Need help dealing with Church Nursery

[FlyingBlueKiwi]

Originally Posted by daina

My husband knows how I feel about this, and he is in support and on board with me in taking turns staying in the nursery.

He's on board with AP. Is he also on board with parenting gently as your DS gets older? (the reason I ask is because the same people who are pushing you to leave your DS in the nursery will soon - perhaps as early as 18 months - be pushing you to parent your toddler *very* punitively...and may even claim that not to do so is disobeying God :eyeroll).

[daina]

Originally Posted by FlyingBlueKiwi

He's on board with AP. Is he also on board with parenting gently as your DS gets older? (the reason I ask is because the same people who are pushing you to leave your DS in the nursery will soon - perhaps as early as 18 months - be pushing you to parent your toddler *very* punitively...and may even claim that not to do so is disobeying God :eyeroll).

Well, I have really just begun to do the research on GBD, so it's kind of a new realm for us. My husband has said that he thinks spanking will have its place, so we will see how our parenting unfolds. If I can learn up on GBD and have a real tool bag to work with in raising up our son, I think my husband will try to work with it as well... My husband did scoff at me yesterday for always having to try to do everything "alternatively" instead of traditionally . So DH is not all on board, but he is reasonable and considers my concerns. He is at least OK with me parenting AP, and with me trusting my maternal instincts.

I agree with you that those people are going it try to encourage us to discipline putatively in the future, because that is how I have seen them do it. I just have to be careful not to express my frustrations and doubts around them, because I know what their answer will be... I 'd like to build the foundational understanding of GBD(and understand it's basis in scripture) so that I can stand up for my convictions when they are challenged.

[RoseOfGrace]

Originally Posted by daina

I 'd like to build the foundational understanding of GBD(and understand it's basis in scripture) so that I can stand up for my convictions when they are challenged.

Good plan. We didn't learn about gentle parenting until several years into our parenting journey. I read some of the fantastic resources recommended on this site and was able to get my husband to read (or let me read to him) some of the articles and websites (especially about spanking origins and about other options and why relational is better/healthier). Those were instrumental in him coming on board. It's been a challenging journey to go from punitive (what we both grew up with) to a more gentle, relational approach. We are still learning how to do this and get flack from some of our family. But, knowing what we know now, we are doing this whether our family likes it or not.

Just over Thanksgiving, my SIL was relating a story about friends of hers with a 2 year old and how she was urging them to just lock him in a crib, put one of those kid tents over it so he can't climb out, and let him cry it out to teach him he can't manipulate his parents. She told me that the child had thrown up in bed multiple times in order to get his way and get the parents to either lay with him (he recently moved to a toddler bed apparently) or rock with him until he could sleep. I felt physically ill as I listened to her. She said something to the effect that she wouldn't do that every night because she "has things to do." And then related a story of how she once let her oldest sleep in his own vomit to teach him a lesson. Heartbreaking (and also explains some things). She loves her kids, but just has no clue what she is and has been doing to them. She rarely says anything directly now, but does drop hints about what she thinks of our parenting. But, knowing what we know, we would never go back. This way is SO MUCH better in the long run!

[MegMarch]

Hello

I wanted to remind you that you do not have to convince anyone that you are doing what is right for your family. You can have answers if they actually want to know more, but getting others to support you or even understand, it's not a burden you need to take on.

I think many who have concerns about making idols out of children are simply unaware of or have forgotten a few things. Life has seasons. When children are small, their needs for parents to be near physically are higher. Just like they need to eat and sleep more than bigger kids. Meeting those needs is not idolatry. So a parent of young children may not participate in church the same as a single person, empty nest couple or teenager. Also, we as parents are our children's first evidence of God's character. For better or worse In the Bible, we see God compared to a loving and attentive parent multiple times. Also, as parents we make a lot of sacrifices for our children to be tender and attuned to their needs and meeting those needs. That is not idolatry, it's the sacrificial love we offer which reflects God's love for us.

I would try to come up with some statements that help you feel like you are standing up for yourself and your family without insulting others or engaging discussion. "We are fine, thanks." "I've got this, Husband and I prefer Baby associate church time with happy family time and don't mind missing out ourselves sometimes." "Thanks, we are good." "I may take you up on that next time." "Interesting, I'll think about it."

