Need help dealing with Church Nursery

[Redeemed]

I will send you a PM about how I spent nine years in WOF. It was awful.

There are many good things about Baptist churches, whether IFB or Southern Baptist (how I was raised and where I was saved). I've taken this approach to the parenting issue in church in general is that they're my children, and the Lord Jesus is the only one I have to answer to for how I raise them - period.

[daina]

Originally Posted by MegMarch

As for how to discipline, I find it helpful to look at two things. 1. What I want for a relationship with my children in the long term. 2. How I believe people are supposed to be treated.

1. I want a relationship that in time ends up with us as equals, sisters in Christ, friends even. That doesn't mean I am permissive. It means I need to know my children as people though. And to understand the difference between developmental stages and personal choices. A toddler saying "no!" is a lot different than a teen saying the same As those "nos" are different, so will my responses to them be different. Being willing to step out of "society says you need to behave, so I will make you do it" and into "what is going on for YOU, how can our family work together" is important. And with the long term goals in mind, I can step out of the intensity of moments of frustration and gain perspective that helps me handle things with more calmness and, I hope, wisdom.

2. I don't think any person should be hurt in order to learn something, for example. I think God calls us to love our neighbors, even the ones sitting on our laps. When we look at how God asks and shows us to treat others, it is easier to see how to treat our children. The Bible doesn't have a lot of parenting specific information but there is a ton in there on interpersonal relationships

Thank you. DH and I are just being challenged right now to determine if certain behaviors are emotional developmental needs or just assertiveness and rebellion. For instance, our 16mo has been very assertive against going in his stroller lately... When we need to walk him down for a nap, we have to wrestle him into the stroller sometimes(this can also happen with the carseat)... How do I know that him throwing a fit because he doesn't want to be in the stroller is different than him throwing a fit because he wants to be with mommy in the church service? Or throwing a fit because he wants mommy but needs to be with daddy for a 30 minutes?

[CelticJourney]

Originally Posted by daina

Thank you. DH and I are just being challenged right now to determine if certain behaviors are emotional developmental needs or just assertiveness and rebellion. For instance, our 16mo has been very assertive against going in his stroller lately... When we need to walk him down for a nap, we have to wrestle him into the stroller sometimes(this can also happen with the carseat)... How do I know that him throwing a fit because he doesn't want to be in the stroller is different than him throwing a fit because he wants to be with mommy in the church service? Or throwing a fit because he wants mommy but needs to be with daddy for a 30 minutes?

There is a lot to unpack there.

First, to believe that a baby can be in rebellion is to give them WAY to much cognative credit. It means they understand what you want and to deliberately act against it for power.

Second, maybe he doesn't want to be in the stroller. Maybe there is a reason you haven't figured out yet. When my oldest was this age, she had on new shoes and was pulling at the shoes. If I had taken that as rebellion, we'd never have taken off the shoes and found the paper stuffed in the toes that was so painful.

Third, ask youself 'am I doing this because it is necessary or because it is habit'. the carseat is a given necessity, but can you take a step back and find a different solution to the nap issue. Maybe it's time to add something new to your 'tool box' of mama tricks and see if there is another way.

Fourth, get on his level on understanding and process the church issue. 1 hour out of 168 he is left in an unfamilar building with unfamilar people. He is perhaps lonely and scared so he cries out for the only people he knows will protect him. That's not rebellion, that is communication and it should be encouraged. The babies in the old, aweful orphanages stop crying because they come to understand no one will come to help them. Don't teach your son that you can't be relied upon to listen to him.

[Maedchen]

I was born into a SBC family. We went every time that we could if my dad was not working when we were babies. (Momma didn't drive) When we got older, the preacher picked me and my older sister up for Wed.night. My mother mostly had to stay home with my baby sister who needed to sleep before we would have gotten home. We stayed in a SBC until I was 14. From then until I was 50, we were IBC.

One thing I can say, if you are in a Baptist church,you can work yourself to death. LOL I used to laugh and say, you move your letter or get saved and before you get out the door, you are either in bus ministry or another job.

