Laura Ingalls and Whipping (spin off)

[mamaKristin]

Iirc, wasn't Cousin Charlie not only a boy? But a bit older. The expectations would probably be different for both of those cases. Often in farming situations, and homesteading, not obeying and goofing off was serious business. I have friends my age who have been through farm accidents - thankfully no career or life ending ones.

Farmer Boy had lots more corporal punishment. For sure.

I remember when my kids were small, in our previous church, we ran up against some serious old school attitudes about children and their in church behaviour. We flatly told the church that we would not do what had been done to please other church attenders We were warned that threatening our children with pain was the only way to get compliance...and then we asked them how many of THEIR children still attended church Quite a few admitted that their kids had next to no happy memories of being in church


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[3PeasInAPod]

Gosh I wish I could remember the book I got at the library once. Pioneer kids. It was written in the 30 ' s but was about pioneer days-meant to teach kids about other kids in pioneer days. That book had so much punitive stuff I couldn't even read it to my kids for the pioneer days aspect. I remember it saying stuff like life was harsh and babies had to buck up quick bc mama didn't have time to coddle and baby would get whipped real quick if they were a bother. I mean granted the author was telling it thru her lense but still it made me feel sick after reading about it

[schmamy]

TBH, I don't vividly remember much mention of corporal punishment in the series (and that's having just read it in the last year or so). What sticks out most in my mind is the amount/level of shaming. Constantly. Over and over and over the message it was shameful to cry, even as a young child.

So whatever I do or don't know about the amount/level of whipping, that puts the stories in a punitive, non-gentle parenting framework for me. Very authoritarian, obey-me-immediately-OR-ELSE as Lisa has been saying. Plus I suppose I am just making assumptions (always dangerous, I realize) based on my (admittedly limited) understanding of the times, the way things were back then.

At the same time, I'm sure there *were* other very significant factors, as have been mentioned here: danger of life, how much hard work/free time, life spent *working* alongside parents, lack of entertainment, etc.

[Sparrow]

I can cone back and reference, but iirc Laura was spanked once, in The Big Woods for slapping Mary.


There is an article that rose wrote that wa published in the sampler that spoke of how laura did not want to spark but she did because she didn't know what else to do. Rose was never spanked for "not being diligent" like some kids were.
I also wonder if Rose was incredibly spirited. I find it hard and I have the tools!

---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 PM ----------

I read the incident with the dog and Pa's severity not a pa being angry but that the consequence of releasing the dog would have meant more than likely death for the the family. Definitely for Jack

It was a scary place for the time and I never got why those poor girls were left all alone all day

[Joyanne]

Just finished reading lhop out loud to my son. They weren't left alone. Ma was home, but the girls were outside b/c they felt sorry that Jack had to be tied up and were keeping him company. The Indians came then, and the that is when they thought of releasing jack. I always thought Pa was simply terrified of what could have happened if they had let jack loose. They, being children simply thought that Jack would keep them all safe. They didn't understand the consequences, but Pa did.

In christ, joy

[Soliloquy]

Rose was not only spirited but brilliant. Her memoirs are hilarious and impressive. I especially love the stories from the year she spent in Louisiana getting her high school diploma.

---------- Post added at 12:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 PM ----------

Originally Posted by schmamy

TBH, I don't vividly remember much mention of corporal punishment in the series (and that's having just read it in the last year or so). What sticks out most in my mind is the amount/level of shaming. Constantly. Over and over and over the message it was shameful to cry, even as a young child.

So whatever I do or don't know about the amount/level of whipping, that puts the stories in a punitive, non-gentle parenting framework for me. Very authoritarian, obey-me-immediately-OR-ELSE as Lisa has been saying.

. And, tbph, it affects me. After reading it to my kids (I've read the entire series at least 3 times aloud, since I've been a parent) I have to watch my own attitude and expectations.

I read the entire series at least ten times as a child and it didn't affect me in the same way at all. In fact, rereading The Long Winter as an adult was very shocking. As a child, it didn't hit me how close they were to utter starvation.

---------- Post added at 12:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 PM ----------

I didn't pick up on Caroline's blatant hatred of Indians as a child, either.

[Beth1231]

It affects me too
I love the series,they're almost family in my mind.
But yeah,my punitive family members affect me too.

[Soliloquy]

Yup. When I was a kid I wished I could be Laura. I have no doubt she felt completely loved and we know how much she loved her family.

