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Old 08-19-2020, 06:38 AM   #61
knitlove
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Default Re: I thought grace baised parenting would show fruit

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingJuniper View Post
Anyway, what supports do you have in place right now? Do you have a family routine daily? A weekly schedule? Is it somewhere your girls can see it? What kind of boundaries do you have in place for yourself if your girl goes off at you? What kind of say do the girls have in what and how they learn? Environment for n which they learn?

(Hugs) you are in a hard season climbing uphill and it stinks. It’s okay to say it stinks.
Right now we have almost no supports in place. We were just starting to really have good connections and to get things in place when everything locked down in march. At that point the children didn't leave the house or yard for 3 months. We still had online coop Mondays and we kept up school, but all the rest of what had created the frame work for our secdule disappeared.


- I have to work on getti f the day going I will come back and finsih

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Old 08-19-2020, 07:35 AM   #62
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Default Re: I thought grace baised parenting would show fruit

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Originally Posted by SewingGreenMama View Post
A job being hard for ADHD, esp inattentive type is more then just the work. Laundry is more then just the physical aspects of picking up the clothes sorting etc.
If there has been any point of failure, (forgetting to move the laundry to the dryer and not having clothes for church, it stinking and needing to be redone, or forgetting to treat a stain ruining our favorite shirt) that emotion is tacked onto the task adding a brick we have to step over to do the laundry.
Then we shrink our favorite sweater we feel so cozy and pretty in. The emotions of loosing that sweater. The feeling of embarrassment, self-consciousness because we don't feel good in what we had to wear instead. The money lost if the need is great enough to replace it. The difficulties in getting the laundry folded and put away rather then piling up on the couch or chair. The embarrassment of anyone seeing that and starting to block it out.
Each of those different things is a brick in the wall of awful. Each time they happen another brick is added. So we not only have to actually physically do the work, and have to recon with the executive disfunction to manage the job in general which we deeply struggle with, we also have a heavy wall of emotions that are tacked on to the job.

There is a second video about how to get over the wall.
There is also a video on motivation. Honestly the whole channel has been gold to me. It's help me understand myself so much better and find tools to help get past things.
I suggest watching them with Early Bird and, only focusing on ONE task at one instance in time, "you struggled starting school yesterday" finding out what is in the wall of awful for her and helping her find ways to insert handholds and slowly shorten the wall.
It's a slow process.
A huge wall for me in laundry is there is pieces I don't know what to do with. I'm stuck on whether to store for later, sell, or donate. So the laundry is never "done". And every time i see the pile I can never full get rid of because I can't make those choices right now I feel like a failure and it makes doing laundry next time even harder.
Eventually I'll realize my mental health is more important, throw everything in a bag and take it to the thrift store. Then one item in there I'll regret getting rid of and it will make it harder to get rid of things next time.

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Jessica’s videos have helped me immensely

I feel the same about laundry. If it helps - I have a separate basket for the bits to give away. I put the loose pieces in this bag every time. It moves them
out of the way.

I also have a Michaels photo box for socks that are missing their buddy.
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Old 08-19-2020, 07:14 PM   #63
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Default Re: I thought grace baised parenting would show fruit

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Originally Posted by Sparrow View Post
Jessica’s videos have helped me immensely

I feel the same about laundry. If it helps - I have a separate basket for the bits to give away. I put the loose pieces in this bag every time. It moves them
out of the way.

I also have a Michaels photo box for socks that are missing their buddy.
I have a big bucket for socks. I wait until laundry is done before doing socks as it causes anxiety if I have to many unmatched pairs. I leave the missing buddies in there. I should have a bag. And if a sock stays in the bag too long put it in the rag bag for gross messes I'll just throw away after instead of washing.

I like the idea of a bag or basket for the pieces I can't decide on. I can bring it out occasionally and make decisions on the pieces I can.
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Old 08-19-2020, 08:10 PM   #64
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Default Re: I thought grace baised parenting would show fruit

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Originally Posted by WanderingJuniper View Post
Anyway, what supports do you have in place right now? Do you have a family routine daily? A weekly schedule? Is it somewhere your girls can see it? What kind of boundaries do you have in place for yourself if your girl goes off at you? What kind of say do the girls have in what and how they learn? Environment for n which they learn?

(Hugs) you are in a hard season climbing uphill and it stinks. It’s okay to say it stinks.
I have been having issues with out daily routine and scedule sience I stoped most of it so that I could pack and move across the contry, at Christmas 2018. Once we got moved I was unpacking and trying to just get my bearings. I didn't imedeatly restablish our family routne that we had. Which is what everyone told me to do, and I now know that it was the worst thing I could have done. I know that early bird does not accept relaxing sedule or guideline and the. Bringing them back. I should have kept the eat breakfast, brief clean and then something schoolish or all of school. I haven't gotten back to where she will help with cleaning anything at all because she didn't have to when we moved here so she doesn't think she ever should have to in this house.

