Spitting... and how to keep my mouth shut?!

[wildswede]

It was a hard day today, I had to go find the bus my son now rides and get him off because they couldn't go anywhere due to his behavior (out of his seat, kicking the doors, screaming, setting off alarms, etc). I got him in the car and he proceeded to spit on me from the back seat for about ten miles before I lost it and told him to pick a house he liked and I'd drop him off... I feel awful, I've jokingly agreed to find him a new home when he went through an "I hate you, I don't want you to be my mom anymore" phase--- and he freaked out, I learned not to even joke with him, especially when he's escalated, I should have already known better of course, it wasn't okay. And, it wasn't okay today. How do you get yourself to just shut up if you've got nothing nice to say at that moment? I was tempted to pull over and step out of the car for a few minutes, but on the back roads we were on there wasn't really a safe place to do that. I apologized to him for what I said and asked his forgiveness, but is that even enough? How can keep it from happening again? I thought I was doing good to not have started yelling like a maniac--- which is what I want to do when I'm being spit on.

[CelticJourney]

Originally Posted by wildswede

.... How can keep it from happening again? I thought I was doing good to not have started yelling like a maniac--- which is what I want to do when I'm being spit on.

Have his doctor's suggested anything that might help. It sounds like this child is miserable and trapped. My suggestion is to get professional help to deal with his issues. This is NOT a discipline issue, it's a needs issue.

[wildswede]

He has a follow up from his November evaluations in March... his regular pediatrician had surgery and that was soonest he could get in for a follow up. I've been looking for a counselor--- with no luck. Left messages with a local naturopathic physician--- no response. He has had three separate referrals to neurotherapeutics AND I've called and left messages--- no response. We've done applied kinesiology which is helpful but he gets so frustrated and disappointed if something negative happens he then refuses to keep doing it. Had some success with essential oils--- same thing, he had three incredible days, then a set back and refused to use them anymore. I've been giving him l-theanine and seen some positive changes. He's had a pretty positive transition to a self-contained classroom and last week was wonderful, even though he had a few challenges he was able to focus on the positive parts of the day and was getting off the bus happy. The afternoon bus was a bit of a challenge, he was getting out of his seat, I put new fidgets in his backpack, a high interest book, and the driver has some fun books as well and Friday he rocked it. Today, however, there was a sub bus driver. His teacher said he had a great day at school though.

[Bea423]

I deleted my comment because it is clear I cannot accurately explain or express the heart of what I was trying to share. I hope OP is blessed in her search for solutions.

[Aerynne]

It definitely sounds much deeper than a discipline issue and I'm glad you're working on addressing that.

That being said, I will not drive a car with children who are misbehaving. My first choice is to make them get out, but if he would run away or run into traffic then you can get out and tell him you'll get back in and start driving when he will behave. If you drive this route often and there isn't a place to pull over, maybe you can look on the map to find places where you could make a turn onto a different road and pull over somewhere. Or if there is a different route that does have places to pull over, take that one. If you can pull over but can't get out, I would just pull over and sit there and tell him you won't drive until he stops. As long as he has nothing to do in the car (no electronics, books, or toys) I would think that would help, too, even though it wouldn't give you the quiet time.

And please don't be too hard on yourself. I have said something similar to a kid once. I think I would go completely out of my skin if my child spit on me for several miles.

[deena]

In regards to what you said: Everyone screws up. You apologized and asked for forgiveness. Sometimes that's the best a person can do. Don't feel guilty.

In regards to your son, perhaps it will be encouraging to know that my first born went through a stage just like that when he was four. I remember pulling over on the highway because he crawled out of his car seat and was physically assaulting me. I was at my whits end. His dad was in jail and I was really struggling as a single mom so that probably contributed but at the same time, I think I was a really good mom and it wasn't that bad so I don't think we can completely blame it on environment- I think it was partly just a stage. Anyway, he turned out to be THE BEST kid ever. I swear, after that stage it's been smooth sailing. He's 18 now and everyone I've ever met says, "Brandon? What a great kid" He was one of the top wrestlers in the state and whenever I talk to someone they say how much they like and admire him. He has nice friends. No drugs or alcohol. He's nice to his little brothers and sister. I am so proud to be able to say, "that's my son!" Your son is not doomed to a life of trouble.

