Very troubled by this sibling issue..... need some pointers

[Elspeth]

I just want to say thank you for posting this. This is practically our house right now, right down to the ages and scenarios. For me, I feel like all the teaching moments aren't doing any good because the negative behavior doesn't stop. It's like I'm talking or demonstrating to a brick wall, so what's the point? It's very defeating.

I will have to try the separate toy basket, one on one mommy time, and things like that.

[MamaD]

Absolutely, the new ideas I got were special own toys (which I've just implemented) and one-on-one mommy time (which I still need to work on). And continuous teaching, over and over again, even if it feels like it's doing nothing at all, and preferably very patiently if I can hold up my anger about the incidence.

I have a related but haven't-been-brought-up question:
What to do when the 3 year old (#1) knowingly and intentionally teach or tell the 19 months (#2) old to do something wrong?

Examples are: 3 year old saying to 19 month old
- "#2, can you blow your milk in the cup?" --while demonstrating blowing into the milk cup. Both boys starts blowing, making big mess and laughing...
- "#2, can you pee on the carpet?" ---19 months old is completely toilet trained and upon older brother's suggestion, he immediately pulls pants down and starts peeing on carpet. #1 laughs and #2 laughs and both boys laughing hysterically while #2 starts peeing more on the carpet.
- "#2 can you jump off the couch like this?" -- rule in the house is no standing on the couch. #1 not only stands up on the couch but jumps off and tells #2 to do it. #2 of course follows....

Then there are times and things that #1 won't dare to do himself but will tell #2 to do. For example, "#2, can you dump all your cereal on the floor?" #2 then dumps the whole bowl onto the floor. I get angry, takes #2's bowl away whiling telling him "we don't dump food, we eat our food". And now #2 is totally upset with a big tantrum, feeling like he was innocent, and I know he is because he wouldn't have done it or even thought of it if #1 hasn't suggested it. This happens a lot when #1 tells #2 to do something completely inappropriate, which causes #2 to lose his things or privileges (food, drink cup, toy, etc). The only thing I could possibly do to stop #2's inappropriate behavior is by taking the thing away (food, drink cup, toy, etc) but I feel really bad for #2 because it's not his fault (while he is so young to tell right from wrong, and that he is only trying to be like older brother and do what older brother said). It really is unfair for #2 and I feel so bad for him for losing his stuff and being sad and upset. But regarding #2, I don't know what else to do besides taking the pencil away to stop him from drawing on the wall or take his milk away to stop him from spitting, spilling, playing with it. And regarding #1, I'm even more troubled about what it is that I can do with #1 for knowingly teaching #2 the wrong things. Any suggestion on both sides?

I really feel like #1's behavior deserves a consequence or punishment, but I don't know what it could be to be appropriate and most importantly effective. If you have suggestions on how to address this behavior please tell me.

It really makes me very very angry because all #1 has to do is sit there and move his mouth, then I'm in trouble having to deal with #2 learning and doing the wrong things for days and weeks from the moment #1 gives him the idea. And #2 is in trouble for what I consider to be innocent when he tries to copy, learn from, or do as #1 says, and later on finds it to be quiet fun to do. So I'm constantly taking things away from #2 and getting tangled with #2's tantrum for having things taken away from him.

[MarynMunchkins]

Older siblings!

Have them both make amends as they are able. Both are old enough (mostly ) to use a rag to soak up pee or wipe spilled milk. And plan some sensory play they can do together - blowing bubbles in the tub, digging in a sand/rice box, finger painting with pudding.

Siblings work as partners in crime for a long time. Boys are messy partners in crime.

[WingsOfTheMorning]

Small children just don't learn very fast sometimes. You can't force a three year old to have more impulse control than a three year old has.

Obviously, there is the option of coming up with a bad enough punishment that you scare them into never doing that again, but I don't want fear of me to be their motivation.

[HadassahSukkot]

My two are 18 months apart. This is our life every day if I don't keep an ear peeled and an eye half open while I sleep.

For the most part, it takes logistic planning BEFORE I sleep, and having safe toys out. Wii is off limits until daddy gets home, even for mommy. . . this way I can't be caught at nap time and them justify that I broke a rule set for them, when they think it also applies to me. So, even rule all around.