[Little Forest]

Amen, Meg!
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[BestLaidPlans]

MegMarch, preach it!

And when God talks about idols in the Bible, He's actually meaning literal idols. Bow down and worship, give them credit for His work, trust in them instead of Him - idols. (Even in the apostles' letters to churches.) Getting priorities out of whack is a whole 'nother thing. That phrase they are using is a judgmental buzz phrase most of the time. There's quite a few of those in church culture.

[MudPies]

Denominations that lean legalistic are usually very punitive. For me personally, I would not do well in a denom that is not grace based. I think if you stick with this denim, you will be fighting an uphill, against the grain battle and will constantly have your faith questioned. I had an enlightenment moment when I was discussing spankibg with a friend. We realized we had different core beliefs about God. She totally believed that God still punishes us, will withhold His love, etc so she needed to punish her kids. I do not believe that at all- if it were true there would be no need for Christ's death. My advice is to read and study and make sure the denom you pick lines up with your view of God, and your parenting practices will follow. I only wish I had done that earlier in my walk.

[Redeemed]

I'm going to interject here. I've learned that not all IFB churches are the same. Not all IFB churches are legalistic and punitive. I visited two when I was active duty. The first one was amazing and not legalistic at all. The second one was horrible. The one I attend now is not legalistic, either. Where we are now seems to be IFB in name only and operates more like a Southern Baptist church. Our pastor used to play in the NFL. We aren't the only family in the church that practices AP. There's another family (w/11 kiddos) that does also.

[MudPies]

Agreed that not all are, but this one is if they are hitting babies with spoons. Overall I would say that most baptist denoms are more punitive than not. The majority are. Personally I would be wary before enmeshibg myself and esp if I was going to become a pastor, into any denom that is mostly punitive unless I was ready for a battle my whole life.

[FlyingBlueKiwi]

Originally Posted by daina

Well we wanted to find a faithful independent baptist church that preaches from the KJV.

Just wanted to return to this. I know what you mean, as when I was a relatively new believer I found this kind of church helpful for me as it was so different from the surrounding world. Not the KJV part, though (I've never understood why anyone would think that a Bible commissioned by James Stewart - not a particularly devout believer, more a politician - would have greater value than others ).

That said, as I matured as a Christian I moved away from this type of church as I realized it was (1) very extrovert driven i.e. you were only a good Christian if you knocked on doors and aggressively witnessed to strangers - things that sent my anxiety sky high and literally made me ill, (2) had a fairly simple understanding of Scripture, particularly lacking the context of the knowledge of Bible times to correctly interpret things usually because (3) pastors tend to have fairly narrow educations all given by the same type of BJU or Tennessee Temple type of Bible college - if they went to seminary at all. You didn't see many who truly understood, or even cared about, the cultures of the ancient world when the Bible was written, for example - but those are crucial to a deeper understanding of the Bible.

To be fair, there are people who attended those churches many years ago who are still there and seem to be happy, and that is their right.

I guess what I am trying to say is that, if you are open to it, you and your DH will find there are many types of churches that preach faithfully.

But I would be wary of any that claim they are the only Christian church to have the right way.

[daina]

Originally Posted by FlyingBlueKiwi

I moved away from this type of church as I realized it was (1) very extrovert driven i.e. you were only a good Christian if you knocked on doors and aggressively witnessed to strangers - things that sent my anxiety sky high and literally made me ill

But I would be wary of any that claim they are the only Christian church to have the right way.

... I totally agree. My church goes out putting tracts on people's doors every week and I HATE it... there's a pressure that if you don't do it(where in the bible did they go knocking on ppls doors with the gospel?) you don't care about souls or something. Or even that if you don't do a good amount of the activities the church has going on(bible studies, parties, conferences, witnessing, outreach, services, ministries, etc.) you are just not a faithful christian. I also agree that as an invrovert, I am just completely overwhelmed with all the church. I get exhausted just thinking about going to church for 2 1/2 hrs on Sunday morning, then coming home just to take a nap and do it again. I've been feeling like a failure as a Christian because Sundays are my least favorite day of the week. My husband seems to be doing really well at this church but I just feel like I'm getting really down and depressed. I just get tied up because I realize that the underlying belief system is that the IFBs are the ones who have it right and everyone else is just... Unsaved? Doing it wrong? Not gonna get any rewards in heaven?