[CelticJourney]

Originally Posted by Bea423

.....A woman at our fellowship was told by her Dr that her thyroid was so bad they weren't sure how much longer she had if she didn't take certain medication. She addressed the issues spiritually and was completely healed, her doctors were shocked. .....

As a mother whose son has a serious thyroid issue, I am VERY concerned that using medication would be presented in a way that suggests medical help is secondary and avoiding spiritual issues. We live in a fallen world and illness and physical imperfections are part of that world and need to be addressed. If I had addressed my son's issues as discipline or spiritual issues rather than the fact that his immune system was waging war on his little body and causing physical reactions to such things as adrenal imbalance, etc, he not only would probably have died, but if he didn't, he would have taken on a level of guilt for not being able to change, placing a spiritual millstone around his small neck.

I absolutely believe that spiritual and emotional issues must be part of the equation because we are spiritual being AND because they do affect our physical well being. That being said, once you pass a certain point, you simply can't ignore the need to address physical issues because by doing so, most people, but small children especially, simply can't spare the mental energy to process anything outside of survival. From reading many other threads by this poster, I absolutely believe her son is surviving and without some outside help, he will continue in that mode until something changes.

[Dovenoir]

I agree with other posters. That aggressive spitting behavior would have me pull over and stand outside the car while the storm rages inside it. Child would be handed a paper towel and told to clean himself up after it was over. Unless we were headed to something that couldn't be rescheduled, the event would be cancelled.

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[Soliloquy]

. I believe it's really important not to let your anger get that far. Long, long before you are so angry you are saying things you do not mean is the time to act. (Getting spit on for ten minutes could make any of us livid.)

At the very first unacceptable thing, such as spitting, you need intervene. ArmsOfLove explained in a thread years ago that when we lose our temper, it's usually because we've ignored our boundaries being crossed. When we address the first little step over the line we are much more able to be calm and rational. By the time we've let lots of little things happen, we feel so violated that we're angry and irrational.

[ShiriChayim]

To Bea:

Originally Posted by Bea423

Edited to add: they don't just address physical illnesses but also emotional/mental struggles. Even learning disabilities. I hope I wasn't hurtful in implying there is something wrong. You mentioned Drs appointments and his behavior sounds emotional and deeper than just a discipline thing.

I believe that you have the best of intentions at heart when you say this, and because I believe that I'm going to give you a very honest and vulnerable response. There really is no way to say those words, without them being hurtful. I'm speaking now as the mother of two children on the spectrum. It's at best just unhelpful, but at worst those words are devastating. Please believe me that we do pray and seek God's will continually, for the best for our children. We beg Him for wisdom and insight and to direct our path to find the best solutions to help our child. We spend our days working and fighting with everything we have, and yet it's not enough. It's never enough. Because nothing we do changes that fact that our child's brain just works differently. So when we're weary and hurting and desperately seeking answers-to have someone say to us, "Have you considered that this might be a spiritual problem" is like a punch in our gut (and you might be surprised how often it happens). Because deep down inside we're terrified that this really is our fault-we caused this. We're not a good enough parent, a good enough Christian, a strong enough person. And someone has just told us that they're pretty sure that's all true.

I don't think you meant to say any of that. I truly believe that you've read this book and feel like you've found this hope and wanted to share it. We could have this whole discussion about spiritual answers to physical ailments, but I don't want to derail wildswede's thread. It would probably make a really good spin-off though. I just wanted to share with you the perspective of a parent dealing with deeper issues.

Wildswede:

Wow, I'm so sorry you had such a rough morning. I would say I agree with others about pulling over if you cannot safely drive. I'm concerned for you the current situation means that if he's having a bad morning, you need to drive him to school, which is quite a distance iirc. Have you spoken with his team at the new school about safe traveling for him? Having you drop everything to come and get him is just not an acceptable long term solution.

