Need help dealing with Church Nursery

[daina]

Hi Everyone,
I'm *new* here but I've been dying to present my situation here for a few weeks now- to soundboard with you all and hear your advice and experience!

My husband and I have a son who is 16 months old. We moved to FL in January of 2016, from a small church in AZ with only 4 children to a much bigger church with a VERY busy nursery(about 12-15 kids under 2 every sunday). In Arizona, I was always with my baby in church, and if he fussed, I would take him out of the service and nurse him. Here at our new church, it is expected that we will leave our children in the nursery and attend the services(Sunday AM, Sunday PM, Wednesday PM and Sunday School).

Ever since we got here, I have had a very hard time leaving my son in the nursery. He just cries, and they page me. Often when I pick him up, he is crying harder than I ever see him cry. There HAVE been days where he has lasted an hour or even the whole service and done well, but then if we missed church for a week due to illness, he would just throw a fit when we would attend again.

I have gotten on the nursery volunteer schedule, but there are about 20 women who cycle through the schedule so I am only officially on the schedule one day a month. Really though, I or my husband just end up in the nursery about every service, where we hold our son and help out the other workers. Whenever I or my husband are in the nursery with him, he has a great time. He loves to play and he explores, but he likes to make sure that we are still in the room, or he gets insecure.

On the rare occassions where we have been able to leave our DS, I am told that he is OK while he is being held but if a worker has to put him down to help another baby he kind of has a breakdown. I do hold him a lot, but i have heard in my church comments being made to other moms that they have to stop holding their babies so much because in the nursery they are spoiled and always want to be held.

The Pastor's wife has told me several times that I need to just leave him and let him cry it out. They tried a few Sundays ago to let him cry it out(against my instruction to page me if he cried more than a couple minutes) and my son ended up making all the other babies in the nursery cry and trying to climb up the cribs walls while screaming and throwing a fit.... and then they eventually paged me.

I have spent a lot of time in the nursery this last year, and I have seen with two other toddlers how a similar thing was handled. Both kids were children of church elders(the youth pastor's son, and a deacon's daughter). They would cry and fuss a lot for their mothers, until they are eventually punished for their crying. With the little boy, when he is really crying for his mother, his father comes and takes him out and spanks him with a spoon, and he returns wimpering and seems to be alright.

So... my real question is, what is the right thing to do here? By constantly being in the nursery so my son does not need to separate from me, am I just being permissive? Have I done wrong by getting him "used" to the idea that if he cries in the nursery, mommy comes? My husband and I have kind of surrendered to always taking turns being in the nursery with our son, but I wonder sometimes if this is the right thing to do(especially when one of the moms or the pastors wife makes a comment). All of the other babies are mostly always OK with playing in the nursery without their moms.... My baby is just. not.

[FlyingBlueKiwi]

What drew you to this church? Do you feel it is a good fit for your family?

[daina]

Well we wanted to find a faithful independent baptist church that preaches from the KJV. When we attended for the first time, we were very happy to see all the babies and young families, and that it is a very active church with a mom's group. I am honestly a bit overwhelmed by all the services, as I feel like we are always going to church, but my husband is feeling called into ministry and he feels like this is where God has called us. We will likely be moving to another state in 6 months, so that will be a good time to assess what kind of church we will be looking for next.

[Singingmom]

Oh my, this brings back memories! I was also intimidated by the church nursery situation when I had my babies.

I am happy to say that while leaving your baby to cry in the nursery may be expected, it is absolutely NOT required. You and your husband are the ones who have the right and the responsibility to do what you feel is best for your family and your child on Sunday mornings. If that means taking turns in the nursery or walking the halls with him, that is perfectly okay.

You might miss sitting through each sermon with your husband for a season, but if I can encourage you from where I'm sitting, I don't for a minute regret the time I spent with my babies on Sunday mornings. I do wish I'd had a church like the one we go to now that truly welcomes babies and families. But if you really like your church in other ways, you and your dh can stand up for yourselves gracefully against the pressure to leave your baby, and have confidence that what you're doing is good and right for your little family.

[esperanza]

I've been in a very similar boat. My son is almost 3.5, and just yesterday freaked out, throwing blocks (thank goodness he didn't hit anyone!), sobbing, because he couldn't see me. I had stepped into the kitchenette off the nursery, and he thought I had left him in there alone. I think we've been able to leave him less than 5 times for the whole nursery time alone. So yes, every week either my dh or I are down in the nursery. (I'm the coordinator now, which makes it a little less awkward). He is not ready for us to leave him, and we certainly don't want to make coming to church a traumatic experience. We have a rule that if children cry more than 10-15 minutes, we page the parents. We aren't comfortable leaving him to cry at all, so we spend a lot of time in the nursery. It's hard, and I definitely miss being able to hear the sermon, but it's worth it.

