Gentle Christian Mothers Community
 
Random Quotes from Wise Mamas

~* Please help keep GCM free by using our
Amazon.com affiliate link. Thank you! *~


Go Back   Gentle Christian Mothers Community > Blessing our Family > The Cookbook (Recipes, Cooking, & Food Prep) *Public* > Canning / Preserving *Public*
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-18-2014, 04:59 PM   #1
Soliloquy
Rose Garden
 
Why climb a mountain? Because it's there!
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Selkirk Mountains
Posts: 52,860
Soliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Canning newbie, help me buy my equipment

I have a glass top electric cooktop. (I miss my gas stove from 3 houses ago.)

I plan to can lots of thimble berry jam this year. Next year I hope to do tomatoes, too.

I was looking at the canners at the store and they come in a couple of sizes. Does the canner have to fit the element on my cooktop? I have the most annoying cooktop. It has 5 elements but only one of them is large and it isn't as large as an average stove.

Anything else I need?

Which kind of pectin do you buy for jam and why?

Last edited by Soliloquy; 05-19-2014 at 11:34 AM.
Soliloquy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2014, 08:09 PM   #2
ReedleBeetle
Rose Garden
I support GCM!
 
Hangin' on for dear life!
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WV, I'm a mountain momma
Posts: 25,579
ReedleBeetle has a reputation beyond reputeReedleBeetle has a reputation beyond reputeReedleBeetle has a reputation beyond reputeReedleBeetle has a reputation beyond reputeReedleBeetle has a reputation beyond reputeReedleBeetle has a reputation beyond reputeReedleBeetle has a reputation beyond reputeReedleBeetle has a reputation beyond reputeReedleBeetle has a reputation beyond reputeReedleBeetle has a reputation beyond reputeReedleBeetle has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canning newbie, help me buy my equipment

I don't know anything about the glass cook tops. With gas, I know the size doesn't have to match. With what you are canning, you can water bath, so you can buy a MUCH cheaper canner.

Tomatoes are easier to can than jam. Neither are "hard" though.

I have used gelatin instead of pectin when making jam and I have used the Ball pectin. Just because it was there, easy to find.

I would just go ahead and get the ball canning kit that has the jar tongs, the air thingy, the magnetic lid whatchmadoodaddy, and the jar funnel. All helpful.

Jars, lids, rings and you are good to go!
__________________
RiAnnon
infj



Single Momma to LegoCraft May 2005
ReedleBeetle is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ReedleBeetle For This Useful Post:
Beth1231 (06-23-2014), Soliloquy (05-19-2014)
Old 05-18-2014, 08:26 PM   #3
Punkie
Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,092
Punkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canning newbie, help me buy my equipment

If the recipe needs pectin, we always use the Pomona's Pectin, and it works great.

I second the suggestion for the basic Ball Canning Kit. It has everything you need to get started, and is so easy.
__________________
GCM Admin and Moderator in Questions About the Message Board, Drawing Closer, Let's Talk, Weight Management, In the News, and Electronics.

Homeschooling mom to 4, certified herbalist, homesteader, and overly ambitious crafter
Punkie is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Punkie For This Useful Post:
Beth1231 (06-23-2014), Soliloquy (05-19-2014)
Old 05-18-2014, 09:30 PM   #4
RiverRock
Moderator
 
Leaning, leaning, leaning on the everlasting arms.
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In green pastures
Posts: 9,754
RiverRock has a reputation beyond reputeRiverRock has a reputation beyond reputeRiverRock has a reputation beyond reputeRiverRock has a reputation beyond reputeRiverRock has a reputation beyond reputeRiverRock has a reputation beyond reputeRiverRock has a reputation beyond reputeRiverRock has a reputation beyond reputeRiverRock has a reputation beyond reputeRiverRock has a reputation beyond reputeRiverRock has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canning newbie, help me buy my equipment

I've only used a pressure canner for tomatoes. I know that books recommend canning jams and jellies, but I just pour the hot mixture into sterilized and hot jars. If you are starting with jam, you might not need a canner. I prefer a long-boil method that doesn't use pectin or as much sugar. Underripe fruit naturally has pectin in it, so adding a bit to your ripe fruit usually works well. Using pectin is much quicker (almost too quick for me). Bernardin has a couple of good recipe books with more details about how to use pectin or long-boil methods to make jam.
__________________
RiverRock, mom to a
24 year old diamond,
22 year old granite,
19 year old pearl, and
16 year old tiger eye.
Married for 25 years to a rugged boulder
and resting together on the one true Rock.
RiverRock is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to RiverRock For This Useful Post:
Beth1231 (06-23-2014), Soliloquy (05-19-2014)
Old 05-18-2014, 11:23 PM   #5
Maedchen
Rose Trellis
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,482
Maedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canning newbie, help me buy my equipment

I have a glass top stove also. From all that I have read, you can not can on the glass top. It will cause it to crack because it gets too hot.