In terms of dealing with the moment: I know how hard it is, in the middle of crisis, to manage those overwhelming feelings of frustration and weariness that has you come out with the worst possible thing-and then beating yourself up over it. I've learned to find ways to distance myself emotionally from the situation by taking deep breaths and intentionally shutting the behavior out for a moment. I also concentrate hard on remembering holding this angry out of control child in my arms as a baby and the love I felt and my determination to be the best mom I could be for him. If I can respond from a place of, "This is the mom he needs me to be," rather than from my own feelings and perspectives things go a lot better. It takes tremendous mental effort, but usually the situation calms much quicker when I do it that way.

[Aerynne]

Originally Posted by ShiriChayim

Wildswede:

Wow, I'm so sorry you had such a rough morning. I would say I agree with others about pulling over if you cannot safely drive. I'm concerned for you the current situation means that if he's having a bad morning, you need to drive him to school, which is quite a distance iirc. Have you spoken with his team at the new school about safe traveling for him? Having you drop everything to come and get him is just not an acceptable long term solution.

This is interesting thinking here- I believe they are required to provide transportation, are they not? So they will have to find something that works with his particular issues. Maybe if he's getting up and things they will have to find a way to restrain him.

You didn't mention his age- how old is he?

One thing that helps my patience is looking at baby pictures of my kids. Would it help to tape a cute little newborn or other baby picture of him, or a few, on the dash or something? You could glance down at it/them and breathe. Might be worth a try just for your calm.

Does he have any food allergies? That could totally be gluten, dairy, or especially a food dye sensitivity.

[mamacat]

Is there a way for them to let you know ahead if there is to be a change like a substitute driver?Sounds like that may have been the trigger? could he verbalize what upset him about the bus ride ? sounds like all was very well until that part If it was a sub may not have been someone who is familiar at all with SN kids or even just seeing that unfamiliar face may have thrown him off. Agree that he probably needed a cooling down and comforting time before the car ride. I think just letting him know that you know you he was having a hard time and you said something you didnt mean when YOU were having a hard time h eart Also have to wonder if he thought he was on the wrong bus and was just trying to get back off.Might be helpful to tell him the bus number and to let him know that if there is a different driver he can ask if it is bus 123 or something

[wildswede]

He is six, yes, the district provides transportation. In the mornings he's on a regular size bus with just one other kiddo who goes to the same school, they let off kids at the school I work at and he gets on with the other child. The morning driver reports no issues whatsoever. He had trouble in the afternoon the first week, after getting some direct instruction on what it looks like to ride the bus and the driver showing him the books she has for them to look at he did great. Yesterday, however, there was a substitute driver... today he did great again with the regular driver.
And, you are very right, my losing my temper generally means I've been trying to figure out how to react and waited too long.

[mamacat]

Yep had a feeling the thing was triggered by that different driver.So can maybe work on things to give him tools for when that happens and sk him about what upsets him about having a different driver?

[Bea423]

Originally Posted by CelticJourney

As a mother whose son has a serious thyroid issue, I am VERY concerned that using medication would be presented in a way that suggests medical help is secondary and avoiding spiritual issues. We live in a fallen world and illness and physical imperfections are part of that world and need to be addressed. If I had addressed my son's issues as discipline or spiritual issues rather than the fact that his immune system was waging war on his little body and causing physical reactions to such things as adrenal imbalance, etc, he not only would probably have died, but if he didn't, he would have taken on a level of guilt for not being able to change, placing a spiritual millstone around his small neck.

I absolutely believe that spiritual and emotional issues must be part of the equation because we are spiritual being AND because they do affect our physical well being. That being said, once you pass a certain point, you simply can't ignore the need to address physical issues because by doing so, most people, but small children especially, simply can't spare the mental energy to process anything outside of survival. From reading many other threads by this poster, I absolutely believe her son is surviving and without some outside help, he will continue in that mode until something changes.

I agree with you. It is not my suggestion at all that someone would reject sound wisdom and council when dealing with serious illness. but that they also seek out possibility of something that can help spiritually.

Deleted the rest of my comment.