The basic routine that I have been trying to get/ keep going. Breakfast then school that is it. Not cleaning no nothing.


I have been trying to come up with some weekly schedule. I still get groshries on Monday ( early bird has been staying home). Starting when we finished last school year we started doing art with my dad on Tuesday and Thursday. Saturday Dh and I get some cleaning done ( early bird go and hids and reads) Sunday we do church. That is it as far as scedule.

We have a weekly schedule in the board. But school dies get written up on it.

I don't have good if any boundries for when the girls go off. When Dh was working we had a hard boundry of they couldn't go down the hall yelling and if they got too loud ( where it could be heard though the doors) I would take them to the car and stay there with them untill they were calmed down.

When ever I try to talk to early bird then only answers i have never gotten out of her is she wants to read and she wants to learn science. it has been her answer sience she was 4. If I try to have her look a curriculum or talk about spacific things she goes back to she wants to read and learn about science. I didn't try to engage her in the talking and planning this year because I was over whelmed and she hasn't where worked with me when I have tried in the past. I completely dropped all of our writting curriculum because it was frustrating her.

I given them lots of opetins on where often early is out side or in her huggle pod. I have started trying to not let her do it under the table because she will get right by my feet and then if I move them she will be off complaining and freaking out because I 'kicked' her.

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Old 08-23-2020, 05:07 AM   #65
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Default Re: I thought grace baised parenting would show fruit

I feel odd suggesting this and it may be just too much to make happen once all the elements of this season are taken into consideration but what if you were the keeper of the books?

What I mean is sort of a first then kind of set up. First we have to eat, learn, clean (whatever “responsibilities” you need to get her on board with.) Then you may have your book until X time. At X time you retrieve the book. There will be pushback. Anything you do to reestablish more rhythm and routine and in teas participation will get push back but after a while of consistency could it change the senario for the better?
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Old 08-23-2020, 08:13 AM   #66
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Default Re: I thought grace baised parenting would show fruit

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Originally Posted by WanderingJuniper View Post
I feel odd suggesting this and it may be just too much to make happen once all the elements of this season are taken into consideration but what if you were the keeper of the books?

What I mean is sort of a first then kind of set up. First we have to eat, learn, clean (whatever “responsibilities” you need to get her on board with.) Then you may have your book until X time. At X time you retrieve the book. There will be pushback. Anything you do to reestablish more rhythm and routine and in teas participation will get push back but after a while of consistency could it change the senario for the better?
This is a good idea. It's about when/then.

First you ----- then you ------

This is what we are taught to do in school with kids who need this. We can have a visual for it. Start small -

Eat, read for X
Learn, read for X
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Old 08-23-2020, 09:05 AM   #67
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Default Re: I thought grace baised parenting would show fruit

That is basically what I do.

Except I can not let her read for a short amount of time. That doesn't work at all, just like sending her out side for a small amount of time doesn't work. Even though it is always one of the top suggestions.

The rule is no reading untill after school, and her school books are pushed to the end of the school day- and devied up so she gets a whole book at a time.

It mostly works if I am totally on my game but if things slip and I am not 100% on untill we are well into school then she will start reading something and then will throw a huge roadblock of a fit when I ask her to stop.



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Old 08-23-2020, 07:41 PM   #68
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Default Re: I thought grace baised parenting would show fruit

Books were always a huge problem for me too. Like, I’d hide one in the cabinet under the bathroom sink and go “to the bathroom” and whoops there went 45 minutes I was in the bathroom.

Have you tried meds or supplements for her? I don’t usually suggest or ask that but I’m.....I know with my depression, when it’s bad, I literally can not force myself to do anything. Like, I can sit there and say ‘exercise helps, take the kids for a walk’ but no amount of telling myself that or trying to force myself to do it actually makes it happen - I’m basically paralyzed by it. Once I started meds, and got them built up in my system, I was able to force myself to get up and go outside, which then helped me to feel better still, but I needed that extra help to get to that point. She may not be able to force herself to just do what needs to be done. If you haven’t tried supplements or meds it may be worth looking into.
And as always feel free to ignore anything that I say that isn’t helpful. I apologize if I’m not making sense - I’ve had a migraine all month.


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Old 08-23-2020, 08:43 PM   #69
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Default Re: I thought grace baised parenting would show fruit

We started her on add meds two months ago, maybe 3. And we had a couple of honey moon days, that were bizzar in that she didn't read at all except at bed time and she got everything done. I know her Dr will approve another increase on her meds but last month I asked to leave them the same I till September, because I couldn't face dealing more Dr appointments and more changes right then.

