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05-16-2012, 08:03 PM | #46 | |
Climbing Rose
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Re: Pet Peeve #5 by my own mom
Quote:
P.S. I also definitely didn't mean for this to come off as snarky, I hope it didn't.
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05-17-2012, 05:39 AM | #47 |
Rose Trellis
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Re: Pet Peeve #5 by my own mom
This is such an interesting discussion. I can see both sides
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05-17-2012, 05:52 AM | #48 | |
Rose Blossom
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Re: Pet Peeve #5 by my own mom
Quote:
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05-17-2012, 06:03 AM | #49 |
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Re: Pet Peeve #5 by my own mom
I don't think it's a good thing to view a request as an order. I think we NEED to teach our children boundaries and let them be allowed to say no to a request but learn to do as we tell them to do. I really think it's good to differentiate between a request and an order. It's not the "please" that makes it a request. It's the way it's state.
"could you move that to the table" (is a request (optional) even without the please) "Please take off your shoes " (is an order even with the polite please) The words "could and can you or would you" all indicate a request. Without those they are an order. Please just makes it more polite, no matter if it is a request or not. What I have learned here on GCM is to us commands for young children and do NOT use requests when it is not optional. Then making sure you help make it happen every time helps them learn it is not optional. Don't start giving optional requests till they are later. At some point (not sure which age) you start teaching the difference between "may I " and "can I" and they begin to understand the difference. I don't want my children to learn to obey every adult that makes a request or gives an order. I think that I really want my DD to learn that she CAN say no to requests from those in authority. For example you said that if a boss asks if you could do something you feel like you have to. Just because you feel like you have to , does not mean you really do. If it is voluntary, such as overtime or extra work you SHOULD be able to say no. Teaching our children good boundaries will help them be able to say no when appropriate. I think I wasn't raised to feel like I could say no and create my own boundaries. I think this is something I want to do differently with my DD. |
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05-17-2012, 12:25 PM | #50 | ||
Rose Bouquet
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Chicago, IL (suburbs)
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Re: Pet Peeve #5 by my own mom
Quote:
Quote:
These two points sail right to the heart of what I was trying to get at. I think it's important for kids to learn and have experience with the difference between "do it now", "anytime today", and "if you're not busy, I would appreciate X". (And all potential variations of the above!) And just as important to learn that in the case of the third, "Sorry, I can't", "I'd really rather not", or just plain "No" are options. I have a SUPER hard time saying no to anyone in a perceived position of authority, because I wasn't allowed to growing up. I'm also a "fixer" type personality, a get it done sort of person. A lot of physical and emotional abuse went on because nobody in my house was allowed to say no to Daddy... = learned response of "authority asks = do it now or you get hurt". Add water & stir, and you have a person with a habit of badly overloading herself, making it work for a month or three, and then one of the spinning plates falls, the domino effect kicks in, I have a total meltdown, then feel guilty for failing people, and the whole vicious cycle starts over again. I don't want my kids to have that problem. I want them to know how to set appropriate boundaries and make them stick. It makes sense that in order to learn that skill, they would need practice in responding to various levels of important on the scale of demand <-------> request. Kids don't *always* have the option of saying no... but sometimes they should. Otherwise how will they learn when saying no is appropriate, even necessary?
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Three babes under 6, and most of what I know about kids comes from books and babysitting. So if I say something painfully naive, feel free to smile and shake your head as you laugh quietly to yourself. ISFP. I-84, S-60, F-51, P-53 Laura John, 2006 JJ - , '11 Ana - , '14 Geordi - , '17 Last edited by MaryPoppinsIAin't; 05-17-2012 at 12:30 PM. Reason: additional point |
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05-17-2012, 12:49 PM | #51 |
Rose Garden
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Re: Pet Peeve #5 by my own mom
Am I reading correctly that "please" indicates a request to children?
I don't ask, but I do say please. "feet on the floor, please" am I making it sound optional?
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05-17-2012, 01:03 PM | #52 |
Administrator
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Re: Pet Peeve #5 by my own mom
I think that sounds good. Do they obey? That would determine if they are perceiving it as optional.
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05-17-2012, 01:05 PM | #53 |
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Re: Pet Peeve #5 by my own mom
IMO Please does not indicate a request. Please is just being polite. Can you, will you, makes it a request. Please put your feet on the floor does not indicate any option. It is politely tell the person to do so. Can you put your feet on the floor please, indicates a request because it is asking a question if the child can or is willing to.