Thank you everyone for helping me to see these things. I don't know to approach it with DH. We've been talking a lot about discipline and he thinks I'm being rebellious against the faith because every "good godly christian" family we know spanks/spanked their kids. Since I don't want to go to the pastor or the pastors wife (or even to the woman who discipled me) for advice, he sees it as a distrust of authority.


What started as a post about the nursery has helped me to see there are bigger underlying issues and doubts that I have.

I especially agree that with my husband being called into ministry, we have to think long and hard about what kind of church we really want to be in because I look at the youth pastors wives(who are my age... 25-26)... And I think to myself "I just could NOT do this..."

Thanks y'all

[Redeemed]

I don't want to hijack the thread or what have you, but having recently come out of the Word of Faith movement, which IS a cult (think new age mysticism with a splash of Christianity), you don't want to go to an extreme like that either.

We do have church visitation at our church, but it's not mandatory for members to go. It's mostly the deacons who go and those who are in training for Evangelism Explosion (EE). I never did go on visitation while going through EE because I have horrible social anxiety.

[MegMarch]

As for how to discipline, I find it helpful to look at two things. 1. What I want for a relationship with my children in the long term. 2. How I believe people are supposed to be treated.

1. I want a relationship that in time ends up with us as equals, sisters in Christ, friends even. That doesn't mean I am permissive. It means I need to know my children as people though. And to understand the difference between developmental stages and personal choices. A toddler saying "no!" is a lot different than a teen saying the same As those "nos" are different, so will my responses to them be different. Being willing to step out of "society says you need to behave, so I will make you do it" and into "what is going on for YOU, how can our family work together" is important. And with the long term goals in mind, I can step out of the intensity of moments of frustration and gain perspective that helps me handle things with more calmness and, I hope, wisdom.

2. I don't think any person should be hurt in order to learn something, for example. I think God calls us to love our neighbors, even the ones sitting on our laps. When we look at how God asks and shows us to treat others, it is easier to see how to treat our children. The Bible doesn't have a lot of parenting specific information but there is a ton in there on interpersonal relationships

[daina]

Originally Posted by Redeemed

I don't want to hijack the thread or what have you, but having recently come out of the Word of Faith movement, which IS a cult (think new age mysticism with a splash of Christianity), you don't want to go to an extreme like that either.

We do have church visitation at our church, but it's not mandatory for members to go. It's mostly the deacons who go and those who are in training for Evangelism Explosion (EE). I never did go on visitation while going through EE because I have horrible social anxiety.

Thanks for the warning. We did a lot of research about the Word of Faith, NAR movement when we first came to the Lord( about 2 or 3 years ago)... which is partly why we have ended up in the Baptist churches. We are very leary of false doctrines and false movements, but I think in I have been led to a distrust of most other denominations other than my own... something which has caused division in friendships and made me feel a bit isolated from the Body of Christ at large. There ARE a lot of good things about our church, and the people are very genuine. I know that the reason the churches lean to the very conservative side is because they do not want to let in leaven, and they want to stay pure and true to their understanding of the Word.. right now I guess I am just coming to terms with some of the issues which I have observed, but not been able to identify or even really see clearly.

[CelticJourney]

Originally Posted by daina

Thanks for the warning. We did a lot of research about the Word of Faith, NAR movement when we first came to the Lord( about 2 or 3 years ago)... which is I think why we have ended up in the Baptist churches. We are very leary of false doctrines and false movements, but I think in I have been led to a distrust of most other denominations other than my own... something which has caused division in friendships and made me feel a bit isolated from the Body of Christ at large. There ARE a lot of good things about our church, and the people are very genuine... right now I guess I am just coming to terms with some of the issues which I have observed, but not been able to identify or even really see clearly.

I was raised Baptist and still consider myself one. Actually one of my great, great...grandfathers was imprisoned before the Revolution for acting as a Baptist minister and not paying the fine related to it. If you ever want to discuss GBD or theology with someone from that perspective, I'd be more than glad to do that with you.