Permissiveness or GBD?

illinoismommy · 01-24-2006, 01:30 PM

What is the difference between permissiveness and GBD? I have read that permissiveness produces children who don't respect their parents and don't have much respect for boundaries.

ArmsOfLove · 01-24-2006, 02:05 PM

Actually, that is not true at all. Permissiveness usually produces children who push for boundaries because children need boundaries to feel safe, but some children are not high needers of strict boundaries and can do fine in a permissive environment. Typically, though, when you have more than one, or a less easy going child, permissiveness isn't going to help you at all. Permissiveness is the opposite end of the spectrum from Punitive and, just like a child who is easy going and a people pleaser may need only a few spankings before they change behavior, thus making some people think spankings work, Permissiveness can *work* as well.

GBD is Grace-Based Discipline and it speaks to an entirely different paradigm from the one that says you're either punitive or permissive. It rejects the extremes of both while providing a middle ground that is both kind and firm.

You can read more about it at my website http://www.aolff.org and in the GD forum here.

Cheyenne · 01-24-2006, 02:07 PM

I came to GCM and started learning GBD to stop being so permissive.

CelticJourney · 01-24-2006, 03:14 PM

I think that the key difference between permissiveness and GBD is the D - discipline. Permissive parenting leaves the child on his own and his insecurity over having no one to help and protect him/her makes them act out, usually out of fear and insecurity. Assuming we agree that discipline means teaching, we as parents have a variety of ways to teach our children what they need to know. Punitive discipline teaches them to not do or to do certain things because they have learned to fear punishment and pain. GBD teaches children to do or not to do certain things because we have taught they the reasons why as their maturity allows, have helped them find ways to comply and modeled appropriate behavior and grace to them.

Permissive parenting says 'don't hit, I mean it don't hit, please, please stop hitting....' (they don't stop hitting)
Punitive parenting says 'dont' hit or I will hit you" (they stop hitting to avoid pain)
GBD parenting says 'don't hit because it is unkind and God has taught us to be kind to one another. If you can't control your hitting, I will remove you so that you are not tempted to hit and help you calm down.' (they stop hitting because they either understand or because the parent has stepped in to prevent the hitting)

Crystal, what do you think? Is that an accurate symmary?

ArmsOfLove · 01-24-2006, 07:04 PM

illinoismommy · 01-24-2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcollins

I think that the key difference between permissiveness and GBD is the D - discipline. Permissive parenting leaves the child on his own and his insecurity over having no one to help and protect him/her makes them act out, usually out of fear and insecurity. Assuming we agree that discipline means teaching, we as parents have a variety of ways to teach our children what they need to know. Punitive discipline teaches them to not do or to do certain things because they have learned to fear punishment and pain. GBD teaches children to do or not to do certain things because we have taught they the reasons why as their maturity allows, have helped them find ways to comply and modeled appropriate behavior and grace to them.

Permissive parenting says 'don't hit, I mean it don't hit, please, please stop hitting....' (they don't stop hitting)
Punitive parenting says 'dont' hit or I will hit you" (they stop hitting to avoid pain)
GBD parenting says 'don't hit because it is unkind and God has taught us to be kind to one another. If you can't control your hitting, I will remove you so that you are not tempted to hit and help you calm down.' (they stop hitting because they either understand or because the parent has stepped in to prevent the hitting)

Crystal, what do you think? Is that an accurate symmary?

Yeah! I like that. There is still authority and effectiveness but its positive reinforcement

Cheyenne · 01-24-2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elcollins

Permissive parenting leaves the child on his own and his insecurity over having no one to help and protect him/her makes them act out, usually out of fear and insecurity.

Thankfully I was never even remotely that permissive.

01-25-2006, 03:48 PM

It helps me to understanding punitive/permissive in terms of feelings --

-Punitive parenting makes a child feel bad in order to learn

-Permissive parenting does anything, even withholding discipline, to avoid a child's bad feelings, asking the child for "permission" to parent them

-GBD teaches the child, at an age-appropriate level, to meet the standard. Feelings can be respected and reflected, but are not used as a tool for manipulation or fear (by either the parent or the child).