Since I can't afford a new stove, I go to my daughter's house to run the canner. (I am really, really tempted to try and get a small one I can use in my basement to can or take out on the patio and can there. (I have seen the one on pintrest that is gas topped and runs off of a propane heater.

Also, if you have a fairly large family or lots of things to can, go ahead and purchase the larger canner that can hold 2 stacks of jars. It will cut down on how many runs you have to do on the stove.
Maedchen is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Maedchen For This Useful Post:
Beth1231 (06-23-2014), ReedleBeetle (05-19-2014), Soliloquy (05-19-2014), Sparrow (05-19-2014)
Old 05-19-2014, 07:07 AM   #6
Punkie
Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,092
Punkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond reputePunkie has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canning newbie, help me buy my equipment

Here's a helpful page I just found: http://www.pickyourown.org/cannings4glasstop.htm I like this website for other canning info.
__________________
GCM Admin and Moderator in Questions About the Message Board, Drawing Closer, Let's Talk, Weight Management, In the News, and Electronics.

Homeschooling mom to 4, certified herbalist, homesteader, and overly ambitious crafter
Punkie is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Punkie For This Useful Post:
Beth1231 (06-23-2014), mellifera (05-19-2014), ReedleBeetle (05-19-2014), Soliloquy (05-19-2014)
Old 05-19-2014, 08:19 AM   #7
mellifera
Rose Trellis
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,590
mellifera has a reputation beyond reputemellifera has a reputation beyond reputemellifera has a reputation beyond reputemellifera has a reputation beyond reputemellifera has a reputation beyond reputemellifera has a reputation beyond reputemellifera has a reputation beyond reputemellifera has a reputation beyond reputemellifera has a reputation beyond reputemellifera has a reputation beyond reputemellifera has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canning newbie, help me buy my equipment

I've only been brave enough to can jelly on my glass-top stove. If I were going to get into canning things that require more vigorous boiling, I would get a stand-alone electric burner.
mellifera is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mellifera For This Useful Post:
Soliloquy (05-19-2014)
Old 05-19-2014, 10:06 AM   #8
houseforjoy
Rose Garden
 
trying to live like olaf "this is the best day of my life!... and quite possibly the last!"
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: in the sunshine with my own personal flurry
Posts: 9,563
houseforjoy has a reputation beyond reputehouseforjoy has a reputation beyond reputehouseforjoy has a reputation beyond reputehouseforjoy has a reputation beyond reputehouseforjoy has a reputation beyond reputehouseforjoy has a reputation beyond reputehouseforjoy has a reputation beyond reputehouseforjoy has a reputation beyond reputehouseforjoy has a reputation beyond reputehouseforjoy has a reputation beyond reputehouseforjoy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canning newbie, help me buy my equipment

i gave up on canning and just switched to freezing

freezer jams are super easy (and you can do raw jam) and for tomatoes i just take the stem and core out and throw them seeds, skin, and all into our nutri bullet thing and puree them whole and uncooked. then i can pull a bag out and use it for sauce, chilli, spag, soup whatever. i will freeze a few bags cut up and seeds removed for things like chili where you want chuncks, but mostly i just use purred.

the only thing you can't really freeze is salsa. at least i haven't found a good way to do it yet.
__________________
Amanda, ENFJ Mommy to my bounty: ds 13 years, dd 12 years, dd 9 years , dd 6 and ds 4

Psalm 13
How long, O Lord? Will you forget me forever?How long will you hide your face from me? 2 How long must I take counsel in my soul
and have sorrow in my heart all the day?....because I am shaken. 5 But I have trusted in your steadfast love;
my heart shall rejoice in your salvation. 6 I will sing to the Lord,
because he has dealt bountifully with me.







houseforjoy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to houseforjoy For This Useful Post:
canadiyank (05-27-2014), NayneeNoo (05-19-2014), Soliloquy (05-19-2014), squiddles (05-19-2014)
Old 05-19-2014, 10:24 AM   #9
Sparrow
Rose Garden
 
Immerse your soul in love.
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 17,605
Sparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canning newbie, help me buy my equipment

I bought a cheap propane burner because we have a glass top. I got it for less than $50. It can then come in handy for camping too!

My main concern is that my stove shuts itself off if it gets too hot. Honestly I'm more concerned about the temperature fluctuations and not maintaining a safe temperature than breaking my stove.

