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Unprepared for Parenting (Ezzos, Pearls, Etc.) *Public* Support and information for those affected by the Ezzos, the Pearls, and other punitive and adversarial methods of child-rearing. A public forum. Before posting here, please read this sticky and keep guideline 23 in mind:
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09-27-2006, 06:42 PM | #16 |
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Re: Somethings' bothering me
The Pearls have a lot of good stuff to say. I think they portray a warmth and understanding toward children that (for instance) Ezzo lacks. And even apart from that warmth, I find there is a lot to agree with in their articles.
But as you point out, there is also some very troubling material. I think the "grace" differential that you observe is the difference between the responsibility/accountability of a Christian teacher and leader and compassion towards a sheep who gets led astray by a shepherd who operates without accountability. :/ I find it no end of frustrating. I'm glad you found an insight that helped you. I agree with you that relationship is very important. Also when I look out over the families I know that have been successful over the years, there is one common thread that I see: parents who are very involved with their kids, who never give up, who keep their heads in the ballgame. (And it is tempting to lose one's focus as the kids get older.) |
09-27-2006, 06:47 PM | #17 | |
Rose Garden
My kid shoots laser beams from his hands
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Re: Somethings' bothering me
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09-27-2006, 07:38 PM | #18 | ||
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Re: Somethings' bothering me
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Also, I feel that it is correct to train them in advance for something you know will be an issue, or if you see the beginnings of something. That is being proactive! You can do that without spanking. What it comes back to in their instance, is that they believe using the rod is fundamentally commanded by the Bible, so for them (not defending them, I'm putting myself in their shoes) trying to find non-punitive ideas is *MOOT*. Naturally, they would say it is you who is the false teacher. (But you know this.) I am sort of unusual in that I don't base my view of spanking on what I think the Bible says, but I'm sorry to say that if I did, I would conclude that I must spank at least some of the time. I really don't think the non-spanking exegesis holds much water. Although, to be fair, I tire of reading the big paragraphs of possible definitions for every word, so maybe I haven't given it as thorough attention as I could. I'm not trying to be antagonistic...I decided to start this thread when I read the goodbye thread from fruitofthewomb. I have thought a lot of times I should just leave because I see a lot of flaws in non-punitive philosophy, although I am still 90% non-punitive. So, I thought I would dialog about some things and see if it leads me anywhere good. Oh, and this is kind of a tag-on, but some of the articles I really liked were "Low Self-Esteme", "Fear of Bees" and I loved "A Husband for Laura Rose". I think Fear of Bees was a brilliant angle on de-sensitizing a child to a fear. I also think it shows that they are not unreasonable, i.e, "Yeah, throw that child in their bedroom, close the door and if she screams there's bees in her room, don't give in! Just hold the door shut until she conks out!" I think A Husband for Laura Rose shows the love of a grandfather beautifully! And it's funny, too. Quote:
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09-27-2006, 07:56 PM | #19 | |||
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Re: Somethings' bothering me
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Elizabeth "Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19 |
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09-27-2006, 08:16 PM | #20 | ||||||
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09-27-2006, 08:24 PM | #21 | |
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Re: Somethings' bothering me
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09-27-2006, 08:26 PM | #22 | |||
Rose Garden
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Re: Somethings' bothering me
I rember reading the fear of bees and I found it disturbing but couldn't remember exactly why.. From a fear of bees
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Over time I have read boh TTUAC and no greater joy volume 1 and 2 and have visited their daughters site. I do believe he loved his kids and in his mind is correct I also think hes grossly missing the mark and his advice is full of wholes and sets up kids for failure. Hes view of kids as sinners and manuplaive members needing their wills broken. I frankly find his writing toxic I have had horrible relationships with my own DD and husband after reading his stuff becasue its just that toxic. Deanna
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Deanna wife to Shawn since 2001 mom to a young adult Cecilia , tween Margaret and three I will hold one day in heaven. |
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09-27-2006, 08:53 PM | #23 |
Rose Garden
Why thank you, it is naturally blue...
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Re: Somethings' bothering me
I wanted to comment on the Husband for Lara Rose article b/c when i read it awhile ago it really bothered me. His affection for his grand-daughter is sweet. But the perfectionistic standards he holds up for her future husband made me mad - he even says at one point that if the young man had been involved in certain sins God can forgive him and use him - but that those sins make him not good enough to be her husband. He basically said that his standard is higher than God's, and i thought it was really harsh and judgemental and lacking in grace.