The one thing I never understood was the visiting and especially at night time to people that had visited or had never been. (My husband was navy, so we moved a lot... He also worked at night at some stations and I didn't like 2 men showing up at my door knocking when he was out to sea or catching me already in my pjs, but I had to be polite and show hospitality while feeling completely ill at ease with two strange men at my door.)

God gives gifts to all in 1 Cor. 12 we are told that none are better and all require diff. talents and not everybody gets the same gifts, or all of the gifts.

Yet, again, the knocking on doors and exhorting is supposed to be an everybody job........... Not everybody has that gift.


It will be an uphill struggle for your gentle approach. It will be an uphill battle for you not to be teaching, visiting, missing services, not having to let everyone know why you were not at church at a certain time due to illness, or just too tired.

With that said, I am not saying that IBC are not saved, or good people. They are just legalistic and expect everyone to be a square peg in a square hole..... It makes it hard for those that are different 'shaped' people. (I was caught up in some of this thought process when I was younger, but it is very hard and lonely for young mothers.) There were many times when I struggled to get out the door with 3 stair step aged babies to only spend my time in the nursery or to take my low immune system child to get sick by the kid with the snotty nose that had to be there even though it was not according to rules. I would wonder, why do I push so hard. It was to not be 'judged'.


If I had to do the entire 'nursery' years over again, I would not put my kiddos in the nursery. If my church was adamant about no babies in church service, I would find another church. (this is not a slight on good nursery workers) I just feel like my kids would be with me at church times.

[MudPies]

I too was raised baptist (SBC mainly, some IFB) and I felt like you years ago. I wrestled for years, and finally after much study I came up with a summary of the gospel that I strive to live by. Its very simple but works for me. 2 words. Grace and Love. I ask is this love? Is this full of the Grace of Jesus? When looking for church communities I ask do I see Love and Grace? Or do I see punishment,rules, and expectations I do not find Biblical?

More than anything I want my kids growing up seeing the Grace and Love of our Lord modeled at church and at home.

[Saoirse]

I truly regret leaving my son in "sunday school" to scream because "he needs to learn to be here and that's he's fine if he cries." I think it did lasting harm that took a long time to heal. And anyone who thinks that god wants kids screaming like that is just not a kind person.

[Soliloquy]

I'm a mother of five children. Not a single one has ever been in a church nursery. . It's an option. I chose not to utilize it.

A tired toddler not wanting to be buckled in a stroller is just that. A tired toddler. Maybe he'd rather cuddle or nurse. Maybe he's over-tired and you need to start his naptime routine earlier.

Rebellion? No. You are HIS ENTIRE WORLD.

[Kiara.I]

Originally Posted by daina

Thank you. DH and I are just being challenged right now to determine if certain behaviors are emotional developmental needs or just assertiveness and rebellion. For instance, our 16mo has been very assertive against going in his stroller lately... When we need to walk him down for a nap, we have to wrestle him into the stroller sometimes(this can also happen with the carseat)... How do I know that him throwing a fit because he doesn't want to be in the stroller is different than him throwing a fit because he wants to be with mommy in the church service? Or throwing a fit because he wants mommy but needs to be with daddy for a 30 minutes?

Great news! You do NOT have to determine whether the behaviours are developmental or rebellion. You truly are not called to discern what is in your son's heart. You are called to follow Jesus.

So...how did Jesus deal with his disciples when they were rebellious and assertive? Because, they WERE! There are several recorded instances of it. He didn't punish them. He spoke to them and told them what was right.

But you can do that whether it's development or rebellion. (Let's leave aside the issue that I don't believe a 16-month-old screaming is the kind of "rebellion" that you need to worry about anyway...)

So the good news we have for you is FREEDOM. Freedom to know that you do not need to try to distinguish rebellion from developmental. You just don't need to.

If you think he needs to be in his stroller for naps (tried a back carrier? They always worked really well for our family...) then by all means. But also maybe try some other options instead.

