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Old 09-20-2008, 05:08 AM   #31
WanderingJuniper
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Default Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5

Thank you for that post. I find that at 4 suddenly the little things like messes and potty misses upset me. Yet, when you look at them at 4 they still are so little.
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Old 09-20-2008, 06:56 AM   #32
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Default Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5

good points. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 09-20-2008, 07:09 AM   #33
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Default Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5

one thought I wanted to add . . . I was in an online discussion with a woman years ago on the MOPS board discussing spanking and she at one point said, "So you're saying that all the things I work so hard to spank out of them before the age of 5 I should just put up with?" and I answered, 'I'm saying that by the age of 5, whether you spank or not, most children will have naturally grown out of those things. Spanking has nothing to do with them stopping--it's maturity.'

I still get people contacting me from that thread
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Old 09-20-2008, 07:17 AM   #34
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Default Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5

I have been thinking about and struggling with this concept a lot the last few weeks.
In our case, I have to not only view them as much younger, but in some areas tactfully treat them as much younger. Because of our 6yo's history, her emotional, behavioral development is only the level of an average 2yo. I have found that we have a lot less trauma moments if I keep her in the same room with me at all times, like I would a young toddler. The 4, 5 and even 2 yo don't require the stricter boundaries and extreme supervision. It's hard not letting her know I am treating her like a baby, when she can see the others have more freedom. Sadly, when I let her have more space, she is immediately into things that are not appropriate. Yesterday she went in the barn, which is "off limits", and spilled 2 gals of gas/oil mix for the chainsaw on herself and the 2yo.
The hard part of setting safe limits is that what would work for a child her emotional age, doesn't work for a child her physical age. she has learned to open most safety latches and even how to unlock doors with a screwdriver or bobbypins.

Sorry this got long, hopefully it is fitting in subject. I am trying to type with tantrumming 5 & 6 yo on the floor next to me. they were fighting over the 2 yo's chair and sunglasses. They decided they like hers better than their own.
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Old 09-20-2008, 07:23 AM   #35
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Default Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5

Wow, Heather, that's quite a transforming thought! I'll definitely have to share this with DH.
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Old 09-20-2008, 07:42 AM   #36
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Default Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5

Tay, special needs children need to be treated according to their developmental age, not their actual age. Just like preemies for the first few years need to be compared to their actual age and not adjusted age. That makes it all harder--but IME having a special needs child made it even more real how much up to age 5 they were just little ones. When a 4yo is acting like a 4yo it's frustrating--when a 10yo is acting like a 4yo it's sad
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Old 09-20-2008, 08:04 AM   #37
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Default Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5

Where did you learn that??!! I would like to share it but I need to be able to "prove" it
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Old 09-20-2008, 08:47 AM   #38
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Default Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5

So, yesterday I was listening to the director of my school talk on brain development- and I will paraphrase what she said- (next week when I get the chance to talk to her more - I will get more research to back this up.)

As an infant grows the brains two hemespheres start forming connections- these connections make it possible to integrate information and create complex thoughts- these connections are not "mature" until the age of 7-10. So she was saying that until these connections are made- we a) need to expect that children won't always be able to access information we think they know b) need to be their connections for them by modeling and coaching
She also pointed out how countries that don't start formal schooling until this age have 100% literacy rates.

Taking it a step further- she says that the frontal lobe- which is where logic, and impulse control is, does not fully integrate into the brian until 21-25 years of age.

I was just that her talk went right with this thread.
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Old 09-20-2008, 10:26 AM   #39
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Default Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5

Wow!! I have been having a difficult time with my 4 yr old (almost 5 in November) testing boundaries everyday several times a day in a very loud way..She has always been passionate but for the most part we will have a good day following a more challenging day. This thread helped me ALOT!!! I am trying to remain consistent but don't always have the back up with DH. I have 2 specific questions....I am wondering if anyone has had a little one who like to play with the tp as they are going potty. She will make things with the tp and she has clogged the toilet a couple times. I explained that it could break the potty and it's wasting what we have been given ect.. I had to take the tp and only give her a little bit while she is in there. If she needs more than she is to ask for it, or help from me if she needs it..(wiping the poo) I hope I'm handling this right. She is also insisting she is to be called by whatever animal or character that she is pretending to be for the day, and gets mad at me if I forget what she has decided to "be" for the day... please know she changes her character a few times a day...Is this level of pretend play normal?
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Old 09-20-2008, 10:34 AM   #40
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Default Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5

I copied the OP in my word processor & Dana's post on brain development.

Heather - what studies/books are there that explains the Hebrew thought about infants-5yrs old are still babies?

Does anyone know of a good scientific/intellectual book on toddler brain development?
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Old 09-20-2008, 11:51 AM   #41
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Default Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5

But...but...but.....my guy is 8 now. He cant be a big kid yet. Im not ready. He still sleeps with us. He used to sleep on his own and maybe visit us two or three times a week. Now he comes in every night. We just moved and he is scared of he dark up there. However I do see some big kid qualities.

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Old 09-20-2008, 11:55 AM   #42
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Default Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmsOfLove
one thought I wanted to add . . . I was in an online discussion with a woman years ago on the MOPS board discussing spanking and she at one point said, "So you're saying that all the things I work so hard to spank out of them before the age of 5 I should just put up with?" and I answered, 'I'm saying that by the age of 5, whether you spank or not, most children will have naturally grown out of those things. Spanking has nothing to do with them stopping--it's maturity.'

I still get people contacting me from that thread
How interesting. And exciting that people are still reading it.
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Old 09-20-2008, 12:11 PM   #43
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Default Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mommy
So, yesterday I was listening to the director of my school talk on brain development- and I will paraphrase what she said- (next week when I get the chance to talk to her more - I will get more research to back this up.)

As an infant grows the brains two hemespheres start forming connections- these connections make it possible to integrate information and create complex thoughts- these connections are not "mature" until the age of 7-10. So she was saying that until these connections are made- we a) need to expect that children won't always be able to access information we think they know b) need to be their connections for them by modeling and coaching
She also pointed out how countries that don't start formal schooling until this age have 100% literacy rates.

Taking it a step further- she says that the frontal lobe- which is where logic, and impulse control is, does not fully integrate into the brian until 21-25 years of age.

I was just that her talk went right with this thread.
Funny how just now (in the 21st century), we are just starting to realize what God had clearly discussed in His Word several thousand years ago.
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Old 09-20-2008, 12:21 PM   #44
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Default Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5

WHat a lovely reminder!!!

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Old 09-22-2008, 12:03 AM   #45
ArmsOfLove
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Default Re: A radical idea - viewing kids as babies till 5

play along with her pretend play

Quote:
I am wondering if anyone has had a little one who like to play with the tp as they are going potty.
put it up where it's out of her reach and hand her enough to wipe while you supervise. BTDT a few times

As for "proof" you can check out the book "Spare the Rod" by Samuel Martin--it supports a lot of what I've put forth in my studies and backs it up with the Hebrew.

You can also look at Classical Education theory on brain development
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