I think some people have put a grill thing under their canner. DH wasn't keen on doing that.
__________________
Manda

Mama to:

Bear 16.75 Funny and Tender. Larger than life. ENFP
Max 14 Affectionate and Spirited. Artist
Chickadee 8! She's Sunshine and Song. Born in the caul

We have a fur baby. A cat called Charlie
Sparrow is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Sparrow For This Useful Post:
Soliloquy (05-19-2014)
Old 05-19-2014, 11:38 AM   #10
Soliloquy
Rose Garden
 
Why climb a mountain? Because it's there!
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Selkirk Mountains
Posts: 52,860
Soliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canning newbie, help me buy my equipment

The feed store sell stand-alone electric coil burners and they're not expensive, I think they're only $15. I have a friend who cans on her glass top, even with her pressure canner. It makes me nervous, though. We do NOT have the funds to replace this cooktop, even though I'd be thrilled to replace it.

It is even more annoying because it is a super expensive Electrolux Icon. It is the worst thing I have ever cooked on, it burns things so easily. I've cooked on cheap apartment stoves, gas stoves, over a campfire . . . this thing is the worst.
Soliloquy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2014, 01:26 PM   #11
Sparrow
Rose Garden
 
Immerse your soul in love.
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 17,605
Sparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond reputeSparrow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canning newbie, help me buy my equipment

We bought a plae once with a $2000 stove in it. My kenmore $800 one we put I. This house is much better
__________________
Manda

Mama to:

Bear 16.75 Funny and Tender. Larger than life. ENFP
Max 14 Affectionate and Spirited. Artist
Chickadee 8! She's Sunshine and Song. Born in the caul

We have a fur baby. A cat called Charlie
Sparrow is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Sparrow For This Useful Post:
Soliloquy (05-20-2014)
Old 05-19-2014, 05:49 PM   #12
Soliloquy
Rose Garden
 
Why climb a mountain? Because it's there!
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Selkirk Mountains
Posts: 52,860
Soliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canning newbie, help me buy my equipment

So, I did some research. Electrolux cooktops are safe for canning and will get hot enough IF you use a flat-bottom canner. They cost $80 at Amazon and don't come with all the gizmos.

Or, I could use my gas grill or buy a stand-alone electric element.

The gas grill would keep the heat out of the house but be less convenient.
Soliloquy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2014, 01:39 AM   #13
Maedchen
Rose Trellis
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,482
Maedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond reputeMaedchen has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canning newbie, help me buy my equipment

That is just a water bath container good for fruits and jellies.

Did it say that you can use a pressure canner for canning on the Electrolux. They get extremely hot and you have to run them for an hour or more when canning.
Maedchen is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Maedchen For This Useful Post:
Soliloquy (05-20-2014)
Old 05-20-2014, 05:34 AM   #14
Soliloquy
Rose Garden
 
Why climb a mountain? Because it's there!
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Selkirk Mountains
Posts: 52,860
Soliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond reputeSoliloquy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canning newbie, help me buy my equipment

For now, I only plan to do jams and tomatoes. We don't like anything else canned. Eventually, I might want to can soup for preparedness but definitely not in the next two years. I have tons of freezer space so I freeze veggies and soups.


My biggest thing right now is the size of the element. I need to go measure it and check against that SS water bath canner.

Last edited by Soliloquy; 05-20-2014 at 05:37 AM.
Soliloquy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2014, 08:00 AM   #15
kklibrarian
Moderator to Adoption & Foster Care, Cloth Diapering & EC, Gardening, Infertility, Large Families, and WOHM's
 
The Famous Belladonna Took
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: In Bilbo's Heart, Formerly of Bag End
Posts: 7,805
kklibrarian has a reputation beyond reputekklibrarian has a reputation beyond reputekklibrarian has a reputation beyond reputekklibrarian has a reputation beyond reputekklibrarian has a reputation beyond reputekklibrarian has a reputation beyond reputekklibrarian has a reputation beyond reputekklibrarian has a reputation beyond reputekklibrarian has a reputation beyond reputekklibrarian has a reputation beyond reputekklibrarian has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Canning newbie, help me buy my equipment

I have never canned on a glass cook-top, so I can provide no advice in that respect. I do jellies, preserves, pickles, and tomatoes all in a water bath canner. I have the Ball tools that come with the "beginner kit" and my grandmother's copy of the Ball Blue Book. I recommend both. I have other canning and preserve books, and I do them, but I still go back to the Ball Blue Book again and again.
__________________
Beloved wife to my hubby since December 2002.
Blessed and grateful adoptive mommy to my three beautiful dds and two wonderful ds', collectively known as "The Kidlets"
Presto (ds) - age 22 almost
Sky (dd) - age 21 ish
Jolie (dd) - age practically 20
Jilly (dd) - age ditto
Sigh (ds) - age 15 or "thereabouts"
kklibrarian is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kklibrarian For This Useful Post:
Soliloquy (05-20-2014)
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:25 AM.