That is a lot of time you're expected to be at church. Can you dh go alone to some services? That's a lot of time for a little one to be in the nursery, and I can imagine the evening services are close to bedtime, making him tired and even more upset to be separated from you.

I keep telling myself it's just a season, and we'll miss this season someday soon!

[Aerynne]

to you. That is such a hard situation!

I wouldn't leave a child in the nursery if they would let my baby cry against my wishes- I would either not take him or take him and stay with him. And the pastor's wife making a decision about your child for you against your wishes is completely unacceptable.

I personally would probably try to take him into the service. It's "expected" that you take him to the nursery but if it's not absolutely required I wouldn't. If it is absolutely required then I would skip the service and stay with him in the nursery.

Our church has a service for families followed by classes for adults and children with a nursery for the toddlers. But we don't send our toddlers to nursery- we just take them to the adult classes with us and take them out if they are loud. We have only been criticized for it on a few occasions (maybe people talk about us behind our backs, but at least to our faces only a few times).

You said your dh feels called to be there- how do you feel? Does your dh know how you feel about the nursery stuff? How does he feel about the nursery stuff?

[daina]

My husband knows how I feel about this, and he is in support and on board with me in taking turns staying in the nursery. There is a phrase I have heard spoken once or twice about "putting your children before God" or "making an idol of your children"... I do not know how this would actually look, but sometimes if I miss church because it would just be too hard for DS, or if I look at how the other mothers are serving in children's ministries while I am taking care of my attached baby, I feel guilty about it. The seed of those phrases got planted somewhere, and cause me to doubt myself.

I seem to go through this every few months where I get settled in my conviction to just go into the nursery with DS, and I have aa peace about it- but then the going gets HARD when you have to spend that much time in the nursery. And then when I hear or observe other mothers viewpoints on the subject, I doubt myself and get all confused and unsettled again. I just need to hear the affirmation and KNOW that its ok for me to keep my son with me, and that i'm not "spoiling" him, which is how many of the mothers in my church might see it.

The pastor's wife means well. I know that she just wants me to be able to listen to the sermons and get fed spiritually. She's a matter-of-fact woman who says whats on her mind, and she's heard me grumble sometimes about staying with my son, or wanting to be able to leave him, so she is just trying to do what she things is helpful. I might just have to talk with her one-on-one about the issue.

[Aerynne]

I'm sorry that so many conservative churches seem to have teachings that are so mean to children. I don't know why that is. I am blessed that mine does not, but I've heard of it a lot!

I always end up feeling like "If I'm just going to sit in the nursery, why am I even here? Might as well go home." But I still go to my almost 4-year-old's class with him every single week. I know I am a help there, though. And I'm working with him on being without me for a minute "Mama's going to get the snacks. Be right back." If he asks to come I'll take him but sometimes he doesn't. I look for lots of opportunities to run out just to get him used to me being gone for one quick thing but my son is almost 4, which is very different. And if he had any objection to it, I wouldn't leave.

[Maedchen]

I'm sorry you are going through this! I knew before you stated that this was an IBC. :/ Sadly, this seems to be pretty much the norm.

You stated that the pastor's wife is just blunt............had you sought her advice? If not, then be blunt and tell her that "God knew what He was doing in placing your child in your care."

If you feel led to stay, stay. If you feel like you want to take him into church, the back pew is a great place to sit and you can step out. If they tell you this is not ok, then you know this is not the place for you family.

Jesus said to not deny the children and to bring them to Him. (I didn't leave my kids if I saw green discharge on the kid underneath the sign that said, do not bring sick children.............that always made me take a trip to the ER at 2am. 2 days after exposure and I would be home for weeks getting my 2 well. I wish I had been bolder way back then instead of learning the hard way.)

IBC can 'church' you to death with services. When do you have time for family? I know not everyone agrees with me, but God did not institute church until well after He had established families. (IBC if you are not in the hospital or in the morgue, you have no excuse to miss a service..........Sound familiar? well, this isn't scriptural.)

You and your husband pray on how best to raise your babies and go with His leading.

[MariJo7]

Originally Posted by daina

My husband knows how I feel about this, and he is in support and on board with me in taking turns staying in the nursery. There is a phrase I have heard spoken once or twice about "putting your children before God" or "making an idol of your children"... I do not know how this would actually look, but sometimes if I miss church because it would just be too hard for DS, or if I look at how the other mothers are serving in children's ministries while I am taking care of my attached baby, I feel guilty about it. The seed of those phrases got planted somewhere, and cause me to doubt myself.

I seem to go through this every few months where I get settled in my conviction to just go into the nursery with DS, and I have aa peace about it- but then the going gets HARD when you have to spend that much time in the nursery. And then when I hear or observe other mothers viewpoints on the subject, I doubt myself and get all confused and unsettled again. I just need to hear the affirmation and KNOW that its ok for me to keep my son with me, and that i'm not "spoiling" him, which is how many of the mothers in my church might see it.