No snacks at breakfast, they are for after lunch. Must self moderate. Same for soda/juice.

We get our socks and shoes on BEFORE we go out the door. The only exception is if I've run out of time and can do it quicker in the car while they're tied in one place. Very rare. (how do two kids run around so much and be in so many places at once? it defies the laws of relativity!)

IF I am awake enough at night and know the kids will be up early, I now set out a water bottle that they can share (JD knows how to open and close them on his own now), cereal (this will be changing with our new diet), or bread that they can get.

I make sure the TV can be turned on (safe channel like Disney/Disney Jr) when they wake up between 6 and 7, so that I can be assured they don't start the dangerous play before the cereal or bread is all gone. This gives me about 30-60 safe minutes to pry my eyes open with toothpicks if need be, and crawl to the kitchen to begin our day.

IF the older of the two is the one instigating the mischief, I find tasks (or games) he can do at my side away from the younger one. This way all fights or instigation stops before it starts.

If the younger is the one instigating (snatching toys, taunting, making his brother chase him) - I take HIM with me, and we watch something together.

If THEY make a mess of toys, they get to clean it up. If THEY throw their food, THEY get to clean it up. I physically cannot do it. They have to help. Mama passed out in the floor due to all the up/down is just not an option.

While JD is in kindergarten, I find things for TB to do alone and with me. This way when JD gets home, he's tuckered enough he won't instigate TOO much trouble. He'll try, but I'll be rested enough I can hop on the spot and separate and find tasks for them.

I know at 2 (almost 3) and 4 1/2, there isn't a whole lot of impulse control and that a lot of "really fun things to do!!" are all about immaturity and cause and effect. Some of it is to see how fast I will come running. Some is to see "What happens if we do _______?" And some of it isn't even thought about before they do it. They just do it because it's there... and it looked like fun.

If I slow down enough from the point of freaking out over that scary no impulse control, no fear action the kids did - I remember I did some of the same stuff, because it was so interesting and adults were allowed, but kids were not allowed to do it. So we tried it.

I remember stories where I "always wanted to do" something forbidden to children, and my grandparents let me, to see what I would do and my reaction to it - like pushing the rear view mirror or side mirrors on the car... or fixing my own plate and serving myself vs someone doing it for me.

And when I remember that, I remember how I felt that everyone swore I couldn't do something on my own, and I did - and how shocked they were that I'd worked it out ok. So I remember to set rules within reason, let the kids try things out safely, but when my nerves are shot, have an agreement that this is where we stop and they can try when papa gets home. This way it's not completely forbidden but "later".

OK, they want to jump around - let's have dance hour. But not on mama's couch. The can dance anywhere else in the room.

Lots and lots of scripting of things like "hands are not for hitting", "whoever had the toy first, keeps it unless they let you play with it."

It takes time, and I'm sure you'll find the boys adjust themselves together and as more impulse control comes, less issues like this.

For now, hide all the crayons, pencils, markers, pens and such if that's the problem. Out of sight. It'll be a pain for you, but when they can be supervised, they can come down again.

If one is scripting the other to misbehave, begin talking about looking out for each other and working together to HELP each other, vs finding ways to hurt each other. Maybe find some playful tasks they have to help each other with, like cleaning up together, bathing together, the sand box, bubbles, helping you put the laundry in the wash or in the basket/on the line - and so on.

Once they build that basic relationship of helpers rather than mischief makers out to one up each other with who can do the scarier/worst thing.

It will not happen overnight, but a 30 minute stretch here, a hour there... and you'd be surprised how things change in the long run.

[ReedleBeetle]

I want to talk about what you were saying about the double seat and scooting to the middle. I would script him every time with something like, "I'm really wanting my own space right now brother. There is another seat in this location." That is what he is saying when he scoots to the middle....but he is 3. No one should be required to have someone in their space if they don't want them there. It is a boundaries issue, and personally, I want my son to have nice, strong boundaries. I didn't have them and still struggle to know where they are. I don't think he is trying to be rude as much as he is saying "I don't want my space invaded." If you have 2 of those double seats, you could always assign each of them one and then when they want to, they can invite the other one over into their own space.

[Dovenoir]

This will be our age interval too.
Posted via Mobile Device