Questions about CIO

[Pilgrim]

Based on reading and hearing from friends who practice CIO, I have some questions for those of you who might have more experience with friends who practice CIO and how to deal with that as the adversarial parenting escalates with a more capable child. How to deal, hmm, I guess I mean how to provide support pointing to non-adversarial parenting as things escalate.

I thought the whole point of CIO was that you did it for "a few days" and then the baby just self-soothed himself to sleep so you didn't have to keep hearing him wail at night. But I have friends who have been doing CIO for a year at least, and they plunk their baby in the crib, turn off the light, close the door, and their baby still cries for 10-20 minutes every night.

So my question is? Is that normal? That you still have to listen to a crying baby for 10+ minutes every night? What happens when they get too big for the crib and there's no container for their unhappiness? Do parents who CIO hold the door shut or what? Or start spanking? Once you start that, how do you tell if baby is crying for the reason you are getting him to CIO (going to sleep) or because of something else that you need to deal with--like being sick or being mauled by a rat or whatever?

I just had some eye-opening reading today on fb--like I didn't realize that CIO meant you let your baby cry for hours without responding. Total revelation to me. So that brought up these questions along with wondering how best to provide info about alternatives in the future.

[katiekind]

I don't know....that is so hard to think about. That's one reason I became a volunteer in an organization that supports mothers and educates them about infant needs and development - it helped me feel that I was doing *something* to try and turn the tide.

[BarefootBetsy]

Those are good questions. I wish I had some answers

[Aerynne]

IME most cio kids cry themselves to sleep every night. And when some sociopath is on the news I wonder why there aren't more sociopaths if that treatment is considered normal.

As far as why they are crying, I have heard one mom say she came in in the morning to discover her dd had thrown up everywhere. Mom had dismissed her crying in the night. I have heard parents say when the cry sounds different or is unusual for the child (longer crying, for example) they'll go in.

And I have known people who have locked their kids in their room all night. All you have to do is install a locking bedroom doorknob around backwards and lock it then your child is stuck in their room all night long no matter what. (I am not advocating this- just saying one method people use)

This is interesting because I actually practiced CIO with my now 2 year old when I didn't know better. She cried for maybe 10-15 the first time I did it and from that point on she rarely cried and was super easy to put to sleep in her crib. I did it starting at 6 months old. I checked her frequently and made sure that all of her needs were taken care of. She has slept through the night since then for the most part. IDK, I'm not trying to justify what I did, just telling you what I did in the past even though it isn't something I would do now. So please don't get upset with me.

[Elibellamiah]

Maybe there are different definitions to cry it out. My experience was more like bclemons84. I did it when my oldest son was 2, I was determined not to but all I ever heard from people (starting from the time my son was a little tiny baby ) was that I was going to have to let him cry eventually. So I was about to have a new baby and desperate and I asked for prayer in a Bible Study group and someone bought me the Ferber book and dropped it off at my house. I decided it must be what God wanted, so I tried it. I did our bed time routine, read a book, prayed with him, and then left the room and sat outside the door, he cried and I went back in his room and comforted him after 5 minutes, 10 minutes, and 15 minutes. The first day I went in his room 3 times, the 2nd day 2, once on the 3rd day and that was the last time he ever cried at bed time. I tried the same method with my daughter and it didn't work AT ALL, she got more upset every time I went in her room to comfort her. Unfortunately at that point I did just let her cry for 2 hours straight because I didn't know what else to do. like my with my son it got shorter each day and only lasted 3 days before she stopped crying at bedtime. I do wonder if it hurt our relationship though. If the child is crying every night and being completely ignored (the parents aren't going back in and comforting them) that's sad and obviously not working. I don't know what to say to the person though.
-I'm afraid this is sounded like I was promoting CIO, I'm not intending to do that. I hope it still makes sense now that it's edited, and please don't judge me too harshly now that I've shared my experience with my daughter

[WingsOfTheMorning]

IME, CIO means different things to different people. Some people it means just leave them to cry, but others, like described above, do a more controlled approach, go in to comfort periodically, etc. Ask Moxie is a blog where the author talks about how one of her sons would escalate if left to cry and the other would not be rocked to sleep. He would fuss/cry for a couple minutes and be out.

It breaks my heart to think of the babies who are left to cry for hours, but I know that's not necessarily whats happening every time someone mentions CIO.