The pastor's wife means well. I know that she just wants me to be able to listen to the sermons and get fed spiritually. She's a matter-of-fact woman who says whats on her mind, and she's heard me grumble sometimes about staying with my son, or wanting to be able to leave him, so she is just trying to do what she things is helpful. I might just have to talk with her one-on-one about the issue.

I have been in a very similar church as this for many years. Your story brought back a lot of memories. If I had the chance to overdo those years I would not go ti this church in the first place.

The good thing in your situation is that your DH is on board with you. That will help you to "swim against the stream" and to be yourself in the midst of the pressure.

Your son is still very little and your previous church was very different. It is all new for him. He is not spoiled and you are not treating him as an idol. He was just used to a very different type of church going. It must be a frightening experience to suddenly be in a very big nursery with many, many babies and workers he does not know. He needs time to get used to it. He needs time to get to know the other nursery workers and to learn to trust them.
Frightening experiences can not always be totally avoided, but if he knows you are not going to abandon him he might learn to appreciate this new nursery and get used to it and even start to enjoy it.

I'd go with him as often as needed and take turns with DH. And I'd try to help him to make friends. When he learns to know the other workers better and he learns to trust them he will probably accept them as safe adults and it will be easier for him to stay in the nursery. But this will take time and you need give it to him. A 16mo is still very little.

There are things a very young child can not yet understand. They live in the here and now. When mommy is gone they think she is gone. They have not yet a concept for future or "soon". And children are different in this.

Perhaps you could invite some of the nursery workers to your home so you could make new friends and your son could learn to know them better. When he has learned that Auntie Helen is nice and Auntie Jenny is funny and Auntie Mary always tells nice stories he probably starts to see them as his friends too and will start to like the nursery better.

But it is completely normal that a 16mo does not trust adults (s)he does not know. A little child should not trust strange adults. That would be dangerous. Little kids have a period when they get to know who are their "own people" with whom they belong and who are "strange people". That is for their own safety. It is to keep them with their "own people". A little child who trusts any adult and goes without protest with anyone who just takes him/her or follows anyone who asks is not safe.

You have nothing to feel guilty about. You are doing the right thing. You are the only mom your DS has. You and DH are his safe adults and you will help him to see the other adults that are safe. Disappearing from the scene does not help, though. Building relationships does help.

Phrases like "putting your child before God" or "making your child an idol" are often said because of it is convenient for the pastors and other church workers to have a church machinery that goes like clockwork. Everything has its time and place. Everything happens on its time and place. Everything is predictable, can be counted and can be expressed in neat figures. Everything is scheduled and the schedules are always kept. This type of church is the dream of certain types of pastors in certain types of "ministries". But that's not how life goes and that's not how it should be.

[CelticJourney]

Originally Posted by daina

....There is a phrase I have heard spoken once or twice about "putting your children before God" or "making an idol of your children"... I do not know how this would actually look, but sometimes if I miss church because it would just be too hard for DS, or if I look at how the other mothers are serving in children's ministries while I am taking care of my attached baby, I feel guilty about it. .....

What you are doing right now is putting the expectations of this group of people before your son, not your son before God. There is no where in scripture that says we must worship or learn separate from our children. In addition, you son is learning that church is a very bad place to be. A scary place where he is unhappy. That's not good.

[Little Forest]

Sorry you are dealing with this. Seems like that church culture has underlying beliefs/expectations that go againsts compatible with gentle and attachment parenting and you are caught in the middle and it makes is tricky to decide what to do.

If I may offer you a change in perspective,
1) you are your DS's mum and in charge of him and decisions to do with him (along with your DH)
2) nursery is an aid you are free to choose to use or not, and you have no obligation to use it if it is not helpful; along with church services in general

I do not even have a nursery to use where I go to church. I have spent 12 years not spending a lot of time inside during church due to sorting out young children over that time span. It can be frustrating and exasperating, but after so many years I am seeing light at the end of the tunnel and am able to spend more time and pay more attention now.

I personally believe in an obligation to attend church on Sundays unless there is a very serious reason to prevent it, and I also believe that if I have to take small children out of the service for part of it due to nursing or toileting or keeping them out when they were too noisy, I believe it still counts as attending.

I hope you are able to find a way to make it work well for your family and do not feel pressured to go against your God given motherly instincts!

[MariJo7]

Originally Posted by Little Forest

I personally believe in an obligation to attend church on Sundays unless there is a very serious reason to prevent it, and I also believe that if I have to take small children out of the service for part of it due to nursing or toileting or keeping them out when they were too noisy, I believe it still counts as attending.