[daina]

I want to thank you all for your comments. I have read each one several times and feel very encouraged, uplifted and LOVED by the responses and insights you have given. I did not expect the thread to turn into a talk about the type of church I am attending(honestly, I did not at all even consider that when I made the post ) your comments have really turned on a light in my heart and opened me up to see some things about how the particular church environment i am in has been effecting me without me even realizing it. From this point, I will continue to study about GBD, and extend that grace to my child and the other children at our church(I love holding the babies at church-esp the ones whose mother's think that too much cuddles will spoil a child). The comments about how to relate to my baby and love him like God does have seriously already shifted something in me in how I am responding to him and meeting his needs. Also, thank you for the encouragement in how to relate to other mother's who may have different views. I pray that I can extend grace rather than judgement to some of the parents who are living from a punitive worldview, and still have friendships with them without thinking I am superior or inferior. As far as being in an IBC goes, that is something my husband and I are really going to seek the Lord's guidance on. Until He points us where/if to move, I pray we can continue to love God's people here while I sort out what MY PERSONAL convictions are vs. what convictions/yokes may be being laid upon us by men.

Thank you also for the suggestions about my question relating to a toddler being manipulative or not. It's helped me to see that you are right-a baby cannot be manipulative! They just have felt needs, and sometimes need to be redirected. I agree with you that crying to not go into the stroller just probably means he wants to walk, nurse or be worn. More so I was just trying to get clarity because some things are not an option(like the car seat), but at least now I really see and understand that the church nursery IS optional and I no longer feel a pressure to have to leave my son there. Moreover I now see that the pressure I have been feeling is a pressure to please and fulfill the expectations of man rather than to just seek Jesus and to walk in love and grace so I can be pleasing to Him.

Another thing I've realize is that a major problem/difficulty of our nursery is the way that it is run wherein 30-40(!!!) people are put on the schedule each month so that no one has to miss too much service. I didn't realize before that this makes things very confusing for a child to drop him off with unfamiliar people.

I also agree with the several comments about all the sickies that get passed around the nursery... My baby has gotten more colds than necessary(we all have a little strep right now from church... Last month it was a stomach bug :/) because apparently "doing life together " means all our kids get sick together

God bless you all

[ArmsOfLove]

Originally Posted by daina

We've been talking a lot about discipline and he thinks I'm being rebellious against the faith because every "good godly christian" family we know spanks/spanked their kids.

I have 5 children.

19

16

14

twin 11 yo's.

I *literally* wrote the book on GBD (I developed it and the books Biblical Parenting and Grace-Based Living are my books where I share about it)

My young adults and teenagers and even my tweens are absolute pleasures. They were never spanked. They were raised without punishments. They had their issues, and we worked hard addressing them, because parenting well is hard work. And we are all reaping the rewards

If you move in circles where everyone is punitive then you will get the impression that everyone is punitive. If you move in circles where people aren't punitive, or, like me, you hear the stories of all of the adults who are working through their punitive backgrounds, you begin too see how twisted punishments are. They make an idol of parents and adult convenience. They require the least among us to serve the greatest -- the OPPOSITE of Jesus' message.

I'm a big believer in the purpose of parenting being to help our children become who God created them to be without doing damage to them or distracting them from their purpose. I've tried to identify their strengths, and the counterbalancing weakness, and help them develop in and understand their strengths and develop skills and boundaries for their weaknesses. And as my children have become adults and are moving out into the world I'm so proud of them. They don't have all the work to figure out who they are and what their purpose is that I have had to do.

[Aerynne]

What you are exposed to is very influential for sure. I have found I can't even read any punitive stuff, even to see how awful it is, because even if I think "this is awful" the whole time, it still makes me be harsher with my kids. I think there is a huge importance in choosing the people you are around because they will shape you, in ways you expect and ways you don't, even if you don't want them to. That's one reason I like it here. I'm so glad you're finding a benefit here, too.

