"Is This Punitive?" is missing the point of GBD

[Chaos Coordinator]

i dont know about in my own home, with my own kids, or with gbd since i am rather new at it, but i know when i was working in childcare i absolutely could. not. stand. squabbles over toys. the toy was immediately removed and the children were sent away to find something else to play with. i dont know where that falls on the line of whether or not its punitive. cause i'm still one of those that is constantly having to ask.

[SweetCaroline]

Originally Posted by jessisblessed

i dont know about in my own home, with my own kids, or with gbd since i am rather new at it, but i know when i was working in childcare i absolutely could. not. stand. squabbles over toys. the toy was immediately removed and the children were sent away to find something else to play with. i dont know where that falls on the line of whether or not its punitive. cause i'm still one of those that is constantly having to ask.

thats doesnt seem punitive to me so much as it just doesnt really equip with any skills towards learning how to share in the future
but..hey. do you see my kids ages?? i totally understand the "ok, i've had enough of this rediculous arguing" thing. thats why my siggy line reads the way it does. im breaking up fights, scripting for them, and setting darn timers all.day.long.
being a "peacemaker"

[Cook]

Originally Posted by mommy5

thats doesnt seem punitive to me so much as it just doesnt really equip with any skills towards learning how to share in the future
but..hey. do you see my kids ages?? i totally understand the "ok, i've had enough of this rediculous arguing" thing. thats why my siggy line reads the way it does. im breaking up fights, scripting for them, and setting darn timers all.day.long.
being a "peacemaker"

Yeah I'm thinking this makes sense as more setting the stage than punishment. Natural consequence than reaction.

Idk. I'm SO new at this. I was raised em in no particular order. At all. My parents are divorced. My mom single raised for a while until her mother moved in who spanked with spoons. My mom NEVER spanked but rather ruled through emotions- crying fits when I misbehaved. I was scared and slept in bed with her until I am not gonna admit. Not co-slept, was literally afraid to be alone. Probably 7ish? My step dad was abusive, so I moved in with my dad in my teen years- he was WAY more gbd and I totally love that about him and his now exwife. But by then I was so far gone I rebelled to everything.

All that leads to: My husband's family- nuclear. He was spanked- he still jokes that his mother couldn't count because she always doled out more than she'd promised. I love him. I want to make more people in the world like him because of how much I love and admire the man he is. But I can't shake the nagging feeling: The kids still misbehaved. Why is my focus on making them stop? Clearly, it can't be done. -Another part of what sent me down this particular road! Furthermore, as much as I started my parenting journey out of love for my husband, seeing what can happen when we hold kids to expectations like that scares me. I don't want them to be him anymore and we both agree on that. We want them to be who God wants them to be!

Idk. I don't even know what "good" punitive discipline looks like. But I know I have NO business spanking. I can't do that and still be loving minded (I'm sure yall understand that) and I have no idea how others do- AND being able to do so makes me wonder if they "shut something down" to get to that place emotionally.

My kids are so young too... I am so grateful for the statements on the approach in this stage. But it does look like inaction and feel like it at times to be honest, when you have no clear basis to form it on and those "supporting" you in daily life are unaware of accurate developmental expectations. In one breath I'm told not to get my son a label because he's too young and the other he's being told to sit still and be quiet in a totally difficult circumstance. I'm downloading some books and trying to get into the scripture references I've been finding. For me, right now, it's like being at an eye exam. Sometimes it makes perfect sense but at other moments it seems fuzzy and I'm unsure. But most "new" things are like that.

Idk. I can totally relate to questioning things- I LOVE this thread. I wanted to mention also that for me for sure, this was a process. I did positive parenting techniques for months before it started making sense about the importance of the relationship you must build on the front end. I've always been an active parent but now we do child directed play times each day etc. It wasn't that I didn't want to give my kids that time- But society as a whole places FAR more focus on the response aspect of parting- Getting control of your kids! I had no idea how crucial it was to put more energy into the relationship building in the "before behavior" style. I remember before I got that, one of our home visits the lady just looked like "Okay, you aren't ready for that yet" when I was asking how to word a specific rule. Even after I started getting her gist, it wasn't until the Christan aspect of it came into focus that I actually started feeling it really click. I say all that to say: just because one asks oddly specific questions on the wrong end, doesn't mean they don't get it- maybe they are just on their way

Those are great questions to ask yourself! I am constantly having to take a minute (or more literally I guess it would be a few seconds) to go over what impact my reaction will have with my 2 1/2 year old. After a while it does become second nature, and you start to see how a gentle reply/redirection/correction is not permissive, but rather addresses a situation in a way that fulfills your child's inner needs and doesn't shame them for whatever experimentation they were doing.

