMama]

You've read the 6 year old sticky, right?

As hard as it is, try not to take this personally. He is doing what is developmentally appropriate and by validating him and teaching him boundaries by not engaging, you'll get through it.

I also peppered in there several times, "You are arguing with me. Stop." then he "debates" what arguing is.

I know this discussion very well. It helps me to nip it in the bud and say, "This is not up for discussion." Now, if it results in big feelings because there's a perceived injustice, then I validate that. There's really nothing wrong with him disagreeing with me, having his own opinion and his own sense of fairness. But, I won't engage in a debate with him at that moment. I *will* listen and validate as needed.

If I give an explanation, he thinks its an opportunity to discuss. If I don't, he melts down.

If I'm explaining why I'm doing something as he's used to, then I give it. If he truly needs to understand, I'll offer a reason. That doesn't need to escalate into an argument.

He acts like he is an adult and I really see it as disrespect, a lack of humbleness. I'm not sure how to handle him. He seems to think he can do what he wants when he wants and that melting down will cause us to relent. It doesn't

It is a lack of being humble and modest --- he can't do that yet. He's all that and a bag of chips AND he's *so* much bigger than his siblings and knows a TON compared to them This is the age of complete and total self-absorption and justifiably so --- look at all the stuff he can DO!

It is *not* a preconceived, I'm-going-to-stick-it-to-Mommy-and-show-her-who's boss, manipulative game he's playing. He's being six. You will teach him how to be firm with kindness and what humility looks like, because you don't need to lord your authority over him. You *are* the parent. You don't have to prove it. Just be it.

ETA: I have a few suggestions with the script you gave above if you'd like them

[ruhama]

Oh the frustrating back and forth! I would get into this with kids and cousins I'd babysit and could never quite figure out how to STOP it.

If it helps, he's not being prideful at all! He's in the process of learning how to be an adult and part of that is striving to understand. He needs that desire for information respected - you're training him to be an adult. He wants to understand and doesn't quite get it yet that he can't understand everything (I remember being quite peeved at my parents for not explaining the stock market to me around 6 or 7 - "OF COURSE I CAN UNDERSTAND IT IF YOU EXPLAIN IT!" ).

I'd say don't be afraid of the meltdowns - if he melts down, then let him go calm down in a calm down corner or something. You may need to help him calm down, but let it run its course & stand your ground.

Okay, lots of poptart-specific advice:

After he's calm and in a positive, learning state, I'd see if he was still bothered by *why* he couldn't have a poptart, then introduce a simple health lesson about how sugar (even in food that companies call "breakfast food") hurts our bodies, our brains, and our teeth and how it's your and dad's job to protect his body, brain and teeth. This respects his need for information and shows him you aren't needlessly "thwarting" his happiness, but that you will not let him hurt himself with food. Give him a project after your talk to come up with 5 more things that hurt your health but that companies tell you is "breakfast food" - tell him to point them out on your next shopping trip. Show him how to look up sugar under nutrition facts and give him a per-serving limit to differentiate "candy" from "food."

It would be even more effective if you gave him some choices for "poptart opportunities" and let him pick and plan those days (if it's HIS plan, he's more likely to voluntarily stick to it). Hubby is an INFJ & CANNOT handle insufficient information. He needs information to understand what's expected and why he's asked to do something (lots of explaining in your future! - but you CAN put it off until he's in more of a learning mode rather than an adrenaline-fueled "you're depriving me for no reason!" mode).

I think your wording is fine (and he'll debate anything you say) but instead of "poptarts aren't for breakfast" you could say "poptarts are unhealthy, this is what I'm serving for breakfast. You can have an apple or a banana with it, but it's the only thing for breakfast this morning" You could have a big list of questions to answer later & say (when he starts wanting justifications) - "would you like to put this on the Learning/Discussion List? I don't have time to go into it right now, but if you're really interested, we can talk about it then." Having a set time for this discussion/learning time will also help (daily to every other day work for this age - when they're teens you can do once a week).

There are lots of general ideas in this, but I've applied them to this specific situation. Basically your goal is to kindly but firmly state the boundary (which you've pretty much got down), respectfully offer to explain why when he's calmer or when there's more time (daily discussion/learning time), and helping him plan ways to predict and control what he is able to (to avoid frustration at unpredictable schedules).

Hope that helps!

[Psyche]

Please, Tracy! I welcome the feedback

[Katigre]

I think that you're allowing the argument to drag on far too long and tolerating too much disrespect at the outset. I'd start with requiring a rephrasing of the initial request (which was said in demanding words with a demanding tone) and possibly set up a boundary of 'rudeness and arguing with mom means leaving the room' until he can talk calmly about it.

The conversation went on way too long and resulted in more and more debate and engagement than was necessary IMO.

Also, how does he do with 'accepting your NO' without arguing back? That's something we talk about and practice here .

[TraceMama]

First, I'm learning to blame the list So, if you have your meal plans up on a white board or somewhere, you can say "Today we're having X,Y,Z it says it right there. Maybe we can have poptarts another day." And then maybe schedule it in for a special treat.

I'm going to put an alternative next to yours in a different color. Hope that's okay.

Originally Posted by Psyche

Help!
I'm making toast for breakfast with a banana and water.

C "I want a poptart. Gimme a poptart."
Me "Poptarts are a special treat and we are not having any for breakfast today" Poptarts are not for breakfast today. We're having yummy toast and bananas!" This would eliminate an argument about whether or not poptarts are a special treat.
C "Poptarts are NOT a special treat. They are a breakfast food. I want one now."
Me "we are not having poptarts for breakfast" Some people do eat poptarts for breakfast. We're not. We're eating x,y,z."
C, persisting "but I want poptarts. I really like poptarts and they're tasty!"
Me "You heard my answer." You like poptarts a lot and think they're yummy."
C "I want chocolate milk! I hate water for breakfast."
Me, "You can choose chocolate milk or apple juice for lunch. We are having water for breakfast" Chocolate milk is for lunch. Right now, we're having water"
C, "NO! I'll choose water for lunch. I'll have apple juice for tomorrow's breakfast. I want chocolate milk"
Me "you heard my answer" You really want chocolate milk. You can have it for lunch.
C: storms off crying and wailing.

I would probably also allow him to choose a few things and give him some of the independence he's seeking

"Here on our meal plan it says bananas and toast for breakfast. Would you like water or milk with that?"

"For lunch is says a sandwich and fruit. Would you like apples or oranges?"

Sometimes less info given is better

---------- Post added at 02:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 PM ----------

I agree with Katigre Some of my comments posted above would have been to *end* the conversation rather than extend it.

[MarynMunchkins]

Arguing with my ESFJ child will take half of forever and no one wins. I've learned to either say no and not open it up for discussion or let her convince me (on the things I don't really care about.)

His opening line would have me saying, "It's rude to demand anything of me, and poptarts aren't a breakfast food. No." Any arguing would have him sent to his room until he was ready to be respectful.