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09-27-2006, 08:56 PM | #24 | ||
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Re: Somethings' bothering me
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This upsets me SO much as my son IS afraid of bees ATM...why ON EARTH would I NOT comfort him???? Why would I send him to the LAUNDRY??? Why is cuddling him rewarding his fears - sorry but that is just STUPID!!!!!!! Cuddling him is COMFORTING him in his fears -- If I was afraid should I go to the laundry?????? (apart from that I don't know much about the topic...) |
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09-27-2006, 08:57 PM | #25 | |
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Re: Somethings' bothering me
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Let me share something. I was fully in Pearl mode when I read this account. And, after I read it, was when my blood ran cold. Even still while I revered and respected MP (at the time). He was describing the "training" of a little girl. It was in the newsletter. It started when she was born . .. . .she cried a lot; non-stop. Now, no attempt was made to find out *why*. All that was said was that "you're going to have trouble with this one." As I kept reading, I started crying. He was describing a little girl with such clear symptoms of a disorder that even *I* could see it. As he described this little girl, my mind said, immediately, "Wow! She has some sort of sensory integration disorder! And reflux!" (This was before he started to describe her "training"). She had colic and she had sensory issues, and what seemed *clearly* like autistic tendencies. What finally broke me was when he wrote about how she would constantly take off her shoes, even in the coldest of weather. And he described her training (so she would 'learn' to keep on her shoes). And it was still all wrapped up in "loving" and "lovingly" and "special", etc. And I remember this cold, cold feeling. A chill ran across my body, like a ghost had just passed. The treatment of this little girl - - -over a period of *so* many years --- if this had been an animal, they would have surely been prosecuted and the animal taken away post-haste! But, no one saw it. . . no one cared. .. . and the *words* of love may have been used. . ..but the "love" that was being described was hardly that. No one loved that little girl. That special little girl, that doesn't even know the hell she's in, because she's been told it is love. It was MP himself, from an article he wrote, that started me *really* looking at him and his 'methods'. I do not attack the man (he will have to answer to God). I have a *huge* problem, though, with the heresy he teaches. He puts himself on equal, if not higher, level than God. . .as in, his standards are higher than God's. That is straight-out blasphemy, and I am told by God himself in His Word to stay away from people like that, no matter the "good" they may preach. |
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09-28-2006, 06:50 AM | #26 |
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Peace be with you.
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Location: the sweet sunny south
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Re: Somethings' bothering me
The fears we all feel for our children can make us vulnerable to bad advice.
My deepest concern for those who dip their toes in the Pearls' books and articles is this: there is poison in that brew. Part of the poison is in hidden premises that, if you dig them out, turn out to be false. But if you are just reading along you notice you're starting with Common Sense Point A, but by the end of the article you're at Bizarre Punishment Point W. But it may not be possible to see where the train jumped the tracks, especially if fear for your child is making you feel desperate and open to something new. Parents with a normal emotional make-up, in my opinion, cannot manage to be sweet and compassionate in combination with the training sessions and bizarre punishments the Pearls are fans of. The Pearls portray those two things in side-by-side combination, but I find that real people who are dealing with a full deck, emotionally speaking, can't do that. People with normal emotional makeup will tend to be either Pearl-failures--unable to stomach the training or to be dispassionate (as recommended) about the punishments [and of course the articles and testimonials are designed to increase your capacity to stomach it or to break your natural resistance to the punishments]... --or on the other hand, normal parents will be love-and-compassion failures and who are unable to honestly FEEL Pearl's folksy level of "shucks, ain't he a cutie-pie, though" goodwill and compassion toward their children when they are requiring so many stinging licks and bizarre punishments to change their children's will and emotions. You find them lamenting this to one another. Every mistake that I made in parenting my children was an over-reaction based on fear--fear that if I didn't get a grip on this RIGHT NOW, my child was headed for big trouble. I was leaving out God's work and I was leaving out the natural maturation process. Now in my parenting, having raised two to adulthood, so that I know my fears aren't founded, I know the secret is the relationship and the willingness to walk beside your child every step of the way. Never, ever giving up. You don't have to be harsh and you don't have to punish them, but you DO need to guide them, help them, set boundaries and limits and be consistent. You have to be their first and best resource person. It's tiring. I would say, don't give ground to your fears. You have lots of time and God does His best work with sinners. |
09-28-2006, 07:00 AM | #27 | |
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Re: Somethings' bothering me
Kathy, I just wanted to say thank you, and how much I appreciate your wisdom as a mother of older children.
This has been so true in my experience thus far... Quote:
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09-28-2006, 07:29 AM | #28 | |
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09-28-2006, 08:12 AM | #29 | ||
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09-28-2006, 08:23 AM | #30 | |
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