I like to use the word experiment when I think/talk about misbehaviors. Because really, from the child's perspective, that's exactly what they're doing: experimenting to see how their action will play out.

[Maggirayne]

Did this get stickied?

[COTK]

Maggirayne, I saw this because of your !

Crystal, you said we need to get to the point where we are the adult we want them to be......that is *such* a great thing to hold in our minds...

one thing that I want to learn to do is have amazing conversations with my dd during those teaching moments... how do I learn to do *THAT* without an example to see? Some of the conversations you've had with your kids that I've read in your writings just make me ... you are so incredibly skilled at breaking things down to their level, but not "dumbing" it down... is there a book I can read or something? I so long to be a wise teacher, to help her make sense of life...but I don't even understand most of life right now......

My inner voice speech I'm developing for when I am in a frustrating situation with her is getting longer and longer... so far I have,

"She's four!! She's just four. Four!!! She doesn't *know* everything I think she knows! She is just trying to communicate her needs, like a baby that cries for everything, only she has some words now. But she is still learning how to get her words, thoughts, and actions lined up right. I am, too and I'm 30 for goodness sake! What does she need right now? Relationship, relationship, relationship, relationship!!!"

Ok, that's the long version... the quick-get-my-blood-pressure-down-before-I-lose-it version would be,

"She's four!!! Relationship, relationship, relationship!!!"

(Thanks to this thread. )

[Amahoro]

I this thread

to learn the scripts...

[ArmsOfLove]

one thing that I want to learn to do is have amazing conversations with my dd during those teaching moments... how do I learn to do *THAT* without an example to see? Some of the conversations you've had with your kids that I've read in your writings just make me ... you are so incredibly skilled at breaking things down to their level, but not "dumbing" it down... is there a book I can read or something? I so long to be a wise teacher, to help her make sense of life...but I don't even understand most of life right now.

First, thank you for your kind words

As for how to know what to say . . . it really helps that I taught the Kindergarten class at the church where I learned a lot of what was to become the foundations for GBD I realized when you can figure out how to explain deep theological concepts, and big life concepts, to children then you can explain them to anyone. But getting there meant I tuned in to the very confused faces of children as I tried to explain those things. Lots of before I finally got a You should have seen the little boy who was saying his throat hurt when I asked if he was just a little hoarse? No, I mean, did he have a frog in his throat? I mean . . . does your throat hurt? "Oh, yes."

mostly I just think about what the basics of something end up being. And I try to tell it in a story-telling way. It also really helps that my oldest has autism because when you start out your mothering having to explain what a smile and a frown are you learn how to explain lots of things most people take for granted. And, as it turns out, that has allowed me to explain things to my children very early compared to when lots of children will pick things up. You might see if your library has some books on Social Stories in the special needs section--you can see lots of story telling and dialoguing broken down into very simple terms.

I also love, "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk"

hth

[mokamoto]

What an insightful post!!! Thank you!

[Domina]

As someone exploring the GBD mindset for the first time, I found this thread incredibly helpful. Agree it should be a sticky.

[mokamoto]

YES!!! Please make this a sticky!! It propogated so many lightbulb moments for me. I am not new to GBD, but have been struggling to overcome the punitive thinking I grew up with. DS and DD are coming into their more mature personalities and have strong wills. (I wonder where they get it from? LoL) In these new challenges, I keep coming back to the punitive or gentle question and then feel stressed bc when I use gentleness, my 5yo DS ignores me. I have lately been yelling a lot. I found too that the yelling sets a tone which can become a mood. I don't like this pattern but seemed stuck in it. The questions posed in the first post definitely caused "aha!" moments for me. I think I am now at a breakthrough!!! This explanation could really steer newbies in the right direction as a sticky!

[Virginia]

This thread has been so helpful. Thank you to everyone who has posted, asked questions, and shared stories

I was raised in a punitive household. It has affected me so.very.deeply. Even now, as I try to embrace a GBD mindset and shift my paradigm, I struggle greatly. It's so encouraging to come here and know that we are from all different walks of life, but we share such similar goals I'm incredibly thankful that I've found GCM before even having kids, and I think that stickying this thread is a fabulous idea

[ArmsOfLove]

Stickying

[GranolanRainbows]

You gave me the exact answer that I needed to a question that I was asking in prayer today. Thank you!!!

[Beauty4Ashes]

I really needed to read this. With my older two, I am struggling with how they are using their words, i.e. sassy tone of voice, disrespectful words, etc. I just want it to stop all ready. Then I remembered that I need to keep relationships in mind, not just trying to be right. Thanks everyone!