My teeth are remineralizing.

[Stiina]

Originally Posted by milkdud

I have spent a lot of time on tooth healing forums bc I have 1 kin with severe decay, and 1 kid with moderate. I have never heard of anyone getting worse on a grain free diet. What lands people on those groups in crisis, is the consumption of sugar and flour, and not sticking to a nutrient dense diet. There are repeatedly stories of people who halt their decay, add sugar or whatnot back in, while keeping up with their supplements, and the decay starts back up.

I'm not discounting your experience Lisa, it just boggles me. In the 3y I've been healing tooth decay, you're the first person I've heard of that healed it without dietary change. How much decay did your kids and you have?

I read a fascinating e book about what Lisa is talking about. I'd participate in a thread too but I think she should start it cause she's the one doing it. I'm just starting to listen to my body: paying attention to when I'm cold and the pale color of my pee... and eating salt and fat and carbs (not grains though) and sweets (not refined though...can't bring myself to do that yet).
Then when I feel warm I do notice my pee is darkish and that's when I eat more fruit and I feel thirsty.
Very interesting to tune into your body and figure out what part of the day to eat different foods.

[HomeWithMyBabies]

I went through the thread since it's so old, I'm not sure if I missed any of my old posts in here but since it's bumped I'll update...ds1's decaying baby teeth never got to the point where our holisitc dentist felt they should be filled until this past January. It was a different dentist at the same practice, so I don't know how much a difference of opinion factored into the recommendation. It was years ago that a conventional dentist told us they needed to be filled immediately or the decay would spread and risk the adult teeth. Anyway, now they are loose so there is no point in filling them anyway. The adult teeth underneath look great on the x ray, they were not affected.Such a relief.

[milkdud]

I absolutely believe in listening to the body and that we all have different metabolic needs. I feel good eating very high fat and gobs of salt. Carbs generally make me tank, but not this spring. I was just curious about the correlation of how a low grain diet but keeping sugars could remineralize teeth, and heal active decay. That's why I wondered how much decay Lisa and her family had. Maybe it would work better on sm cavities?

[Soliloquy]

Originally Posted by milkdud

I have spent a lot of time on tooth healing forums bc I have 1 kin with severe decay, and 1 kid with moderate. I have never heard of anyone getting worse on a grain free diet. What lands people on those groups in crisis, is the consumption of sugar and flour, and not sticking to a nutrient dense diet. There are repeatedly stories of people who halt their decay, add sugar or whatnot back in, while keeping up with their supplements, and the decay starts back up.

I'm not discounting your experience Lisa, it just boggles me. In the 3y I've been healing tooth decay, you're the first person I've heard of that healed it without dietary change. How much decay did your kids and you have?

Not tons of decay. One dc had a cavity a few years back. We went on GAPS (for reasons other than teeth but certainly expected our teeth to improve) and he started developing more and more cavities as time went on even though that "isn't supposed to happen." My own teeth got a lot less shiny and white and started becoming semi-transparent. Some got loose, my gums got bad, too. Pretty much the whole family had visible deterioration. My dh developed gingivitis for the first time in his life, his teeth lost their shine and became dull and less white.

We ARE doing dietary change, it's just that we are eating plenty of carbs-- fruit, rice, potatoes, gf bread, cane sugar, maple syrup. Avoiding PUFAs as much as possible without being neurotic about it. We are gf for my dh but if we were to eat white flour I would make certain it wasn't enriched or bromated and mix it with spelt to make sourdough.

Believe me, milkdud, I would have agreed with you 100% a year ago. I bought Rami's book 5 years ago because my teeth were awful. A year ago is when I first started reading stories of people who got worse on a grain-free diet and I was thoroughly confused. I never would have fully believed it if it hadn't happened to us, too.

There are blogs and forums out there where people discuss coming off a grain free diet because after a certain period of time, their issues worsened or, like me, new health issues started. I'm in a fb group where we discus the research of Ray Peat and others and discuss our own progress. I never posted that much in the GAPS support group I was in about how much we improved after going off. In the past I'd seen that kind of posting wasn't very welcome. And I certainly wasn't interested in debating the philosophies or pulling anyone away from a protocol that was working for them.

Sarah Pope @ The Healthy Home Economist has written about why she will never be grain free.

Emily @ Butter Believer got much worse on GAPS and switched to the same idea that I'm trying.

Paul Jaminet (an astro physicist & economist) @ The Perfect Health Diet wrote a great book and has a fascinating and scholarly blog. He & his wife (a vascular biologist @ Harvard & Sloan-Kettering) became ill on a grain free, starch free diet. The only grain they added was white rice but they use rice syrup, too. www.perfecthealthdiet.com Paul Jaminet is extremely kind and helpful and answers questions on his very busy blog. He really helped me when my brain fog on GAPS was so bad I could barely read through the info on his site.

There are a few other well-known bloggers in the wapf world that have written about this, too, but I can't think of them atm. (The names of their blogs all sound too much alike. Nourished this and healthy that. ) One just published an eBook called "Nourished Metabolism" that describes what I am trying, although I have only skimmed it so far. I have a few others to finish before I get to that one. The much hated, much loved Matt Stone was hard-core WAPF paleo for years before bottoming out and discovering this. He blogs and writes about this topic constantly and had one specifically about teeth. If I have time, I will link to it later.