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05-17-2012, 02:23 PM | #54 |
Rose Blossom
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Re: Pet Peeve #5 by my own mom
Yeah, I have this problem too even though my parents were pretty easygoing. In fact when I go back to work when the next school year starts, I'm going to be facing two tasks from my boss that I want to say no to. The problem is that I really don't know how optional those tasks are. So I have to weigh the potential consequences of saying no, and figure out the best way to say it in a way that does not damage my relationship with my boss, and decide if there's room for negotiation (like saying yes to one to get a break on the other)... knowing how and when and whether to say no is complicated stuff no matter how old you are.
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05-17-2012, 03:12 PM | #55 |
Rose Garden
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest
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Re: Pet Peeve #5 by my own mom
Wow. This thread is totally foreign to me. It never even occurred to me that "please" would mean "only if you want to, this request is optional."
If I'm walking onto a bus and the conductor says, "tickets, please" I don't assume that means tickets are optional. If a police officer says, "Please step back, Maam" instead of "Step back NOW!" that is just being polite and professional, not making it optional. If I say "Please stop touching me" to a the person pushing me from behind in line, that is not a request that I'm giving them the option not to honor. I do have to watch out that I don't phrase requests by saying "Do you want to . . . " or "Would you like to . . . " which used to be a bad habit of mine (it's something my mother said, and the answer was never optional, LOL). Even before I had kids, it was something I had to work through with my husband. But I can't even wrap my mind around politeness negating an instruction. If I say "Please come here now" it's the same thing as saying "Come here now" only more polite. I don't expect my kids to always obey unquestioningly in all situations no matter how I word it, but I don't see "please" as meaning "this is optional" at all. ---------- Post added at 10:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 PM ---------- I just asked my kids if "Please come here" means the same thing as "Come here" to them, or if they view it differently. They all said the please doesn't make it optional; it's just being polite. ---------- Post added at 10:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:10 PM ---------- But my kids do know that if they are in the middle of something and do it politely, they have the option to discuss it whether I said "Come here" or "Please come here." I.e. in either case they might reply, "I'm going to the bathroom/washing my hands/getting a drink of water/whatever--be there in a minute" or "Can I finish x first?"
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05-17-2012, 03:19 PM | #56 |
Climbing Rose
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Re: Pet Peeve #5 by my own mom
I think I agree with the last few posters that "please" is just being polite, not necessary making things optional. More important to me is whether or not my request is a statement or a question; ie., if I ask "would you do such and such?" then "no" is a valid answer. If I say "please do such and such" then, well it's not a question
Posted via Mobile Device Last edited by lucie; 05-17-2012 at 03:23 PM. |
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05-17-2012, 03:24 PM | #57 |
Rose Garden
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Re: Pet Peeve #5 by my own mom
as much as any 4 and 2 year old listen to anything. When they feel like it Which is why we love and frequently use the five steps in our house.
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I'm Megan (ENFP, DYT Type 1)
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05-17-2012, 03:28 PM | #58 | |
Rose Garden
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Re: Pet Peeve #5 by my own mom
Quote:
To make a blanket statement that please always just means polite just can't be made because some kids DO take it as optional/request.
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05-17-2012, 03:57 PM | #59 |
Rose Garden
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Re: Pet Peeve #5 by my own mom
But isn't that where it's our job as parents to explain that "please" doesn't mean "optional"? If we don't do that at some point, what will happen when they grow up and the police officer says "Please move off the street" and they say, "No thanks"?
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Purple_Kangaroo Seeking truth and understanding. I have 4 precious children: A (born Feb 2001), M (June 2002), E (Aug 2005) and N (Dec 2013). AMEN! |
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05-17-2012, 04:04 PM | #60 |
Climbing Rose
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Re: Pet Peeve #5 by my own mom
Ok saying that just because we don't use it in our house means they won't ever learn to move for a police officer is faulty. It's like when someone against homeschooling says, "they'll never learn to stand in line if they don't go to school." It's faulty logic. My children understand that a police officer an authority figure that they need to listen to. They are just children, yet they understand this concept, even though, at our house we don't use please unless it's optional.
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