Yes. When you attend the church but spend time in the nursery room, you still attend the church. The nursery room belongs to the church just as much as the little kids belong to the congregation. Spending time in the nursery room is a way to attend a church service. You are there, you develop relationships with the other nursery workers, you help there and you try to make going to church a positive experience to your little boy.

I have several times visited a church where there was a special room on the balcony for parents with nursing babies and noisy toddlers. The balcony had a thick glass wall so we were able to see everything that was going on in the church hall but they were not able to hear us. And we were able to listen to the sermon through a loudspeaker. It worked very nice. All parents watched their own kids, the babies nursed and the toddlers played peacefully and no one had to cry for their mom because she was there. The parents sang along and listened to the sermon and if the kids were a little loud we did the loudspeaker a little bit louder also . That was perfect! But when I told I liked that and I would like such a system in our church also I was told that it was no good, the parents had to be "really present", or "participate in the service" and stuff like that .

[Victorious]

But it is completely normal that a 16mo does not trust adults (s)he does not know. A little child should not trust strange adults. That would be dangerous. Little kids have a period when they get to know who are their "own people" with whom they belong and who are "strange people". That is for their own safety. It is to keep them with their "own people". A little child who trusts any adult and goes without protest with anyone who just takes him/her or follows anyone who asks is not safe.

Going to reiterate this. 16 month olds *should* protest leaving their parents. It is not sin nature, it is a developmental stage; one that God created in babies to help them stay safe.

One tip that my current church does that I wish other churches I've attended would have thought of is keeping an umbrella stroller in the nursery and taking upset kiddos for a walk. My youngest has often been pushed around in one, which helps prevent the "I'm being held by a stranger" anxiety and he often falls asleep-because as I've learned, church is almost always during nap time.

[RoseOfGrace]

I have a little boy who doesn't like to be separated from me either. The way I evaluate it is: what are his real needs? This particular child is sensitive and needs security. He needs to know he is safe and his needs will be met. It is not spoiling him to make sure his emotional and physical needs are met. It is not elevating my children to godhood to meet their natural, God-given needs as little children. When he is ready to be more independent, he will show me. In fact, under certain circumstances, he does go off and play on his own and I don't need to be in the room. But, this happens when there are people he knows and is comfortable around. He knows he is safe. Otherwise, he feels the need to have me there. It's that simple.

I find that having a couple pre-made responses to these kinds of comments helps. For example, when someone asks, "Do you hold him ALL the time or something?" I can respond with a quizzical look (a look that says, "that's an odd question and really none of your business") and say, "No, he clearly just doesn't feel comfortable in this space yet and needs extra reassurance. Once he gets to know you and feels safe, he'll be his normal rambunctious self." For people who make comments about how I need time away from my children and should leave my kids so I can be with other adults at church, I might say something like, "Yes, I look forward to when I can do that more. Right now, it is my sacred duty to make sure my children's emotional needs are met appropriately. Every child is different, huh?" and smile so they feel compelled to agree and then drop it. Things like, "Yeah, our transition lately has been hard on him, so he needs extra reassurance until he finds his new normal." or "I look forward to when he gets to know the nursery workers better so he feels safer and can play like he normally does." gets the point across that HE is not the problem. Your child's needs are not an inconvenience, a problem, a result of bad parenting, an attempt to manipulate you, or anything else these well meaning people mistakenly believe. Here you have an opportunity to plant seeds to open their eyes to the truth: that it is our sacred duty as parents to evaluate, understand, and meet our children's needs at their various ages and stages. This might be inconvenient to some, but it is truth.

Also, I just want to throw out there that all parents have to carefully evaluate their priority lists. For example, we carefully consider how to rank our relationships with God, marriage, personal needs, children's needs, church, household duties, children's education, work/business, and so forth. Sometimes, like when a baby is a newborn, the newborn's needs rise to very high on the list. Young children still need a lot of time and attention and priorities have to be adjusted accordingly. It is completely appropriate to evaluate your church commitments and make sure they are in the proper place in your priority line up. I have personally seen the damage in families who put the church before their children, who went every time the doors were open regardless of anything else. It has affected several of my family members in heartbreaking ways. We are held accountable before God for how we raise our children. That gives me courage when I face this controversy. Ultimately, the only judgement I want to care about is God's. I want him to be able to say, "Well done, good and faithful servant. You were a good steward of the precious lives I entrusted to you."

Edit: I find that taking my two little ones into the nursery in their double stroller gives my toddler the safety net he needs to make the transition to nursery most of the time. He doesn't get out of the stroller until he is ready (I unbuckle him, ask him if he wants to get out, but don't take him out unless assents and he can climb out whenever he wants). Sometimes, he chooses to stay in the stroller the whole time. Other times he stays in there for a while and then gets out and plays and is just fine. Giving him some control over the situation and letting him warm up first seems to really help.