I know I need to get her into some counseling to try to help her angziety, but there really isn't much point untill she can do it in person. She really bearly answers the dr prescribing her add meds on the tela health visits ( another reason I put off more changes). If Covid doesn't get worse again they are suposed to start in peroan counseling visits in mid September ( but honistly it could be September a year from now)

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Old 08-28-2020, 03:57 PM   #70
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Default Re: I thought grace baised parenting would show fruit

Dh is about to say we need to throw down the towl and that grace based pare thing obviously hasn't worked and that we need to go back to something else. I don't think just leaving her alone in a room screaming is good but I honistly can't really point to how what I have been doing has worked.


I will see if he will read the eplosove child or one of that guy's other books with me but honistly I don't think Dh will buy in to it. Partly because he rmebers choosing to do thing and not so thing, so I don't think he is going to jsut accept the ' children do well when they can'. I also don't think he will agree to the just ignore things be there slave and eventually they might acknowledge you as a person and work with you.

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---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------

He was rightly pointing out that in any other place early bird would have been kicked out. And it is true school is even some foster family's would have kicked her out because they wouldn't out up with the way she behaves or the way her behavior affects the other child in the house.

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Old 08-28-2020, 04:35 PM   #71
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Default Re: I thought grace baised parenting would show fruit

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Also you're in the thick of it, your kids are by no means grown ...They're actually in the toughest ages of discipleship. The preschool years are hard but that has nothing on the tweens.
This is very true and. . . the teen years can, potentially, be the hardest years of them all. And the years right after that.

Grace based parenting is something you do because it is the right way to treat people, not because it "works."

One thing that helps me, sometimes, is I imagine what I would expect from the employees at a place that took my children. Say I enrolled them in a school or a place of therapy or childcare. What would I expect of them? And I try to fill that role. I distance my own personality just a tad to give myself some perspective.

In a situation like that, there would be a daily routine with a certain amount of flexibility. Yelling and punishment would be unacceptable. But there would be consequences, also.

I haven't read this version, I own and have read and re-read the teen version of this book. The teen version is immensely helpful, though. Maybe your library has it.

Parenting a Child Who Has Intense Emotions: Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills to Help Your Child Regulate Emotional Outbursts and Aggressive Behaviors



DBT is a sub-category of CBT. It is learning to accept that your child is doing the best she can, in her current circumstances and with her current skills set, while at the same time knowing that is it not acceptable for her to stay stuck. You accept that the person is doing the best that they can. And you help mark the path to move forward, communicating through words and actions that staying put isn't an option.

---------- Post added at 04:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:33 PM ----------

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I also don't think he will agree to the just ignore things be there slave and eventually they might acknowledge you as a person and work with you.
I don't agree with that, either. That is not grace-based parenting, that is being permissive with wishful thinking.

It is very easy to fall into that, with an explosive child. I get it. The consequences to the parent and family for drawing a line are severe. The line still has to be drawn.

Another excellent book is The Loving Push by Temple Grandin.
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Old 08-28-2020, 04:49 PM   #72
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Default Re: I thought grace baised parenting would show fruit

Agreeing that being their slave and hoping they someday acknowledge you as a person is not something found in either GBD or Plan B.

If she is screaming, I don’t see a problem leaving the room to save your sanity. She’s 11, this isn’t CIO or anything. It doesn’t sound like remaining in the room helps you or her. You aren’t withholding love if you do that. I have a very loud kid, mostly happy stims and over the years I’ve become very sensory defensive with loud and sudden noises. He’s very sensory defensive to other people’s noises of course. I love my headphones.

What does your DH want to do? Hitting her isn’t going to stop the screaming, it will likely intensify it. She’s a bit old to consider spanking. What do you think would happen if you and your dd2 left the room every time she starts screaming?

What would you consider to be “working”? If she screams less? That seems to be the number one issue from what you’ve shared. Do you want to brainstorm some ways to improve that? What kinds of things have you tried to improve emotional regulation?


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Old 08-28-2020, 04:49 PM   #73
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Default Re: I thought grace baised parenting would show fruit

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Originally Posted by knitlove View Post
Dh is about to say we need to throw down the towl and that grace based pare thing obviously hasn't worked and that we need to go back to something else. I don't think just leaving her alone in a room screaming is good but I honistly can't really point to how what I have been doing has worked.


I will see if he will read the eplosove child or one of that guy's other books with me but honistly I don't think Dh will buy in to it. Partly because he rmebers choosing to do thing and not so thing, so I don't think he is going to jsut accept the ' children do well when they can'. I also don't think he will agree to the just ignore things be there slave and eventually they might acknowledge you as a person and work with you.

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---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:56 PM ----------

He was rightly pointing out that in any other place early bird would have been kicked out. And it is true school is even some foster family's would have kicked her out because they wouldn't out up with the way she behaves or the way her behavior affects the other child in the house.