LadybugSam · 01-26-2006, 05:50 PM

Robin, thank you for that simplified answer, i'll try to remember that when people ask me about my parenting.

bliss · 01-29-2006, 07:59 PM

Permissive is the mama with a five year old about to jump off the second-story eave of the house saying, "Now Joey, think about the consequenses of your actions. Is jumping off the roof a good choice?" (true life example from my neighbor all through high school and the reason why it took me so long to even consider non-punitive discipline - I thought all "positive discipline" looked like that bozo and her hellion son who, now btw, is sadly in jail.)

illinoismommy · 01-30-2006, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bliss

Permissive is the mama with a five year old about to jump off the second-story eave of the house saying, "Now Joey, think about the consequenses of your actions. Is jumping off the roof a good choice?" (true life example from my neighbor all through high school and the reason why it took me so long to even consider non-punitive discipline - I thought all "positive discipline" looked like that bozo and her hellion son who, now btw, is sadly in jail.)

Me too! I know three grown "children" from the same family who were raised permissively and it does not look well for them..........

Heather Micaela · 01-31-2006, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illinoismommy

Quote:

Originally Posted by bliss

Permissive is the mama with a five year old about to jump off the second-story eave of the house saying, "Now Joey, think about the consequenses of your actions. Is jumping off the roof a good choice?" (true life example from my neighbor all through high school and the reason why it took me so long to even consider non-punitive discipline - I thought all "positive discipline" looked like that bozo and her hellion son who, now btw, is sadly in jail.)

sadly I resisted GBD for the same reason, but one you see the difference, it makes all the sense in the world

Me too! I know three grown "children" from the same family who were raised permissively and it does not look well for them..........

Joanne · 02-02-2006, 07:39 AM

It's really the wrong question.

GBD is *grace* *based* *discipline*. One of the tenents of it is a lack of phsyical and arbitrary punishment, but that's not what defines it.

If it's permissive, it's not discipline. The problem is that people hear (or observe) a lack of traditional punishment and they filter all normal child behavior through their own issues. A gbd'ed child who pushes is seen as "out of control" while one who is spanked is seen as normal and in need of a spanking.

GBD is firm, non punitive and relationship based.

02-08-2006, 01:45 PM

Wow, I never even realized there was such a difference. Nor have I heard permissivness summed up so well. I am coming from punitive paenting and fear that I will swing to far to the other side. This has helped me see a little more clearly about what GBD really is. Thank you...

joyfulmomof2 · 08-06-2006, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Munchkingirl

Wow, I never even realized there was such a difference. Nor have I heard permissivness summed up so well. I am coming from punitive paenting and fear that I will swing to far to the other side. This has helped me see a little more clearly about what GBD really is. Thank you...

Me too.

01-24-2006, 01:30 PM	#1
illinoismommy Rose Garden Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 25,657	Permissiveness or GBD? What is the difference between permissiveness and GBD? I have read that permissiveness produces children who don't respect their parents and don't have much respect for boundaries. __________________ Mommy to: Ds (9.5), Dd (7), Ds2 (6), and Ds3 (4.5).

01-24-2006, 02:05 PM	#2
ArmsOfLove Rose Garden Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 79,607	Re: Permissiveness or GBD? Actually, that is not true at all. Permissiveness usually produces children who push for boundaries because children need boundaries to feel safe, but some children are not high needers of strict boundaries and can do fine in a permissive environment. Typically, though, when you have more than one, or a less easy going child, permissiveness isn't going to help you at all. Permissiveness is the opposite end of the spectrum from Punitive and, just like a child who is easy going and a people pleaser may need only a few spankings before they change behavior, thus making some people think spankings work, Permissiveness can work as well. GBD is Grace-Based Discipline and it speaks to an entirely different paradigm from the one that says you're either punitive or permissive. It rejects the extremes of both while providing a middle ground that is both kind and firm. You can read more about it at my website http://www.aolff.org and in the GD forum here. __________________ Crystal "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." Maya Angelou