[Amahoro]

Most people I know who talk about leaving a baby to cry, mean it in the way mentioned above: leave for a little while, go in if gets beyond a grizzle, and only leave 'to cry' for 10 minutes or so (and again going in if gets hysterical).

So they have major issues with me when I say I am anti CIO in my beliefs, because they believe I have the wrong assumption on it (ie. leave babies to cry all night and ignore in every case, which is not the situation).

However, my BIL and SIL DO leave my niece (their youngest, now 16 months or so) to CIO for hours. The child is terrified of bed time. That particular case makes me ill - I get so much rubbish from my BIL for tending to my son if he's not going to sleep that I'm 'babying' my child - yet his little girl after 13 months of being left on her own to cry/scream to sleep is not learning anything from it but to be terrified of going to bed.


I do believe that my family CIO experience is not what most people are talking about when they mention leaving their child to cry. What is mentioned by others is more 'attend if they get hysterical or don't settle after 5-10 minutes'.

So yeah, I do think it means different things to different people.

[Pilgrim]

Yeah, I thought CIO meant Ferber-like training. But from my reading today, every single person expressed that it was an hours long ordeal for several nights and no one mentioned that there was even an alternative. (Well, except me who suggested the No-Cry Sleep Solution .) Most encouraged not to go in at all, because then you've given in and they will learn that if they cry, you come--and that the longer you wait to start, the harder it is on the child, so start as early as possible.

Big eye opener.

[Sparrow]

Some babies give up easy too. I was sleep trained at 3 weeks I think..... it took a few nights. This absolutely breaks my mom's heart. She was 20, but was convinced she had too.

And babies do cry for all sorts of reasons. My friend who refuses to be munipulated had her daughter cry for 40 minutes in the car before she finally addressed the crying. G had her fingers pinched closed in the carseat strap. She was so desensitized to the crying. Its really sad.

[ArmsOfLove]

It's really important to remember that responses need to not violate the SOB. There is *no* posting in support of CIO on the board. This is a very sensitive issue for many women and this is not a place they need to read support of such a practice.

[gerberadaisy]

My little guy has been known to cry for an hour + while in my arms when I was putting him to sleep. I can't even imagine what would happen if I were to use CIO. It would be heart breaking.

[Hopetobe]

Originally Posted by katiekind

I don't know....that is so hard to think about. That's one reason I became a volunteer in an organization that supports mothers and educates them about infant needs and development - it helped me feel that I was doing *something* to try and turn the tide.

Can I ask what organization that is?

[MegMarch]

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

So my question is? Is that normal? That you still have to listen to a crying baby for 10+ minutes every night? What happens when they get too big for the crib and there's no container for their unhappiness? Do parents who CIO hold the door shut or what? Or start spanking? Once you start that, how do you tell if baby is crying for the reason you are getting him to CIO (going to sleep) or because of something else that you need to deal with--like being sick or being mauled by a rat or whatever?

Most STers I've discussed this with feel that once it is done (usually a few days to a few weeks) it is ok to do a little cuddling, co-sleeping, extra babying, during sickness and teething. Then they have a mini-CIO redo session at the end of that if things don't jump right back to the pattern.

When they move from cribs they tend to do the Super Nanny silent return to bed over and over until it takes method.

I have a lot of problems with CIO in general but the big one imo is that society doesn't allow for babying babies at all. Maternity leave is a big one. Expectations of immediate return to pre-baby bikini-ready bodies. The idea that if you aren't sexing your fellow (or meeting those penis needs in other ways if you just can't bear intercourse) he'll just die. Date nights at 3 months in and being fully available to employers and friends right away. Not "losing ourselves to motherhood" when our babies still need us so very much is a disservice to families. If we could be ok with babies having baby needs and giving parents the space and time and "permission" to meet them it would make a big difference.

No parents want their LOs to cry for them at night. They do it because they think their sweet babies need to learn to self soothe (even they can't even figure out how to get a paci back in on their own yet) and/or they feel their ability to function as expected isn't possible with the night wakings. It really is sad.

[Codi]

Some kid's give up very easily. Some fight for their needs to be met. One kid might cry a night or two. Another, every night, forever. Some do the controlled timing thing, where they come in every X minutes. Some shut the door while there are hours of crying. How far they go with it will look different for each family who makes the choice to do CIO.

A child should never go without his needs being met.