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At her age I don’t see letting her scream by herself as punitive or unacceptable. She has to come to a realization that she is in fact responsible for her responses, and it could be that you trying to do things to help her is actually interfering with that. So if dh wants to try “going to your room until you can speak/behave reasonably“, then at her age I would try it
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Old 08-28-2020, 05:07 PM   #74
knitlove
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Default Re: I thought grace baised parenting would show fruit

Everything I am seeing on the plan b Facebook page reads as very very permissive. Today someone was talking about an older child physically attacking a younger child and all the reponces were how you need to talk to the older child more and do your best to keep the yonger one away. There were no lines to draw.


Can I look at those books and see that there is a line to draw because that is not what I am seeing in the Facebook group. I read the book years ago and honistly I am not looking forom reading it again from the Facebook group.

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---------- Post added at 07:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 PM ----------

I don't know exactly what he wants to do. Something along the lines of if she scremas at all the answer is just no.

But I don't see how to make that work and get any school accomplished.

My working would he if she has an issue she talks to me about it a volume that dh can't hear(on the other side of the house though tow closed doors and headphones). That she will talk about it with me untill we come to a ressoution. Not stomping off yelling that I am wrong ( the best one thus week was 20 min of yelling that a squarthat has a side of 5' is 5squsre feet - I just closed it and trued to go over it the next day and was treated with 15 of screaming that me using manupulstives that I made and working with her wasn't math because it wasn't a work sheet- after I bribed her with chocolate milk 4 hours latter to work with me she imedeatly rembered how to do it as the gave me a rant about how I must think she is an idot that I need to explain this to her). I really really am quite flexible in what is expected for school but I need her to realize that ocasionally she actually doenst already know everything.


The every day not school related is really similar. I need her to if there is an issue not start screaming stomping off but express what here issue is and see if we can come to a solution.

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---------- Post added at 07:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Love_Is_Patient View Post
At her age I don’t see letting her scream by herself as punitive or unacceptable. She has to come to a realization that she is in fact responsible for her responses, and it could be that you trying to do things to help her is actually interfering with that. So if dh wants to try “going to your room until you can speak/behave reasonably“, then at her age I would try it
Do we just leave her there indefinitely? If she has her kendel she is perfectly happy to nevaer interact with is. If I really out no requirement on it she will ignore us all day and not come out for food. She would probably come out at bedtime because she wants us to stand by her bed for her to go to sleep.

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Old 08-28-2020, 05:10 PM   #75
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Default Re: I thought grace baised parenting would show fruit

Holy cow! I was interrupted then came back and finished my post. There are now a whack of new posts. I'm going to go ahead and post and hope it's not too repetitive or way off track.

* * * * *

I'm sorry things are so hard right now. I have tried for the past couple weeks to figure out how to phrase this. I apologize if it does not come across as intended and that you can hear my heart in this. I think you're an amazing mum and have walked through challenge after challenge with amazing love for your girls.

I've wondered as I've been reading this thread if perhaps you're locked into a cycle of being afraid of early bird's outbursts and underparenting (discipline-wise) to avoid triggering another melt down? The thing is, she's searching for those limits and boundaries, even if she swings wildly at them when they're put in place, and she's going to keep escalating until some sort of equilibrium is reached.

When you mentioned your dh hitting his limit, it actually helped me focus on what I've been thinking ... are you familiar with Barbara Colorosa? She talks about permissive / jellyfish parenting, authoritative / backbone parenting and authoritarian / brickwall parenting. The one you're aiming for is authoritative / backbone. Maybe if you talked about that with your dh? It sounds like you're a little closer to jellyfish at the moment (which I get) and he's thinking brickwall will fix things right.now.

Sometimes we can find ourselves so stuck that we can't see past just getting through the day and dreading the next. I get that and between life for everyone now and the major changes your family has experienced in the last year or two, you've had a double whammy. Rather than try to do all the things and tackle everything, try to agree on finding a couple boundaries / expectations to address and working on those, knowing there will be huge feelings and reactions that will almost definitely increase dramatically in the beginning.

I know that there are a lot of things happening developmentally and wrt mental health and that there won't be an easy, fast solution. I just sense that what you're trudging through right now isn't working for anyone, including early bird, and something has to change. I found Barbara Colorosa's writings when I was in teachers' college, long before children. I worked in special education, mental health classes and regular classes and truly found her approach practical and applicable in all of those settings. She influenced my parenting long before I found gcm. I was given "Kids are Worth it" when I was pregnant with my eldest and have re-read it over the years. If there are issues with her books that conflict with gentle parenting, I'd be shocked but ymmv.

I'm sorry you and your dh aren't on the same page at the moment but am praying you can come together and find agreement (and progress).
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