[rjy9343]

I started lurking here when my daughter was a newborn. I joined when she was around five or six months old. I learned some awesome things right out of the gate that have shaped how I parent her and her brother.
The first is even if it is sin, it isn't my job to deal with it. No, really. No one died and made me the Holy Spirit who does deal with sin. Nor did I suddenly get the ability to see inside the hearts and minds of anyone, so I really don't need to know since it's God's job to deal with sin. It's my job to deal with the actions, be they sin or immaturity.
My daughter hated her car seat and stroller with every fiber of her intense being. The only thing she hated more than that was me leaving her. I now know that a lot of that came from her anxiety and autism. But I didn't know it at the time and did my best to meet her needs. I left a church because of her needs and haven't regretted it once.
I also learned that it's okay to be my children's' friend. A friend doesn't do whatever you want, a friend tells you the truth in love and tries to prevent you from making mistakes. Sounds remarkably like being a mother to me.
I also learned that you can fill your husband's toolbox with other ways to handle your very determined toddler and while spanking never leaves the toolbox, it's never really the right tool either.
I also learned that if Papa is in the nursery or otherwise coddles the kids, it's very different than if I do it. I am a neurotic mother that needs to cut the cord already. My husband is a loving father who is caring for his baby. If he will stay with your son, have him do it. No one will say a word to him or you.
I also had a ton of huge realizations. One of the biggest is that only reason we as Christians are even willing to consider hitting someone smaller than us is because people we trust have told us this is what God said to do. If we didn't have people saying God said do it or they will come to a bad end on this side of the grave and the next, we would be horrified by this. We would be doing everything in our power to make this illegal and fighting it with everything we have.
Now that my oldest is six, I don't regret being gentle with her at all. She is a very loving and sweet little girl who really does bring joy with her wherever she goes.
My son is the same age as yours and I can tell you that gentle parenting isn't the reason he is like this. My daughter wouldn't have anything to do with anyone other than me, my husband, my mother and my nephew. That was it, if you weren't one of those people, she didn't want you to so much as look at her. My son is parented even more gently than his sister and is the complete opposite. He likes to see new people and has no problem with me leaving him in the nursery. He waves to me and goes to play when I leave and runs to me when I come back for him. No crying out or leaving him alone to learn to be independent.

[CelticJourney]

That reception of dads vs moms at the nursery door is interesting and frustrating, but definitely something you can use to your advantage.

[daina]

Hi Ya'll. Thank you for all of your advice. I wanted to give an update, since the last few weeks have been a bumpy ride


As far as the nursery goes, my DH is now in full support with me on staying with our son in the nursery when he is not comfortable. We have had two times where he has stayed without us for more than 20 minutes, but other than that, we take turns for the services and stay with him the whole time, despite the comments that we get sometimes.

Overall, however, I am just so torn about gentle discipline vs. spanking. Really, to be honest, my husband is not on board with the idea of not spanking. He has "reviewed" all the rod verses with me- over and over again- kind of like, 'don't you get it now?'

I have found one other mother at my church who did AP and whose kids did not like the nursery, and she has been very supportive. But unfortunately, when i go to her for advice, she recommends me to read To Train Up A Child, and tells me that she would spank her kids younger than one if they needed a "safety spank" to teach them about dangerous things.. and that she also continued to spank her daughter beyond age 14.

Additionally, my husband has begun bible college at a small local Independent Baptist College. Part of me is really nervous and fearful about it because of the pressure that is put on the children and families of Pastors and those who are in ministry to have 'submissive children' (1 Tim 3:4).

Overall, I admit, within me there's a deep fear that if I were to not spank my kids, they will just end up in rebellion, or not saved, or just totally messed up because of my 'disobedience to scripture.'

I have read other interpretations of the rod verses, but my husband read these too and pointed out to me that they're bad exegesis/hermenuetics and I shouldn't trust people who say you shouldn't spank.

Has anyone else struggled with these fears or issues? Any advice?

Thank you. Hugs

[twoplustwo]

Ok, there are many avenues of reply here. Since I am short on time Ill skip the ones regarding God being one of grace and mercy and any lack of evidence. I'll just go straight to our little anecdotal story.

Dh was spanked growing up. He was very rebellious. He always weighed what he wanted to do versus getting spanked (as in, if the spanking was worth the rebellion, he would rebel). He left the church as a teen and did not return until . .

I was saved. By then we were married, so I was an adult. I was not spanked as a child and did not grow up in a Christian home, yet I was able to find salvation anyway.

There is no spanking = salvation or spanking = lack of rebellion.

There is so much more to say, but I need to go, and there are plenty of wiser moms than me who will cover it all I am sure.