[Joyanne]

Originally Posted by Soliloquy

Rose was not only spirited but brilliant. Her memoirs are hilarious and impressive. I especially love the stories from the year she spent in Louisiana getting her high school diploma.

---------- Post added at 12:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 PM ----------



. And, tbph, it affects me. After reading it to my kids (I've read the entire series at least 3 times aloud, since I've been a parent) I have to watch my own attitude and expectations.

I read the entire series at least ten times as a child and it didn't affect me in the same way at all. In fact, rereading The Long Winter as an adult was very shocking. As a child, it didn't hit me how close they were to utter starvation.

---------- Post added at 12:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 PM ----------

I didn't pick up on Caroline's blatant hatred of Indians as a child, either.

You know, as an adult reading them, I saw Caroline's feelings towards the Indians as just flat out sheer terror. She was terrified of being scalped, massacred etc b/c of the stories in the newspapers, told by friends, neighbors, etc.

[rjy9343]

Originally Posted by Joyanne

You know, as an adult reading them, I saw Caroline's feelings towards the Indians as just flat out sheer terror. She was terrified of being scalped, massacred etc b/c of the stories in the newspapers, told by friends, neighbors, etc.

As a child, I saw that she did not like Indians. But I thought it was not because she hated them as much as it was she was afraid of them. Though I did notice she was very concerned with appearances. She did not like Laura working in the fields because only immigrant girls did that. Nor did she like how rough Laura's hands were because they looked more like a man's than a girls. As an adult, I think it was because she was worried about what kind of husband and life Laura would have because of those things more than she was worried about what people thought.

[ECingMama]

I really liked Farmer Boy. The dad mentioned not hitting animals. I sure wish that had translated to children.

[Llee]

We don't skip over that part and talk about it with our kids as they have questions. I think it really depended on the culture/part of the country you were living in as to whether there were more or less whippings/spankings than mentioned in the series.

[Zooey]

Rose Wilder Lane wad a superb writer, herself, and had great success. Her writing is easily distinguished from her mother's writing. I'd have to see really hard evidence that Rose did anything other than offer constructive criticism to the Little House books. The reason The First Four Years read so differently than the previous books is that, after Manly died, Laura didn't have the heart to finish editing

I agree. When Rose wrote her own stories about the same period, they were completely different in style from Laura's books.

Any how.....I actually wanted to say that Laura gave many interviews to magazines, & on radio, and one of the things she told about, was the fact that she only was spanked once & that was the time in the book. She also said that her mother didn't believe in spanking, & never, not even once did she hit any of the children.
She had never intended to put that one incident in the book, but both her editors & Rose told her that no one would ever believe that she had never been spanked, so she reluctantly put it in. After that, she refused to make up more whippings because she wasn't going to lie about it.

---------- Post added at 02:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Joyanne

You know, as an adult reading them, I saw Caroline's feelings towards the Indians as just flat out sheer terror. She was terrified of being scalped, massacred etc b/c of the stories in the newspapers, told by friends, neighbors, etc.

This. Caroline's own parents had been quite friendly with the Indians, according to what I have read, but I wonder if there wasn't an untold story
about a scary experience later in her life. She seems to have had a real phobia about Indians. There must have been an explanation somewhere...
I heard a TV interview I heard as a small child, with a former British prime minister, & he said that his American mother (raised in the old West) had gone all the way around the house, inside & out, checking for "hostile Indians", & he would always say, "But, Mother, this is London!" She wouldn't tell the children any stories about Indians at all, but lived in terror till the end of her life. Kind of like Caroline.

[Sparrow]

It's been so long since I've read it - the life of Laura Ingalls wilder by zochert but I believe after Caroline's father was lost at sea her mother would not have survived the winter without the help of Indians.

I also though she was absolutely terrified of massacre. It was a very real threat when they were (illegally) in Indian territory. And the stories. Maybe much like how some people are afraid of Muslims? There is some blatant racism that doesn't sit well with me.

[ShepherdsWife]

I always got the impression they were very afraid of Indians and not really hated them. Later, Laura seems in other books to almost admire them.
Massacres and stories ran everywhere and they had some good cause to be cautious. Also, the mainstream ignorance and attitude of the day towards non-Christian, non-white people probably effected them even if they were progressive for their time.


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