A variety of opinions and ideas are shared on GCM. Personal experiences, suggestions, and tips found here are in no way intended to substitute for medical counsel from a healthcare professional. Always use your own good judgement and seek professional advice when in doubt about a health concern.

Amazon.com affiliate link

Copyright 1997-2017 by Gentle Christian Mothers™
An alternative-minded, evangelical Christian community supporting attachment parenting and natural living.

Do not post content elsewhere.
http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/community/

Some smilies created and copyrighted by Mazeguy.
Some smilies and avatars created and copyrighted by flowermama and children -- do not use elsewhere.

Soli Deo Gloria
To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. ~ Romans 16:27 (KJV)

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

X vBulletin 3.8.3 Debug Information
  • Page Generation 0.10241 seconds
  • Memory Usage 8,089KB
  • Queries Executed 14 (?)
More Information
Template Usage:
  • (1)SHOWTHREAD
  • (1)ad_footer_end
  • (1)ad_footer_start
  • (1)ad_header_end
  • (1)ad_header_logo
  • (1)ad_navbar_below
  • (1)ad_showthread_beforeqr
  • (1)ad_showthread_firstpost
  • (1)ad_showthread_firstpost_sig
  • (1)ad_showthread_firstpost_start
  • (1)cyb_flashimagebanners
  • (1)footer
  • (1)forumjump
  • (1)forumrules
  • (1)gobutton
  • (1)header
  • (1)headinclude
  • (1)navbar
  • (4)navbar_link
  • (60)option
  • (1)pagenav
  • (1)pagenav_curpage
  • (1)pagenav_pagelink
  • (15)post_groan_box
  • (1)post_groan_javascript
  • (1)post_groan_navbar_search
  • (15)post_thanks_box
  • (23)post_thanks_box_bit
  • (1)post_thanks_javascript
  • (1)post_thanks_navbar_search
  • (11)post_thanks_postbit_legacy
  • (15)postbit_legacy
  • (15)postbit_onlinestatus
  • (165)postbit_reputation
  • (15)postbit_wrapper
  • (4)showthread_bookmarksite
  • (1)smqre_editor_button
  • (1)spacer_close
  • (1)spacer_open
  • (1)tagbit_wrapper 

Phrase Groups Available:
  • global
  • inlinemod
  • postbit
  • posting
  • reputationlevel
  • showthread
Included Files:
  • ./showthread.php
  • ./global.php
  • ./includes/init.php
  • ./includes/class_core.php
  • ./includes/config.php
  • ./includes/functions.php
  • ./includes/class_hook.php
  • ./includes/functions_notice.php
  • ./mobiquo/smartbanner.php
  • ./mobiquo/include/classTTConnection.php
  • ./mobiquo/smartbanner/head.inc.php
  • ./includes/functions_bigthree.php
  • ./includes/class_postbit.php
  • ./includes/class_bbcode.php
  • ./includes/functions_reputation.php
  • ./includes/adminfunctions_template.php
  • ./includes/functions_misc.php
  • ./includes/functions_post_thanks.php
  • ./includes/functions_post_groan.php 

Hooks Called:
  • init_startup
  • cache_permissions
  • fetch_threadinfo_query
  • fetch_threadinfo
  • fetch_foruminfo
  • style_fetch
  • cache_templates
  • global_start
  • parse_templates
  • fetch_musername
  • notices_check_start
  • global_setup_complete
  • showthread_start
  • template_groups
  • template_safe_functions
  • template_compile
  • showthread_getinfo
  • forumjump
  • showthread_post_start
  • showthread_query_postids
  • showthread_query
  • bbcode_fetch_tags
  • bbcode_create
  • showthread_postbit_create
  • postbit_factory
  • postbit_display_start
  • post_thanks_function_post_thanks_off_start
  • post_thanks_function_post_thanks_off_end
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_end
  • post_thanks_function_thanked_already_start
  • post_thanks_function_thanked_already_end
  • post_groan_function_post_groan_off_start
  • post_groan_function_post_groan_off_end
  • post_groan_function_fetch_groans_start
  • post_groan_function_fetch_groans_end
  • post_groan_function_groaned_already_start
  • post_groan_function_groaned_already_end
  • reputation_image
  • postbit_imicons
  • bbcode_parse_start
  • bbcode_parse_complete_precache
  • bbcode_parse_complete
  • postbit_display_complete
  • error_fetch
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_bit_start
  • post_thanks_function_show_thanks_date_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_thanks_bit_end
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_post_thanks_template_start
  • post_thanks_function_fetch_post_thanks_template_end
  • pagenav_page
  • pagenav_complete
  • tag_fetchbit_complete
  • forumrules
  • showthread_bookmarkbit
  • navbits
  • navbits_complete
  • showthread_complete