Then you see someone like Sisson who has been paleo long-term and appears to be vibrantly healthy.

It is confusing. Which is why, for now, rather than try to fit this into a b&w box, I'm leaving behind what had failed me and trying what seems to be working.


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[Soliloquy]

Originally Posted by milkdud

Carbs generally make me tank, but not this spring.

The theory I've read to explain this is that while on a low carb diet, your body is stressed (cold hands and feet being a common symptom). The adrenals have to over compensate to keep you going. When you do finally eat some carbs, the adrenals take a much needed rest. If the carb intake continues reliably, after the period of rest and repair, energy levels sky rocket as you run on glucose, not ketones and cortisol and adrenaline. I'm about 3 weeks in and definitely experiencing (and loving) the energy.



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[Stiina]

The Nourished Metabolism e book is from empowered sustenance, I think. I was eyeing it up but I haven't taken the plunge yet.

[Caecelia]

Just popping in here (this showed up in tapayalk's newest feeds.) to and ask LisaM--have you started a thread on RRaRFing yet? I read Matt Stone's Diet Recovery 2 book a few weeks back and a lot of what he says really makes a lot of sense. So far I've only focused on just drinking to thirst (i realized I was drinking waaay too much water in general) and eating more. Would love to talk about it more.


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[Hopetobe]

LisaM, I'd like to hear more, please start a thread on it

[Soliloquy]

There is a thread in Weight Management called "Diet Recovery by Matt Stone." It's getting long already ... It's a good thread. Join in!

We could start a new one in NH2 if there is interest in discussing it aside from weight/ED issues.

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[milkdud]

Thanks for typing all that and sharing, Lisa. No need to link; I'll google and read more. Do you know who I am irl? We're fb friends and I have 4 boys. If so, will you add me to the other group? I'll be honest and say I'm not a Matt stone fan, but I'm interested in learning more.

Idk if I agree my adrenals were overworking. I supplemented with isocort at therapeutic dose using thyroid madness temp guidelines to find dose, along with homeopathic support from my practitioner. Who knows?

[Soliloquy]

Originally Posted by milkdud

Thanks for typing all that and sharing, Lisa. No need to link; I'll google and read more. Do you know who I am irl? We're fb friends and I have 4 boys. If so, will you add me to the other group? I'll be honest and say I'm not a Matt stone fan, but I'm interested in learning more.

Idk if I agree my adrenals were overworking. I supplemented with isocort at therapeutic dose using thyroid madness temp guidelines to find dose, along with homeopathic support from my practitioner. Who knows?

No, I cannot keep track of who is who unless I know you IRL or your avi pics are identical. Shoot me a fb message and I"ll add you.

[tempus vernum]

Originally Posted by milkdud

I'm not discounting your experience Lisa, it just boggles me. In the 3y I've been healing tooth decay, you're the first person I've heard of that healed it without dietary change. How much decay did your kids and you have?

Hello - I'm person #2 - GAPs healed our guts a lot We are a true success story My dd healed 19 of her 22 food allergies (and I actually think she minimized the other 3).

BUT our teeth got HORRID. Mine got yellow for the first time as an adult. My dd1 hasn't ever had a cavity but hers started getting kind of yellow as well. My dd1's are finally whitened up. At one point my ds' teeth turned brown, I thought it was from antibiotics (he had pneumonia and was hospitlized and on antibiotics over a month of our GAPS journey Crazy I know). The dentist deep cleaned them to fix them but they turned brown again. We are still working on them but they are WAY better than when on GAPs . It's hard to know what truly caused his dental issues because he is a cancer survivor who was on chemo over 2.5 years so it's possible that destroyed his enamel. Lots of kids on his protocol come out with horrifying damage and just keep needing things fixed. Nothing helps my ds' teeth.

For the rest of us, I thought the yellow was "detox" or "die off" or all the other GAPs buzz words. Once it was suggested the fuzz was from yeast die off. All I know is that when we stopped GAPs we started improving our teeth again.

We also do sugar and starch although we stick to about 90% whole foods, the other 10% is "whatever we want"

[Stiina]

Hey, whoa...that fuzz!!! I used to have it ALL.THE.TIME. I am just thinking now, that I don't get it very often at all. Even if I forget to brush my teeth, they just feel gritty or slimy, but not fuzzy.

I never thought of it in relation to food before. I ate a typical, but everything-made-from-scratch, SAD diet before. Now we're like...whole foods (grassfed meat, lots of veggies and fruit, honey, maple syrup, coconut) and almost no grain except corn.

[Soliloquy]

Originally Posted by Stiina

The Nourished Metabolism e book is from empowered sustenance, I think. I was eyeing it up but I haven't taken the plunge yet.

I just found it, it's from The Nourished Life. But several bloggers are reviewing it and giving away copies right now.

[Stiina]

Oh. That must have been it. It was on ES and there was a code to get X percent off.