01-24-2006, 02:07 PM	#3
Cheyenne Rose Garden Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,088	Re: Permissiveness or GBD? I came to GCM and started learning GBD to stop being so permissive. __________________ Julie Wife to Ray anniversary 08/24/1996 & 08/06/2010 Learning how to eat Paleo. And mom to Joshua 16 yr old ds (SID, borderline anxiety disorder, High Functioning on the Autistic spectrum) Kaitlyn 13yr old dd Emily 11 yrs old dd (SID) Bethany 9 yrs old dd Homeschooling mom

01-24-2006, 03:14 PM	#4
CelticJourney Administrator Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 34,601	Re: Permissiveness or GBD? I think that the key difference between permissiveness and GBD is the D - discipline. Permissive parenting leaves the child on his own and his insecurity over having no one to help and protect him/her makes them act out, usually out of fear and insecurity. Assuming we agree that discipline means teaching, we as parents have a variety of ways to teach our children what they need to know. Punitive discipline teaches them to not do or to do certain things because they have learned to fear punishment and pain. GBD teaches children to do or not to do certain things because we have taught they the reasons why as their maturity allows, have helped them find ways to comply and modeled appropriate behavior and grace to them. Permissive parenting says 'don't hit, I mean it don't hit, please, please stop hitting....' (they don't stop hitting) Punitive parenting says 'dont' hit or I will hit you" (they stop hitting to avoid pain) GBD parenting says 'don't hit because it is unkind and God has taught us to be kind to one another. If you can't control your hitting, I will remove you so that you are not tempted to hit and help you calm down.' (they stop hitting because they either understand or because the parent has stepped in to prevent the hitting) Crystal, what do you think? Is that an accurate symmary? __________________ Elizabeth "Truth without love is divisive and hurtful & love without truth is anemic"--Pastor Estep Arise, cry out in the night...pour out your heart like water in the presence of the Lord; Lift up your hands to him for the lives of your children..; Lamentations 2:19

01-24-2006, 07:04 PM	#5
ArmsOfLove Rose Garden Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 79,607	Re: Permissiveness or GBD? __________________ Crystal "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." Maya Angelou

01-25-2006, 03:48 PM	#8
raisa Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Permissiveness or GBD? It helps me to understanding punitive/permissive in terms of feelings -- -Punitive parenting makes a child feel bad in order to learn -Permissive parenting does anything, even withholding discipline, to avoid a child's bad feelings, asking the child for "permission" to parent them -GBD teaches the child, at an age-appropriate level, to meet the standard. Feelings can be respected and reflected, but are not used as a tool for manipulation or fear (by either the parent or the child).

01-26-2006, 05:50 PM	#9
LadybugSam Deactivated ladybug, ladybug fly away home Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central California Posts: 18,187	Re: Permissiveness or GBD? Robin, thank you for that simplified answer, i'll try to remember that when people ask me about my parenting.

01-29-2006, 07:59 PM	#10
bliss Rose Garden NEUROSPICY! Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Other worlds than these Posts: 13,430	Re: Permissiveness or GBD? Permissive is the mama with a five year old about to jump off the second-story eave of the house saying, "Now Joey, think about the consequenses of your actions. Is jumping off the roof a good choice?" (true life example from my neighbor all through high school and the reason why it took me so long to even consider non-punitive discipline - I thought all "positive discipline" looked like that bozo and her hellion son who, now btw, is sadly in jail.) __________________ Me, The Surveyor, The Truck Driver, The Landscaper, The SAHM, The Grocery Manager, The Gamer, The Gardener, The Home Improvement Manager, and The Grandkids

02-02-2006, 07:39 AM	#13
Joanne Deactivated Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,066	Re: Permissiveness or GBD? It's really the wrong question. GBD is grace based *discipline*. One of the tenents of it is a lack of phsyical and arbitrary punishment, but that's not what defines it. If it's permissive, it's not discipline. The problem is that people hear (or observe) a lack of traditional punishment and they filter all normal child behavior through their own issues. A gbd'ed child who pushes is seen as "out of control" while one who is spanked is seen as normal and in need of a spanking. GBD is firm, non punitive and relationship based.

02-08-2006, 01:45 PM	#14
Munchkingirl Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Permissiveness or GBD? Wow, I never even realized there was such a difference. Nor have I heard permissivness summed up so well. I am coming from punitive paenting and fear that I will swing to far to the other side. This has helped me see a little more clearly about what GBD really is. Thank you...

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